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#105717 - 05/22/04 02:29 AM toe kick
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
Toe kicks were an essential part of both early Shorin-ryu and Naha-te karate, but how they are used differ between free fighting and self-defense applications.

I stole this off the home page and was wondering if anyone employs this kick. We were taught this kick in of all places our San Jitsu Art which is more of a locking and grappling art. I wonder if people practice this much as most people wear shoes, and don't go much without them. However I live in the dessert and spend alot of time in Hawaii so am in sandals 95% of the time. I have never used the kick in a self defense situation and used it sparring once to the thigh of the opponent and he couldn't continue, I felt pretty bad as I didn't realize how well it worked. I spent a summer digging up sea shells with my big toe in the sand(especially wet sand) at the beach to stregthen the toes. So I was wondering if anyone else uses this big toe kick?

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#105718 - 05/22/04 03:18 AM Re: toe kick
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Hell yes, everytime I hear a lower grade being corrected "kick with the ball of your foot", "chmaber that kick", it makes me want to puke.

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#105719 - 05/22/04 06:13 AM Re: toe kick
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Lou Sensei,

In New England there is a large contingent of Uechi ryu and the toe kick is prevelant in their art, they train and use it.

In my Isshinryu our front kicks don't use the toe, rather the ball of the foot, or the heel, but then our front kicks in self defense are often used on the return from the kick too.

But I do use the toe kick, from my training in Tam Toy (et all other spellings), but that Chinese art doees it in boots, paralleling the shoes we normally wear. But those toe kicks are delivered somewhat differently from the karate version, including one variation where the kicking foot drags its toes across the floor to slingshot up from a different angle that otherwise a kick would use.

My main concern is to recongnize those who use toe kicks and work appropriate angles to keep away from them. It sure beats being on the receiving end.

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

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#105720 - 05/22/04 08:18 AM Re: toe kick
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Seen the toe kick before only on tapes and clipps, very impressive but it looks like it probably takes lots of conditioning. Can't see the real purpose in the toe kick when it's just as easy to pull your toes back and strike with the ball of your foot. Plus toes take a long time to heal if you smash them or hit something the wromg way, I bet some of the more expierenced MA here could tell some good toe stories.

[This message has been edited by schanne (edited 05-22-2004).]

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#105721 - 05/22/04 08:22 AM Re: toe kick
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Cop one and you will know the difference.

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#105722 - 05/22/04 08:25 AM Re: toe kick
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joesixpack:
Cop one and you will know the difference.[/QUOTE]

Don't understand your post "cop one"?

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#105723 - 05/22/04 08:28 AM Re: toe kick
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joesixpack:
Cop one and you will know the difference.[/QUOTE]

Joe, do you mean get hit by a toe kick, sorry wasn't thinking. Always trying to learn more about the arts so I'm going to practice the "toe kick" but please explain how to throw the kick with more detail.
Thank you.

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#105724 - 05/22/04 01:05 PM Re: toe kick
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I don't know if you've been following Chris Caille's articles on the toe kick. If not go and read them, they're very informative.

There isn't one version there are a number. Some kick with the kuckle of the big toe, others with the tips of the toes. The manner in which the Uechi do it is different from those in the Matsubayshi ryu are too. You can't just safely do it, it takes time to warm up to it.

The Uechi folks do spend a lot of time conditioning them with impact training, even including kicking old tires.

I don't recommend trying to do it without correct instruction. Likewise the Chinese toe kick with the boots (or heavy shoes) requires a difference in technique.

The obvious advantage of the toe kick is the force of the kick is placed in a smaller portion of the attackers body, causing more intense pain.

As for if it's worth the time, that remains the contention between different styles doesn't it.

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

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#105725 - 05/22/04 02:03 PM Re: toe kick
senseilou Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2082
Loc: Glendale, Az.
including one variation where the kicking foot drags its toes across the floor to slingshot up from a different angle that otherwise a kick would use.

This is the version of the kick that we employ. For those who haven't tried them, they work really well, especially to the thigh. It seems to almost paralyze the leg, and you feel like its been hit with a sledge hammer.


[This message has been edited by senseilou (edited 05-22-2004).]

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#105726 - 05/22/04 04:33 PM Re: toe kick
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
I'am currently practiceing this kick but can not get my toes to squeeze toghter to form the triangle. any tips

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