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#105490 - 04/12/04 03:31 PM Favourite Shotokan Kata?
ShotokanGuy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Port McNeill, British Columbia...
Hey guys, I just registered and I figure'd I'd ask what katas the shotokan karate practitioners here like. My favourite would have to be kanku sho. love those jumps!

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#105491 - 04/12/04 08:07 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
How can't you say Unsu?

Wow white belts and kids parents with this kata.

Confuse yourself for days working out applications.

Make an arse of yourself with the spinning crescent/back kick.

At least it has mawashi ukes.

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#105492 - 04/28/04 01:56 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
Lokkan-Do Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Bassai Dai

Because I am still puzzled at coming up with applications.

I make out the first two movements as a defense against a "two hand" wrist grab and a strike.
I make out the wrist lock combine with the stamp.

After that, I'm lost.

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#105493 - 04/28/04 02:03 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
WADO Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 900
Loc: denver co usa
Favorite as in most fun or best training. Nihanchi isn't that the one that Funakoshi practiced for his first five years. He started your style why not follow his example?

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#105494 - 04/28/04 04:55 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Shoto...

I have an old thread on Bunkai here....have a look

even Dr K liked it...(he LIKED something you say?)
http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000024.html

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#105495 - 04/30/04 06:34 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
reaperblack Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 558
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.

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#105496 - 05/10/04 12:20 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by reaperblack:
Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.[/QUOTE]

Im guessing thats Fact. Couldnt be oppinion could it

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#105497 - 05/20/04 09:20 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata?
Lokkan-Do Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
What about shorinji?

They are an authentic form of Chinese hand and they do their forms differently from shorin ryu.

The forms in Korean arts are simular to shorin ry, shorinji, shotokan too. Look at Tang Soo Do.

Which one is more watered down or evolved from the original?

[This message has been edited by Lokkan-Do (edited 05-20-2004).]

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#105498 - 08/22/05 10:37 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
Shotokan_Nut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 43
Loc: Liverpool, England
i enjoy all katas but my preference would have to be heian godan. Even though im only a 9th Kyu in Shotokan (orange belt) i know everything up to the 1st Kyu Kata's (even bassai dai). I Just like godan because of the powerful strikes utilized
_________________________
"There Are Many Imitations, But Only One Shotokan" Gichin Funakoshi

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#105499 - 08/22/05 11:07 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Shotokan_Nut]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Hmm favorite... probably would have to be Bassai Dai and Kanku dai. I also really like nijushiho and Gankaku
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#105500 - 08/22/05 11:11 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Chatan1979]
Shotokan_Nut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 43
Loc: Liverpool, England
What Dan Are You 4th?
_________________________
"There Are Many Imitations, But Only One Shotokan" Gichin Funakoshi

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#105501 - 08/23/05 05:39 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: WADO]
sumrandom Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Western Australia
you said it Wado. we call them tekki, but the naihanchi/tekki kata are my faves.

i can't stand heian nidan, don't know why, i just have a disliking for it...

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#105502 - 08/23/05 08:22 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Shotokan_Nut]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Quote:

What Dan Are You 4th?



2nd
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#105503 - 08/23/05 06:00 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: WADO]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Quote:

Favorite as in most fun or best training. Nihanchi isn't that the one that Funakoshi practiced for his first five years. He started your style why not follow his example?




It was 9 years actually!!!

As for me my favourite tends to be the one that I've recently discovered a new application from.
Kanku dai I like, (good fighting kata) Empi and Hangetsu, also.
Unsu is probably the most flashy what with that jump type somersaulty, thing.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#105504 - 08/24/05 09:44 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

jump type somersaulty, thing




In all my years of training I've never heard of this technique.....Does it involve Chi?????
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#105505 - 08/24/05 09:59 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
What's up? Don't you use technical expressions like this where you train?
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#105506 - 08/24/05 10:14 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK


My Dad knows the japanese for "Flying Groin Bite", I can't for the life of me remember it though!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#105507 - 08/24/05 10:23 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
You can't remember how to say it or do it?
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#105508 - 08/24/05 10:44 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I meant say it....but I can't say its a technique I've ever tried!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#105509 - 08/24/05 10:58 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: ShotokanGuy]
naraebon Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vienna, Austria

I love this question so much ...


dislikes: Jion, Jitte, Jiin, Heian Sandan, all of this kind

just so heavy and stompy and ...


favorites: Empi, Kanku Dai, Nijushiho


I love Nijushiho (except for the yoko geri)


Nara Ebon

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#105510 - 08/24/05 12:43 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: naraebon]
webby Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 147
Loc: newton abbot devon
hien nidan is my favorite hien kata!

as for dan katas i like- jion,nijushio,soshin,hangets,empi and kankudi

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#105511 - 09/08/05 03:44 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: ShotokanGuy]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
I would have to say probably Bassai Dai with Jion close behind.
_________________________
Their smiles can win even the hearts of little children; their anger can make a tiger crouch in fear.
-A True Martial Artist

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#105512 - 09/08/05 03:52 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: reaperblack]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
Quote:

Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.




As far as i know shorin ryu is a softer form of karate than shotokan and to say that the katas are watered down is stupid. I've watched many people of different forms of karate perform say Bassai Dai and there is very little difference. Each form of karate makes its own modifications to katas and to say that the shotokan versions are watered down is just stupid because there are many applications to the shotokan versions. Bassai Dai for instance is a powerful kata in any form of karate and to say that its watered down in any form is just stupid in itself.
_________________________
Their smiles can win even the hearts of little children; their anger can make a tiger crouch in fear.
-A True Martial Artist

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#105513 - 10/19/05 08:26 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: shotokanwarrior19]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.




As far as i know shorin ryu is a softer form of karate than shotokan and to say that the katas are watered down is stupid. I've watched many people of different forms of karate perform say Bassai Dai and there is very little difference. Each form of karate makes its own modifications to katas and to say that the shotokan versions are watered down is just stupid because there are many applications to the shotokan versions. Bassai Dai for instance is a powerful kata in any form of karate and to say that its watered down in any form is just stupid in itself.




Nakayama sensei himself stated that after WWII the instructors had forgotten many movements from the katas and had to pool and collate their knowledge. I would say that watering down is probably not the right word for what's happened to kata, but they have been messed with, and that's not good. I came across some videos on the net of 1920's JKA kata footage which was very good to watch. You will not really notice any major difference in the kata performance other than maybe the timing of some movements. However the real changes occured when Funakoshis karate left Okinawa. The Japanese did change alot in order to form the Shotokan we have today, and unfortunately they never bothered to learn or were not shown the applications of the movements themselves. Shotokan groups should make more emphasis on bunkai - in fact, many people are now doing this and asking questions instead of just mindlessly doing the moves which is very good for an improvement in the state and quality of the Shotokan praticed today.

I do not think reaperblacks comments are wrong - I have seen many articles extolling the virtues of looking to judo and kung-fu for kata apps and do you know what? It's very enlightening, so do it! The bunkai is hidden for sure and that's the fault of the Japanese instructors. Whilst this makes the practice of the kata largely ineffective as a training tool it has the bonus of MAKING you search for the meaning - yes you have to do some homework! This legacy should definately be used as a tool for your personal self development and used to add an exciting element of mystery to your training. I hope that one day, when we know alot more than we do now about the kata bunkai, somebody can write an enormous book on it all and we can teach the kata with proper understanding of it's purpose.

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#105514 - 10/20/05 07:29 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Sorry, I forgot to add my favourite kata at the bottom - it's Chinte, because I like ripping peoples eyes out.

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#105515 - 11/11/05 01:37 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: ShotokanGuy]
vince Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4
Here are some good Kata video clips.

http://www.vsocial.com/video/?l=241

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#105516 - 11/21/05 07:05 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
steelwater Offline
On the Ansatsuken installment-plan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 222
Quote:

Bassai Dai

Because I am still puzzled at coming up with applications.

I make out the first two movements as a defense against a "two hand" wrist grab and a strike.
I make out the wrist lock combine with the stamp.

After that, I'm lost.




At a seminar I attended, it was explained that movement was an arm break technique in response to a one handed wrist grab. I've seen the one you've come up with also, I just hope that no one in their right mind would grab someone's wrist with both hands in a fight. If someone did that to me, I wouldn't even use a "technique", I'd just pound them in the face with my free hand, lol.

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