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#105510 - 08/24/05 12:43 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: naraebon]
webby Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 147
Loc: newton abbot devon
hien nidan is my favorite hien kata!

as for dan katas i like- jion,nijushio,soshin,hangets,empi and kankudi

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#105511 - 09/08/05 03:44 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: ShotokanGuy]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
I would have to say probably Bassai Dai with Jion close behind.
_________________________
Their smiles can win even the hearts of little children; their anger can make a tiger crouch in fear.
-A True Martial Artist

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#105512 - 09/08/05 03:52 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: reaperblack]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
Quote:

Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.




As far as i know shorin ryu is a softer form of karate than shotokan and to say that the katas are watered down is stupid. I've watched many people of different forms of karate perform say Bassai Dai and there is very little difference. Each form of karate makes its own modifications to katas and to say that the shotokan versions are watered down is just stupid because there are many applications to the shotokan versions. Bassai Dai for instance is a powerful kata in any form of karate and to say that its watered down in any form is just stupid in itself.
_________________________
Their smiles can win even the hearts of little children; their anger can make a tiger crouch in fear.
-A True Martial Artist

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#105513 - 10/19/05 08:26 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: shotokanwarrior19]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

Shotokan forms have been too watered down to find the bunkai, if you wish to find the true meaning of your forms you need only watch a shorin ryu karateka do them. Or do some tae chi, or shoalin kung fu and maybe you will recognize the movements.




As far as i know shorin ryu is a softer form of karate than shotokan and to say that the katas are watered down is stupid. I've watched many people of different forms of karate perform say Bassai Dai and there is very little difference. Each form of karate makes its own modifications to katas and to say that the shotokan versions are watered down is just stupid because there are many applications to the shotokan versions. Bassai Dai for instance is a powerful kata in any form of karate and to say that its watered down in any form is just stupid in itself.




Nakayama sensei himself stated that after WWII the instructors had forgotten many movements from the katas and had to pool and collate their knowledge. I would say that watering down is probably not the right word for what's happened to kata, but they have been messed with, and that's not good. I came across some videos on the net of 1920's JKA kata footage which was very good to watch. You will not really notice any major difference in the kata performance other than maybe the timing of some movements. However the real changes occured when Funakoshis karate left Okinawa. The Japanese did change alot in order to form the Shotokan we have today, and unfortunately they never bothered to learn or were not shown the applications of the movements themselves. Shotokan groups should make more emphasis on bunkai - in fact, many people are now doing this and asking questions instead of just mindlessly doing the moves which is very good for an improvement in the state and quality of the Shotokan praticed today.

I do not think reaperblacks comments are wrong - I have seen many articles extolling the virtues of looking to judo and kung-fu for kata apps and do you know what? It's very enlightening, so do it! The bunkai is hidden for sure and that's the fault of the Japanese instructors. Whilst this makes the practice of the kata largely ineffective as a training tool it has the bonus of MAKING you search for the meaning - yes you have to do some homework! This legacy should definately be used as a tool for your personal self development and used to add an exciting element of mystery to your training. I hope that one day, when we know alot more than we do now about the kata bunkai, somebody can write an enormous book on it all and we can teach the kata with proper understanding of it's purpose.

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#105514 - 10/20/05 07:29 AM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Sorry, I forgot to add my favourite kata at the bottom - it's Chinte, because I like ripping peoples eyes out.

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#105515 - 11/11/05 01:37 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: ShotokanGuy]
vince Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4
Here are some good Kata video clips.

http://www.vsocial.com/video/?l=241

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#105516 - 11/21/05 07:05 PM Re: Favourite Shotokan Kata? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
steelwater Offline
On the Ansatsuken installment-plan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 222
Quote:

Bassai Dai

Because I am still puzzled at coming up with applications.

I make out the first two movements as a defense against a "two hand" wrist grab and a strike.
I make out the wrist lock combine with the stamp.

After that, I'm lost.




At a seminar I attended, it was explained that movement was an arm break technique in response to a one handed wrist grab. I've seen the one you've come up with also, I just hope that no one in their right mind would grab someone's wrist with both hands in a fight. If someone did that to me, I wouldn't even use a "technique", I'd just pound them in the face with my free hand, lol.

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