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#105163 - 09/19/03 06:02 PM Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Site provided by the Shotokan Karate-Jitsu Academy.
http://www.karatejitsu.com/katas.html

-Shotokan

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#105164 - 10/07/03 02:41 PM Re: Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


Notice how that style of Shotokan looks nothing like most modern Shotokan? That is what Shuri Te is like for the reals. That "Karate-Do Kyohan" stuff is crap for kids and P.E..

Hey wait-a-minute that isn't Funakoshi's first book "Karate Jutsu". Nevermind.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Krunkenstein (edited 10-07-2003).]

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#105165 - 10/08/03 03:22 PM Re: Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Dr. K.,

I belive it is a vast over-simplification to qualify that Shotokan is just for kids and PE. I'm not a Shotokan stylist, but have had enough trianing with some that I believe it is very bad focus to simply write their efforts off.

Regardless the original texts by Funakoshi Ginchin were describing the art he transmitted originally from Okinawa (hence the modern Karate Jutsu terminology).

As his followers in Japan (with his acceptance and his son's support too) took their 'Shotokan', 'Shotokai', JKA in different directions, divorced from the Okinawan origins, it doesn't make their art less effective, just very different.

In fact a competent technician can do as much with a reverse punch as anyone can do with any other technique.

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu www.funkydragon.com/bushi

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#105166 - 10/08/03 03:26 PM Re: Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Dr. K.,

I belive it is a vast over-simplification to qualify that Shotokan is just for kids and PE. I'm not a Shotokan stylist, but have had enough trianing with some that I believe it is very bad focus to simply write their efforts off.

Regardless the original texts by Funakoshi Ginchin were describing the art he transmitted originally from Okinawa (hence the modern Karate Jutsu terminology).

As his followers in Japan (with his acceptance and his son's support too) took their 'Shotokan', 'Shotokai', JKA in different directions, divorced from the Okinawan origins, it doesn't make their art less effective, just very different.

In fact a competent technician can do as much with a reverse punch as anyone can do with any other technique.

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu www.funkydragon.com/bushi

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#105167 - 10/08/03 06:49 PM Re: Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Victor Smith:
Dr. K.,

I belive it is a vast over-simplification to qualify that Shotokan is just for kids and PE. I'm not a Shotokan stylist, but have had enough trianing with some that I believe it is very bad focus to simply write their efforts off.

Regardless the original texts by Funakoshi Ginchin were describing the art he transmitted originally from Okinawa (hence the modern Karate Jutsu terminology).


In fact a competent technician can do as much with a reverse punch as anyone can do with any other technique.

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu www.funkydragon.com/bushi
[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong. All that hard sparring and training and the 28 kata or so practiced by Shotokan stylists makes them some of the best Japanese BuDO-ka out there. You being an Isshin stylist understand the need for K.I.S.S.. Most Japanese karate is complicated and regimented. This makes for cookie cutter practitioners, with enduring journeyman skills. No creativity and no Okinawan "tailor-fit" ti.

I tend to think of Isshin as Shotokan if it were done right. Very direct, and straight to the point. Shotokan and other Japanese styles are also lacking in kobudo techs. This adds a 'yudansha' level of understanding to your "gyaku-tsuki", which btw is not real Okinawan karate technique, just beginner striking and kumite stuff. You know this man!

Nishiyama and others after reaching BB in Shotokan, went to train in China and Okinawa. When they broke away from the JKA, they introduced a "modernized" Shotokan which is ironic because in actuality they were reintroducing those techs and principles omitted from Funakoshi's original karate. Talk about reverse engineering!

It is essential for all Japanese practitioners to go back to the essence in order for them to understand what made Okinawan karate an effective SD art. Heck, Itosu and others showed what real karate could do to even highly trained old-school Kodokan Judo/JJ guys.

So we can agree to disagree. Anyway, have you written any articles lately which deal with the older vs. newer fist forms and punching methods? I remember our brief correspondence concerning the "old-fist" form that is seen in "KarateJutsu" and styles such as Matsumura Orthodox.

Sincerely,
Me



[This message has been edited by Dr. Krunkenstein (edited 10-08-2003).]

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#105168 - 10/08/03 08:33 PM Re: Kata Application for Karate from Karate-Jitsu
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Dr. K.

My point about Shotokan is in reality it all comes down to a technique, and I repect any properly executed technique not to be a technique snob.

I don't equate Isshinryu with Shotokan. After 30 years in Isshinryu, and having spent 10 years studing under a very unconventional Indonesian Shotokan instructor (whose father trained under Funakoshi) I have a very sharp respect for those differences. Of course it wasn't JKA, but then nothing is anything else either.

In that version of 'Shotokan', your simple system, there are likely several thousand bunkai formally taught at the Dan level. Perhaps JKA is very different, but its the same art.

As for what I see in Isshinryu, one of my instructors shared a minor part of his knowledge with me and my students over the last 8 or so years of his life, and from that I've documented over 800 applications from Isshinryu's 8 kata, irrespective of my own studies.

Everything is just what they are, good or bad, simple or complex, in the end its what you do with what you have.

As for articles, I'm trying to find a way to express the 25 years I've been training youth in one. And for the older fist formation, I have not found any more information on it. You either use it or not. From my Shotokan instructor, the system at advanced levels shifted into that fist exclusively.

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

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