I think it accurate to believe how many Naihanchi (Nihanchi, Naifanchi, et.al.) kata are practiced depends on the lineage of the system.

The Kiyan lineage was just Nihanchi kata (oftimes called Nihanchi Shodan), where Motobu did teach Nichanchi Sho and Ni Dan. And the Itosu lineage (Mabuni and Funakoshi too) are using 3 Nihanchi (Sho-Ni-San).

They obviously can be linked together, or Nihanchi (shodan) can be run multiple times non-stop for similar effect (5-10-20?).;

The lateral movement of Nihanchi suggests in my mind that it is really a training tool for Chinto, Nijushiho and Gojushiho (in all variations and spellings) with their lateral movement parallels.

I would most strongly belive in the older Chinese formula to training, when you've built the tool, replace it with a new tool.

Such as Chinto. Nihanchi movement potential lays the groundwork for Chinto (Kiyan style in my mind) even to the turning from side to side as preparation for the Chinto Spin.

If the original Chinese concepts were correct the goal of Nihanchi ought to be to train past it and work on something more serious.

Quite a different concept than many suggest.

But then there were Okinawan's that did only one or two kata, and those kata weren't Pinan or Nihanchi for the most part. They were much more complex and challenging.

Of course it's where to you want your art to go, to be able to drop somebody with Nihanchi technique or to be able to drop somebody with Gojushiho technique... or I add softly, to be able to drop somebody with anything you can do....

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

So I am part of the Itosu line, and yes we teach three forms of naihanchi. And yes we practise them laterally, but we are taught that only some of the aplications are lateral, the iron horse is meant to be a diagonal moving stance.

I only know the Nidan version, and while I hated it as a kyu, it's become apparent now that it's the densest kata in the Isshinryu system for bunkai, and an excellent primer for close-in fighting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
How many Nihanshi kata do people practice. I have seen 3, yet am told there were only 2. I have also seen just one that incorporates all 3. Dr. K should have a thought on this.Of the 3 that I learned, and I understand there is no 3, Nihanshi Nidan seems to me to offer the least. Nihanshi Sandan(if there is such a thing)I really enjoyed, so with my luck that is not the real thing. When training with Chosei Motobu Sensei he only did Nihanshi Shodan and Nidan, but then put both of them together, which makes a real nice kata and is really good for stamina as well.[/QUOTE]

Originally there was probably one long one or just the first version (Shodan) called naifuanchi/naihanchi. I know that Itosu formulated Sandan, which btw is a very good kata. Much more advanced in execution, and it includes several multiple strike-lock-strike-control-lock/strike scenarios. I think its a better "looking" kata to watch, too.

I tend to believe that the Naihanchi Matsumura's students learned was one long form that included elements of Shodan-Nidan. In the Seito Shorin system only Shodan and Nidan are required for ranking, but we learn all three because Soken thought that it was a very relevant kata. He learned it when he trained with Chibana, and along with Pinan Yondan and Godan saw it as a good additional form or supplementary form. I know I would definitely teach it (Naihanchi Sandan) at the Shodan level. Too much tuite to ignore.

You guys on this forum are the best. I'm glad the Jeet Kun Don't guys diss the classical mess. It keeps those less qualified and trained "marticians" out of the real discussions. Please keep up the good kata posts. They really make my day!

Have a wonderful week!

I like Sandan the best. Choc a block with applications. I just wished we used our camcorder more to actually record some of the stuff we come up with. We have some gems, but we have lost some gems too.

I know the Motubu story is a myth, but I nearly think you could have a system almost based on naifaunchin.

Naihanchi 0^/n5 j00!!!1

I like the Motobu Ryu (Choki, not Choyu). The tape I have of the system contains Shodan, Nidan, and the 12 True Fighting Methods. Good stuff. Quite a bit of the drills obviously of Naihanchi.

One thing that puzzles me on this kata:

I had a co-worker who was 1st dan in TSD, and when we compared katas, he did some-
thing he couldn't explain and I don't understand.

There's 2 spots in the kata where my fist rest underneath the other elbow, and that forearm in vertical. I have several bunkai for that.

His fist was butted up against the elbow, and he claimed that was a reinforced block.
But if you're going to reinforce a block, wouldn't you reinforce the WEAKEST point (wrist/hand) and not the strongest? Any TSD or others that can explain?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ironfoot:
One thing that puzzles me on this kata:

I had a co-worker who was 1st dan in TSD, and when we compared katas, he did some-
thing he couldn't explain and I don't understand.

There's 2 spots in the kata where my fist rest underneath the other elbow, and that forearm in vertical. I have several bunkai for that.

His fist was butted up against the elbow, and he claimed that was a reinforced block.
But if you're going to reinforce a block, wouldn't you reinforce the WEAKEST point (wrist/hand) and not the strongest? Any TSD or others that can explain?[/QUOTE]

This will allow you to change the polarity of the striking hand (the one on top).

Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
This will allow you to change the polarity of the striking hand (the one on top).

Scott[/QUOTE]

OK Scott

Explain the polarity thing.

I just know we're going to run into trouble on this one!
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

Oh good let me add to the confusion, Another interpretation would be to point out where you can touch to do a fast iron shirt move. In other words by touching at this point you can stop the pain from a wrist lock for a moment.

Alan