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#104528 - 06/17/01 06:50 PM Hangetsu Kata
Ronin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 22
Loc: Australia
Does anyone have any information on the Shotokan kata Hangetsu? How did it become a Shotokan Kata?

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#104529 - 06/19/01 10:32 PM Re: Hangetsu Kata
the8th_light Offline
Devon Smith
Newbie

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 6
Loc: Michigan, USA
While I can't comment on accuracy (because I am not familiar with this kata), the following link might be useful.
http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/kata/hangetsu.html

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#104530 - 07/10/01 03:15 PM Re: Hangetsu Kata
John Anthony Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 28
Loc: Pottstown, PA, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ronin:
Does anyone have any information on the Shotokan kata Hangetsu? How did it become a Shotokan Kata?[/QUOTE]

It's my understanding that Hangetsu is the Japanese name for the Seisan kata, a very old kata numerous versions of which are practiced by a wide variety of Okinawan styles. I would think that Funakoshi learned the kata from one of his teachers and took it with him to Japan.

--JA

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#104531 - 07/12/01 09:22 AM Re: Hangetsu Kata
Kevinfreestone Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 6
Loc: england
Indeed Hangetsu is the Shotokan version of Seisan. It was one of the original 15 (or 14 I can't quite remember), Kata taught by Funakoshi. You can tell this as Wado do Seisan and they only do the original 15 that Funikoshi first took with him from Okinawa. Ohtsuka left Funakoshi before the other Shotokan kata were introduced to the Japanese mainland by, I think, Yoshitaka Funakoshi. He was probably taught this kata by Itosu Ankoh who would have been taught it by Bushi Matsumura. Seisan, so Pat Mckarthy once told me, is a Lion Kung Fu form. (please excuse any spelling errors on names as it's not my strong point).

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#104532 - 08/14/01 02:44 AM Re: Hangetsu Kata
ShotoBo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Australia
Hi Ronin,
You asked:
"Does anyone have any information on the Shotokan kata Hangetsu? How did it become a Shotokan Kata?"

I am reearching this very topic at the moment. So far it appears to be from the Tomari area passed down to Chojun Oshiro via Iha. Oshiro was Gigo Funakoshi's instructor on Okinawa and Funakoshi Gichin sent his son back to Okinawa a couple of times to learn more kata.

The stance used was the front stance as taught by Funakoshi Gichin. Gigo I believe taught the kata out of fudo-dachi as was his wont and the Motoburyu and another Okinawan Kempo style teach it using naihanchi/kiba dachi.

The latest stance is incomprehensible to me and many other as it appears that a marriage of convenience between the front stance and the sanchin-dachi has been created for reasons unknown. Truly a monstrosity that serves no useful purpose, despite the number of defensive evidence used by many to support its existence.

Currently, I practise it as it is described in Karate-Do kyohan out of front stance. I use Choji dachi, fudo dachi and neko ashi dachi as well as some ofd-fashioned stepping and sliding : ) I retain the use of the name Seishan to distinguish it from Hangetsu and Seisan.

Regards,
Bob McMahon

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#104533 - 08/20/01 11:20 AM Re: Hangetsu Kata
mikeflanagan2 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
Hi Bob

You said (regarding Seishan):

>I use Choji dachi, fudo dachi and neko ashi >dachi as well as some ofd-fashioned stepping >and sliding : )

Where does the stepping and sliding come from in the version that you're doing? Could you describe them both?

Thanks,

Mike

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#104534 - 08/20/01 05:32 PM Re: Hangetsu Kata
ShotoBo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Australia
Hi Mike,

In technique #'s, you step with the front foot and slide the back foot up.

7. Using the left leg as a pivot, step to the right with the right foot and perform a right hand inside block in front stance. Retract the right hand and at the same time punch with the left. Retract the left hand while simultaneously punching with the right.

8. Turn to the left (actually turning 180 degrees to face in the opposite direction) and with a slight feeling of yori-ashi perform a left hand inside block. Retract the left hand while punching with the right. Retract the right hand while punching with the left.

9. Transfer the right foot 90 degrees to the right and performing a slight yori-ashi, perform a right hand inside block. Retract the right hand while simultaneously punching with the left. Retract the left hand while
simultaneously punching with the right.

Regards,
Bob

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#104535 - 08/20/01 09:30 PM Re: Hangetsu Kata
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Have you looked at the Sehshan by Funakoshi from his early book "Karate Jutsu" Translated by John Teramoto. This version goes back to the 1920's.

This kata Sehshan is what was transformed into Hangetsu in later years by Funakoshi and the JKA.

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

Sehshan Kata

There are 41 steps in all, Count out the steps in sets from one to ten, repeating as needed until completion of the kata. Required time about two minutes.

After bowing in heisoku-dachi stand in yoi posture with the hands in fists and the feet opened in hachiji-dachi.

1. With the left hand and foot moving together, step into Line 2 with a motion describing a semicircular path to the right, and block with the left hand (the back of the fist is up) while pulling the right fist to the hip.
2. Simultaneously retract the left fist and extend the right fist in a punch.
3. Moving the right hand and foot in a semi-circular path together, step forward along Line 2 (this is the exact oposite of 1).
4. Simultaneously retract the right fist and extend the left fist in a punch.
5. Repeat the exact same motion as 1 along the same line.
6. Simultaneously retract the left fist and extend the right fist in a punch.
7. Pull both fists in front of the chest and spread the elbows
(the fists are ippon-ken, and the backs of the fists face upwards: refer to Fig. 185).
8. Extend both fists straight ahead, shoulders width apart.
9. Spread both hands with the thumbs and fingers together by raising the elbows to shoulder level on either side of the head, with the elbows bent and the forearms parallel.
10. From that position, lower the arms and extend them while extending the upper body (the palms of the hands face the thighs).
11. Step forward with the right foot ad at the same time pivot on the left leg to turn and face in the opposite direction taking the posture shown in the figure.
12. Maintain the exact posture but turn the right hand over to the left and have a feeling of pulling down slightly in front of the body.
13. Take a step forward along the same line (Line 2) with the right foot and at the same time with the right hand in front of the left shoulder and the left hand just outside the right elbow, pull both hands apart (taking a posture that is the mirror image of Fig. 186).
14. Maintain the same posture and turn the hand over.
15. Step forward along the same line with the left foot and at the same time take the posture shown in Fig 186.
16. Turn the right hand over.
17. Using the left leg as a pivot, step to the right with the right foot and take a right hand blocking posture (refer to Koshokun Fig. 143). (Right Side Block Victor)
18. Retract the right hand and at the same time punch with the left.
19. Retract the left hand while simultaneously punching with the right. (After the kata has been sufficiently memorized, these two movements should be made as one continuous movement.)
20. Turn to the left (actually turning 180 degrees to face in the opposite direction) and with a slight feeling of yoriashi take a left hand blocking posture (refer to Koshokun Fig. 141). (Left Side Block Victor)
21. Retract the left hand while punching with the right.
22. Retract the right hand while punching with the left (here
again, these punches should later be done continuously).
23. Transfer the right foot onto Line 2 and performing slight yoriashi take a right hand blocking posture (refer to Pin'an
Shodan Fig. 50).
24. Retarct the right hand while simultaneously punching with the left.
25. Retract the left hand while simultaneously punching with the right (later to be performed continuously).
26. Along the same line pull both hands to the right hip before taking the left hand and swinging it high and to the rear, while at the same time turning and raising the left knee as high as possible, then bring the left fist down in urate (the eyes are fixed looking just beyond the fist).
27. Maintaining the posture of the upper body, unobtrusively slip the right foot over the left, placing it right beside the other.
28. Kick with the left foot toward the tip of the left hand.
29. Bend the left arm halfway, bringing the fist in front of the left shoulder before turning it so that the back of the fist faces upward and immediately thrusting it forward with yoriashi.
30. Immediately retract the left fist and attack with the right.
31. Pull the right fist back to the hip and at the same time make an upper level block with the left arm (this is the same posture that in Pin'an Shodan Fig. 54 except that here the leg is bent).
32. Turn to look to the rear while at the same time bringing the right leg and arm around as high as possible and then striking with urate (the fist should be at mid level; this is opposite of 26).
33. Slip the left foot over and place it down next to the right.
34. As soon as the foot is placed kick with the right foot towards the tip of the right hand.
35. Bending the right arm in half in front of the body immediately twist the fist so that the back is facing up and thrust
together with yoriashi.
36. Retract the right hand and punch simultaneously with the left.
37. Retract the left hand and simultaneously make an upper level
block with the right.
38. Look to the rear and move the left leg and arm together in a strike.
39. Kick the left hand with the right foot in a crescent kick (mikazuki-keri).
40. Retract the left hand and punch with the right.
41. Immediately pull the left foot back, bending both knees and supporting the body on the right leg, and place both hands above
theleft kneecap in a block against a kick. At yame, return to the original posture to conclude the kata.

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#104536 - 08/21/01 08:53 AM Re: Hangetsu Kata
mikeflanagan2 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
Hi Bob

Thanks. It looks like you're doing the ashi- and tai-sabaki the same (or similar) as in PM's version. Which is what I thought, just wanted to be sure.

Mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShotoBo:
Hi Mike,

In technique #'s, you step with the front foot and slide the back foot up.

7. Using the left leg as a pivot, step to the right with the right foot and perform a right hand inside block in front stance. Retract the right hand and at the same time punch with the left. Retract the left hand while simultaneously punching with the right.

8. Turn to the left (actually turning 180 degrees to face in the opposite direction) and with a slight feeling of yori-ashi perform a left hand inside block. Retract the left hand while punching with the right. Retract the right hand while punching with the left.

9. Transfer the right foot 90 degrees to the right and performing a slight yori-ashi, perform a right hand inside block. Retract the right hand while simultaneously punching with the left. Retract the left hand while
simultaneously punching with the right.

Regards,
Bob
[/QUOTE]

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#104537 - 08/22/01 03:27 AM Re: Hangetsu Kata
ShotoBo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Australia
Hi Victor,

So there is no confusion or misunderstanding, instead of retyping all of the instructions for those moves I quoted in my post, I just overlaid the changes that I learned which happens to match the version in Oshima's translation of Karate-Do Kyohan.
The version I learned is the one Oshima refers to in foot notes when he notes the 'new' changes of stance.
Regards,
Bob

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