RougeWarrior You sound like the complete MA to me just as the Samuria carried the Katana. You are trained to use the approipate weapon at the approipate range. One of the things that I am impressed about Steven Sengal is that he is well trained in the use of the auto pistol and Aikido among other arts.

Kata as a self defense it can't do it by itself but with a complete training regiment it is a road map to enlightenment, Chi strikes & interanal health thru breathing properly ect..

You young guys who now stress fighting and I have plenty of friends that thought like that, now they are older still trying to hold on to their youthful talents. But as you get older things change. I still train but not to be a Champion or win street fights, but to live a healthy life, I'm satisfied, with where I am in life. You don't want to worry yourself that U could have been a Contender.

Now as I mentioned in another thread I don't do the pretty techniques or long combinations anymore, I'm more precise and direct. A guy bobbing and weaving I don't try to time his head, his body not moving especially his testicle their just swing in the wind. I'll punch at the head but thats not what I'm aiming for.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 04-26-2005).]

I could have been a contender. Ha [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] thanks brando, love the quote. Im not totally concerened with street fights, Competition fighting, ECT. I personaly want to fight in the ufc by the age of 30 and I am now 27. Martial arts have been my life from the early age of 6 and has been my first love. Training traditionaly has always been first on my list but like I have said its just good to train for the street if it ever comes rearing its ugly head. Growing up in the community that I did and being hispanic it was rough and in high school it was important that I focus my training for the real thing and not just for competition or for belts. That whole way of thinking went away when I got in a fight at school because I was wearing a type of red that some gang had made their own. I now give instruction to those who cannot defend them self's. Mostly I want to give the picked on kid a chance to fight back if he is sick of being the butt of someone's joke. Now I know that, that last sentence is promoting fighting with today's youth but its far from. Teaching the youth to properly fight and protect themself's help's them feel like they belong and that the bullies that they come across in school, life, what ever! Cannot relly affect them. But if one of them wants to place their hands on them then they can give the jerk what for! Giving these kids someone to talk too and also giving them someone to look up to is my goal. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

CxT wrote - A gun is a far better weapon--more effective, can be used with less physically intense training, size "really" does not matter a little kid or the smallest women can kill the biggest baddist guy.

My reply - Yeah but theres a time and place for everything. Do you think that the police depts. and Military teach hand to hand/self defense tactics because they don't work.

They teach it because even with a knife,grenades and rifle you will sometimes be without ammo or the guys in too close for a gun. Then all you have is wit and self defense skills.

You always will have your training with you, not so with a gun. Unless you strapped down in the showers or in a public bath room and a guy bear hugs you while his buddy tries to slugs you. It happen to me that way, my Beretta 40 did me no good, nor my Benchmade knife, only my SD skills brought me home.

I agree a gun is better, but its not always available.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 04-27-2005).]

Neko,

I think you might be misconstruing the argument that CXT is making. He was stating that in the context of the whole of MA, self-defense(H2H) is a part of, but not necessarily the whole of MA.

-B

Neko

I think your misunderstanding what I meant---or perhaps I just said it poorly--which to be honest is more than possible [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

What I was doing was pointing out how these arguements seem to revolve around what the most effect method of HTH comabt is for self defense.

When the truth of the matter is that the most effective means of self defense are:

1-Common Sense
2-Awareness
3-If you can't run, hide etc, then the use of a weapon.

(if of course you can get it out in time and are trained to use it properly--see #2 above)

None of which are generally delt with by ANYONE argueing for or vs this or that system or "style."

Another thing that most folks overlook is what you bring up the "what if" line--as you mention-"what if" your caught in the shower?
Thats a question that can asked about ANYTHING, ANYONE AND ANY "STYLE."

And thats a question you can NEVER really answer--because someone can ALWAYS say "what if" and present a situation where "your" method either won't work or would be at serious disadvantage.

I'm not suggesting that self-defense training is NOT helpful or NOT useful--just that in the scheme of things a firearm will generally beat a punch or armbar--not ALL the time of course--but generally.

(again if you can get it out and use it properly--and like I said--you can say the same for ANY person or style.)

[This message has been edited by cxt (edited 04-27-2005).]

[This message has been edited by cxt (edited 04-27-2005).]

I apologize for my misunderstanding and I totally agree with your conclusion after you explained it again in detail. You are absolutely right, if there is such a thing in such a discussion.

I understand and agree with your anology, definitely it is the way of the modern warrior, which I feel you guys are at least you think like one. I dunno know.

Neko

Nothing at all to apologize for.

Like I said, chances are pretty good I was less than crystal clear in my OWN explanation.
Would not be the first time [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Interesting discussion all the way around.

Perhaps a last word before the Topic runs out of steam? or some die-hard Bruce's fans turn this into another monster / monstrous thread.

Kata in and of itself obviously do not give you good fighting skills; just as gun target practice at the firing range do not guarantee you come out alive in an "alive" gun fight; there are so many variables; but at least you learn to shoot straight. There are many more aspects to MA than training in katas.

As an old practitioner, kata is now to me more for meditation; the practice is an end in itself; whether any of the techniques can or will be used effectively in a fight does not enter my mind at all. Just let the movements flow; because the movements are already built into and became part of the muscles, like dancing. Its like humming an old familiar tune or taking your dog for a stroll everyday at 6 pm before dinner or drawing your katana out and sheathing it a hundred times a day. It is the doing of it that matters.

It was recognised a long time ago that just doing katas alone does not gurantee anything and so in the old days there was 'san sou' (loose hands) where no katas were taught, only the individual techniques extracted from the katas. This was for people who wanted some fighting skills in a hurry. Of late this term 'san sou', in the West, has taken on to mean a system in itself.

However if you want to be a martial artist and not just a fighter, katas are the only text books available, and just like a surgeon who has to practice his operating skills on "alive" patients, you need to do some "alive" fighting to bring those text book lessons to life.