I think with all the new mma,UFC,and Pride type events kata is being overlooked as self-defense. People just want to get in there and go at it.
Kata with proper bunkai(application)is very good for close quarters combat. Many people today see it as fighting multiple imaginary opponents from a distance or just punching and kicking air.
Ofcourse you're not going to perform a kata on someone during a fight,but take each movement and give it useful meaning.Then you have more than useless movements.
Having said that,kata is not all you need,you also need to spar and put the applications to use.
I'm not bashing on MMA,but I feel kata is too often seen as useless by alot of people who don't practice it or don't understand it.

Kata is good because you repeat stuff so much it becomes automatic. Of course you would never perform a kata and defend yourself but they do "program" some very useful things into musule memory.
IMO if you know what each move does and can imagine attackers, it might just "click" if you are every attacked.
I'm sure the old folks who came up with these arts had a good reason for kata, or they wouldn't have bothered with it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JayJay:
Kata is good because you repeat stuff so much it becomes automatic. [/QUOTE]

What about timing? By that I mean, the timing that you need and that would come from the resistance from a REAL, and not imaginary opponent?

-John

John,

Good point. That's why people practice kata bunkai with a partner, first compliantly to get technique and then with resitance to see if it works.

Kata was just a way for the teacher to pass on the techniques in an easy to remember format before DVD was availale.
Sharon

[This message has been edited by still wadowoman (edited 04-23-2005).]

Practicing the techniques on a resisting opponent will give you timing.
Noone has to do kata to become a good fighter,but maybe they would be a little better if they had.

Quote by still wadowoman:

[QUOTE]That's why people practice kata bunkai with a partner[/QUOTE]

Hmmm....did you mean kata bunkai is supposed to be practiced with a partner? In all the years that I did kata, it was always done solo, in the air.

I agree that is is next to impossible to learn the timing elements when practiced by yourself.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Quote by still wadowoman:

Hmmm....did you mean kata bunkai is supposed to be practiced with a partner? In all the years that I did kata, it was always done solo, in the air.

I agree that is is next to impossible to learn the timing elements when practiced by yourself.[/QUOTE]


That was how I did kata as well (solo, in the air). In all the time that I did kata, I absolutely KNEW that I couldn't fight worth a crap, if I'd needed to.

Kata bunkai - the practical application of kata. Why don't we just go right INTO the practical application with a partner(s) using variable levels of resistance and skip the solo practice (after a few rudimentary repetions that is)?

I am under the impression that most of the martial arts population, understands that kata is solo practice. I think that is generally the first thought that comes to mind.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Practicing the techniques on a resisting opponent will give you timing.
Noone has to do kata to become a good fighter,but maybe they would be a little better if they had.[/QUOTE]


Sanchin31:

I mean no disrespect, but that's pure speculation there.


-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 04-23-2005).]

Kata is about perfection of technique. First kata is done to learn the basics of the technique. Once these basics are learned techniques from kata are practiced on a partner with increasing levels of resistance. This practice is integral for a karateka to develop "timing" of their technique and to learn the "true timing" of the kata. After this "true timing" of kata is learned a karateka can practice kata using visualization and improve their fighting ability during this solo exercise. Then the lessons learned can be applied to resistance again and a karateka can improve further. Karate is a system that is not effective if not trained properly. Most styles of karate do not train it properly, and even in the styles that do most karateka do not. It is not necessarily any better or worse than the other systems, but if trained properly it is effective. Kata at higher levels is about perfecting the timing and technique that has already been developed through the heat of battle. Just as an elite level athlete uses solo drills and visualization to improve along with contact and partner work. Any one who does not understand this knows nothing of elite level athletics.

'I mean no disrespect, but that's pure speculation there."

No problem John,only my opinion.

<<<Kata bunkai - the practical application of kata. Why don't we just go right INTO the practical application with a partner(s) using variable levels of resistance and skip the solo practice>>>

John,

You raist a good point. Why don't we just do the technique? Afterall, jujitsu doesn't do kata (not in the karate sense anyway), they just practice the techniques.

Back in the day, it was how techniques of the system got transmitted. Like Sharon stated, before DVD days.

But after karate (or any other art that uses forms) shifted from jitsu to do, kata became a zen pursuit- perfection of form, focus, etc.

Do we need kata today? Guess it depends on what you want from your practice. I like kata. For me, it is a good way to remember techniques because kata is the encyclopedia. I also like the meditative aspects. Although I do visualize attackers, I also realize that how a technique is done in kata is not necessarily the way it is done "for real". (which again calls into question the use of kata practice). What a tangled web we weave, when we practice to understand kata... :-)

peace