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#103245 - 04/24/05 06:08 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Nekogami,
With all due respect, I do not live n a fantasy world. I am an economist, so if you want to pull up a load of statistics to prove something, that says nothing to me.
I can paint you a picture with different statistics that will show the opposite of what you are saying.
First of all you do not know if after the banning law passed, whether gun crime would have gone up anyway. Maybe the law even slowed the inevitable rise of handgun use.
Maybe you are the one who is right.
I used to own a gun, it does not bother me anymore that the bailifs came and took it.

Lat me tell you a story.
My friend had a summer house and his dad kept a few handguns and shotguns that were for private use. One night (whilst everyone was sleeping) their house got robbed. The thieves used that spray that makes you not wake up. In the morning they woke up to find everything stolen, including all the firearms.
The problem with my friend ownng guns in that scenario is twofold.

1. They stole the guns and now they are going to be used for illegal purposes and possible killings.

2. If they had wolen up, the result might have been a gun fight, which would probably end up with the deaths of the whole family.

Do you see how badly the situation could have potentially gotten?

Guns, depersonalise the killing.
You will think twice before stabbing someone.
And secondly they are not to be trusted in the hands of immature people.
The fact is that if it is harder for you to get a gun, the lesss likely you are to use it.

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#103246 - 04/24/05 06:17 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you own guns,buy a safe.If you're away your guns will not be stolen.
They need to enforce the laws they already have in place. If they ban guns the only ones who will be without them will be law abiding citizens.

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#103247 - 04/24/05 08:00 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
Violent crime rose-not just gun crime.
All violent crime.

State of Texas had a 36% decrease in ALL violent crime after the concealed carry bill passed.
All violent crime, not just offenses with a firearm.

An armed society is a polite society-Robert Heinlein

[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 04-24-2005).]

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#103248 - 04/24/05 11:20 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've always living in countries with tough gun laws (NZ then Japan). The only guns I ever seen or used are rifles and shotguns (hunting). Personally I think the only people who should have handguns are the cops.

I've always felt safe knowing there aren't many guns around and those that are, are in the hand of trained professinals (police, military). And that any average Joe that owns one must get a licence and can only own weapons for sport. Handguns are only allowed if you are a member of a handgun club, and the licence is harder then. When you get your licence the poilce inspect your house and make sure you have a safe and that your guns are kept unloaded and the bullets keep in another location.

You can argue with me if you like, but its a statiscial fact that countries with tough gun laws (keep in my guns aren't banned, just concealable handguns and automatic weapons, lol) the violent gun-crime rates are much lower. If you don't believe me, look it up. Ten times the number of causties of 911 die in the US from gun crime every year! Not only that, a captured El Quida textbook cited the US as one of the best places for terroists to get weapons! Scary.

However whether the lower violent crimes rates are due to gun laws or not is debatable. Micheal Moore's excellent, if somewhat bias film "Bowling for Columbine" asks some good questions about this. For example, many people in Canada own guns but the gun crime rate doesn't even come that of the US. Why?

Another question, why allow ordinary Joes own automatic weapons? Those kids at Comlubine where pumping kids full of cheap 9mm rounds bought for a few cents at teh local Walmart! With sub-machine guns! I mean COME ON! What kind of county allows that to happen?

Another fact, most gun deaths in the US are actaully due to accident (kids fiddling with loaded weapons) NOT crime.

Banning guns is absurd and against democratic freedom to an extent I agree (some of us like sport). But allowing anyone to run around with a MP5 or M16 is just nuts! There must be some control on who owns what weapons.

[This message has been edited by JayJay (edited 04-24-2005).]

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#103249 - 04/24/05 11:26 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
JayJay, did you just ignore my post?

UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US, Australia also-both banned guns.

The Columbine incident had nothing to do with automatic weapons-they used semi-auto. There is a big difference.



[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 04-24-2005).]

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#103250 - 04/24/05 11:40 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Violent crime or gun-crime. Violent crime includes assault and in that case I would believe you. But I've been to Australia many times, recently and to big cities and "dodgy areas" and I can see no evidence of this "failure of gun control". Nor can I find any evidence on the net.

In London the VIOLENT crime rate has gone up including 4000 gun crimes. Still nowhere near the US.

[This message has been edited by JayJay (edited 04-24-2005).]

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#103251 - 04/24/05 11:45 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


THE TRUTH ABOUT AUSTRALIA

The National Rifle Association likes to tell tall tales about Australia. The best one is that gun control Down Under is a failure.

April 28th, 2003, marked the 7th anniversary of the Port Arthur Massacre, Australia's most devastating gun tragedy, in which a disturbed man went on a killing spree that left 35 dead and 19 injured. The massacre catalyzed a demand for comprehensive gun control. By 1997, Australia's States and Territories had passed the most significant gun law reforms in their history, including a ban on semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns; registration of all firearms and licensing of all shooters; and safe storage requirements for guns and ammunition.[1]

To persuade gun-owners to turn in their semi-automatic long guns, the Australian government established a buyback program, funded by the Federal Government and administered by the States and Territories. Reimbursements were generous; the program eventually cost over $320 million Australian dollars and resulted in over 643,000 guns being turned in.[2] Per capita, the Australian buyback was massive, equivalent to an estimated 40 million guns in the US.[3]

Has anything changed in Australia since the new laws went into effect? Between 1987 and 1996, 100 Australians were killed in mass killings of four or more people. Since the new laws went into effect, there has not been a single massacre. Moreover, in Australia, homicides committed with firearms have been declining - slowly before the Port Arthur Massacre, more sharply since - from 28 percent of all homicides in 1989-90 to 16 percent in 2001.[4] While the 1996 gun laws did not initiate the decline in firearm homicides, they appear to have accelerated it.

Along with the declining use of firearms in homicide, Australia has seen a decline in the use of firearms in armed robberies. From 1993 to 2001, the proportion of robberies committed with a firearm dropped from 16 to 6 percent.[5]

Suicide rates using a firearm show a sharp drop from 1979-98 with rates continuing to drop after 1996 [6] and firearm-related accidental injuries in Australia are also declining.[7] Public health experts see these declines as related to tighter controls over who may obtain a gun, stricter requirements for training and safe storage, and longer waiting periods for obtaining gun licenses.

The next time a credulous friend tells you that Australia actually experienced more crime when it got tougher on crime, offer your friend a Fosters and a helping of truth.

We need some Aussie on here for their point of view too.

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#103252 - 04/24/05 11:47 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]I've always living in countries with tough gun laws (NZ then Japan). The only guns I ever seen or used are rifles and shotguns (hunting). Personally I think the only people who should have handguns are the cops. [/QUOTE]

I hope the bad guys will follow this.

[QUOTE]I've always felt safe knowing there aren't many guns around and those that are, are in the hand of trained professinals (police, military). And that any average Joe that owns one must get a licence and can only own weapons for sport. Handguns are only allowed if you are a member of a handgun club, and the licence is harder then. When you get your licence the poilce inspect your house and make sure you have a safe and that your guns are kept unloaded and the bullets keep in another location.[/QUOTE]

I've always felt safe near my Desert Eagle and 12ga. at night. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] What good would it do me to have the bullets in another place when I'm at home?

[QUOTE]You can argue with me if you like, but its a statiscial fact that countries with tough gun laws (keep in my guns aren't banned, just concealable handguns and automatic weapons, lol) the violent gun-crime rates are much lower. If you don't believe me, look it up. Ten times the number of causties of 911 die in the US from gun crime every year! Not only that, a captured El Quida textbook cited the US as one of the best places for terroists to get weapons! Scary.[/QUOTE]

Can you reference this statistical fact for me? Statistics aren't facts.

[QUOTE]However whether the lower violent crimes rates are due to gun laws or not is debatable. Micheal Moore's excellent, if somewhat bias film "Bowling for Columbine" asks some good questions about this. For example, many people in Canada own guns but the gun crime rate doesn't even come that of the US. Why?[/QUOTE]

Michael Moore is a nut case driven by greed.


[QUOTE]You can argue with me if you like, but its a statiscial fact that countries with tough gun laws (keep in my guns aren't banned, just concealable handguns and automatic weapons, lol) the violent gun-crime rates are much lower. If you don't believe me, look it up. Ten times the number of causties of 911 die in the US from gun crime every year! Not only that, a captured El Quida textbook cited the US as one of the best places for terroists to get weapons! Scary.[/QUOTE]

You should look it up before listing it as fact.

[QUOTE]Another question, why allow ordinary Joes own automatic weapons? Those kids at Comlubine where pumping kids full of cheap 9mm rounds bought for a few cents at teh local Walmart! With sub-machine guns! I mean COME ON! What kind of county allows that to happen?[/QUOTE]

Ordinary Joes aren't allowed to own automatic weapons! You have to get a license,but that law(like any other) only applies to LAW ABIDING citizens.Another one of your facts?

[QUOTE]Another fact, most gun deaths in the US are actaully due to accident (kids fiddling with loaded weapons) NOT crime.[/QUOTE]

Again,where do you get your"facts"?

[QUOTE]Banning guns is absurd and against democratic freedom to an extent I agree (some of us like sport). But allowing anyone to run around with a MP5 or M16 is just nuts! There must be some control on who owns what weapons.[/QUOTE]

Tell me the difference between what you think we should have and shouldn't.

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#103253 - 04/24/05 11:51 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA

Top
#103254 - 04/24/05 11:54 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
You keep talking only GUN crime-I am talking VIOLENT crime.
Crimes involving Violence-whether with a gun or not.

Australia's VIOLENT crime rate went up.

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