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#103325 - 04/27/05 11:20 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGr:
Ok,
I agree that you dont know the intent of someone entering your home.
But waht i am saying and i said it before aswell, is that the chance of an accident happening with a gun is bigger than the chance of a invader.

But when you are making regulations and laws, you have to deal with statistics.
And if the crimes commited to gun owners whihc were potentially lethal are less the number of accidents that have happened within gunowners, it followes that guns are not of benefit as self defence over all.
Does that make sense?

[/QUOTE]

If people relied solely on statistics, then we wouldn't be allowed to drive cars right now, because we are at much greater risk to die in a car accident than a gun accident, statistically of course.

Statistically we have a better chance of being abducted by aliens than dying in a plane accident. Does that mean we should prepare for an intergallactic war? Or wear tinfoil while we fly?

Statistics are one piece of info that goes into decision making, just one piece out of many.

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#103326 - 04/27/05 11:25 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


sure cars are dangerous. in order to drive, I needed to prove who I was, I needed to take a written exam and then I needed to take a 4 hohur course and a road test. in addition, I need to display a sticker on my car that says that my car has been checked in the past year, and a plate on my car that says it is registered. and I need almost $4000 in insurance.

I am fine with the same limitations being on firearms.

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#103327 - 04/27/05 11:25 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
There are only 1,500 accidental gun deaths a year in the US, 75% of those are males 14-25(read gang members)
Cars kill 43,000 people a year-when are we going to ban them?


[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 04-27-2005).]

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#103328 - 04/27/05 11:36 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
10. Machinery
Deaths per year: 350

We can thank the farmers of America for the inclusion of this particular misfortune as a cause of death. Between corn-huskers and wheat-threshers, is it a wonder? The reason it is last on the list is that there just aren't enough people in farming these days. Ironically, they have all been replaced by machines. Hmm… accident, or deliberate act by wanton machinery? We may never know.


9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures
Deaths per year: 500

While we are incredibly insensitive people, we did not coin the term "medical misadventure"- the National Safety Council did. How is death by surgeon a "misadventure?" While we're not sure, we suspect that this number refers to elective surgeries that people undertake, such as liposuction. After all, the removal of a brain tumor is not usually considered to be an "adventure."


8. Poisoning by gases
Deaths per year: 700

There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning … In this category, you mostly have deaths by carbon monoxide poisoning due to faulty operation of a heating or cooking appliance, or a standing automobile. We assume, however, that the noxious gasses emitted by Uncle Albert qualify too.

7. Firearms
Deaths per year: 1,500
Of the 1500, you're looking at about 75% young males between the age of 14 and 25 (and getting younger every year), who unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else. For more information on the place of guns in society, click over to our pros and cons section.


6. Suffocation
Deaths per year: 3,300

Call this one the "Heimlich" section, as these deaths mostly resulted from blockages of the respiratory system by food or other objects.


5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?

4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.

1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?

from http://www.soyouwanna.com

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#103329 - 04/27/05 11:53 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by globetrotter:
sure cars are dangerous. in order to drive, I needed to prove who I was, I needed to take a written exam and then I needed to take a 4 hohur course and a road test. in addition, I need to display a sticker on my car that says that my car has been checked in the past year, and a plate on my car that says it is registered. and I need almost $4000 in insurance.

I am fine with the same limitations being on firearms.
[/QUOTE]

this argument is all well and good until you start placing restrictions on it like the guns were. "What if a drunk, whos license is revoked, cancelled his insruance policy, drove home, crashed, and killed three other people, so cars should be banned as well" type mentallity that has happened in this argument for gun control. Guns are tools. Guns are not dangerous. Idiots with guns are. Why punish those of us because of what the idiots do?

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#103330 - 04/27/05 12:24 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


no, I wouldn't say ban guns. what I would say is - what if a guy came home drunk and decided it was a good time to clean his guns? well, if it can be proven he should have his guns taken away from him and he should spend a short stretch in jail. what if a person buys a cheap tin box for his guns, and his guns are stolen and used in a robbery homicide? well, the gun owner should be punished with the same punishment as the guy who pulled the trigger.

what if a gun owner decides that he doesn't feel like going to the range to have the annual test to renew his license? well, we should take his guns away.

how does that sound?

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#103331 - 04/27/05 12:26 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I never had to prove who I was to get a driver's license.
I just showed up, filled out the form-they took my word for it.
Perhaps it was because I have an honest face.

To get a concealed carry permit, have to provide birth certificate and finger prints-go through a national criminal background check. Also cannot have a history of mental illness, heck any psychopath can get a driver's license.

Driving courses are not mandatory-you merely have to take a driving test. You don't even have to retake it periodicly, unlike a concealed carry license in TX-every 2 years have to retest.

[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 04-27-2005).]

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#103332 - 04/27/05 12:30 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by globetrotter:
no, I wouldn't say ban guns. what I would say is - what if a guy came home drunk and decided it was a good time to clean his guns? well, if it can be proven he should have his guns taken away from him and he should spend a short stretch in jail. what if a person buys a cheap tin box for his guns, and his guns are stolen and used in a robbery homicide? well, the gun owner should be punished with the same punishment as the guy who pulled the trigger.

what if a gun owner decides that he doesn't feel like going to the range to have the annual test to renew his license? well, we should take his guns away.

how does that sound?

[/QUOTE]

Substitute "car" for "gun" in the above-
How does that sound to you?

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#103333 - 04/27/05 12:30 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


guns are tools. but people don't collect chain saws like they collect guns.

guns are weapons, they are made to kil people and animals. the best guns are very good tools for killing people. they make it easy for people to kill other people, without understanding all the difficluties and consequenses.

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#103334 - 04/27/05 12:35 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13 V2.0:
I never had to prove who I was to get a driver's license.
I just showed up, filled out the form-they took my word for it.
Perhaps it was because I have an honest face.

To get a concealed carry permit, have to provide birth certificate and finger prints-go through a national criminal background check. Also cannot have a history of mental illness, heck any psychopath can get a driver's license.

Driving courses are not mandatory-you merely have to take a driving test. You don't even have to retake it periodicly, unlike a concealed carry license in TX-every 2 years have to retest.

[This message has been edited by nekogami13 V2.0 (edited 04-27-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

in my state (NY) you need 6 points of id to get a license, and you need to take a 4 hour course to take the roud test. if you get tickets, you need to take the course again to renew your license.


I think that the rules for a firearm and a car should be similar - tests, registration, periodic checks, illigal to opearate (in the case of firearms handle) when drunk or intoxicated, require insurance and training. I think that the training required for a firearm should be more extensive. I also think that ammunition should be regulated.

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