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#103235 - 04/22/05 06:26 PM Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The following I posted on another topic but because it didnt match the original one and because Sanchin quite rightly said i should start a new thread, here it is:

If there is a demand for something and the market is left to its own devices, then (living in a capitalist system) there will be a supply.
But, there are things called negative externalities, such as factories polluting the water and we pay to clean the water.
In other words there are certain products which require some sort of intervention from the government so that the rights of every citizen are protected and so that there will be increased welfare.
Free education, unemployment benefits etc etc.
Withtin this in my opinion, lies public safety.
And i believe that it is in the interest of public safety that guns are banned from civilian use.
Of course like you said there is no point in having such a law, if gangsters can still get a hold of guns and people cant, because that works to the disadvantage of the civilian.
But if the law is enforced correctly then gun related deaths would go down.
And crime related deaths would also go down.

In my opinion and i am sure you agree with me.
The best option would be to educate people to a standard that they would not use guns by their own accord. That is highly unrealistic because like you said there is not enough money for that to go around.

Its a very tricky situation,
but you are right, it comes down to education, not the law,
If people want to do it they will do it.

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#103236 - 04/22/05 06:36 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


A gun puts my wife equal with a 350lb thug who wants to break in my home. In the state where I live I have the option to get a license to carry a gun,however I've opted not to simply because I don't want someone stealing it from my car if I had to go in somewhere.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
I keep guns for my safety,hunting,and target shooting. People will abuse the right to have guns and they would if there was a law or not.
There are laws that prevent felons from possesing firearms,hasn't worked yet! Do you think banning would be different?

[This message has been edited by SANCHIN31 (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#103237 - 04/22/05 06:45 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
A gun puts my wife equal with a 350lb thug who wants to break in my home. In the state where I live I have the option to get a license to carry a gun,however I've opted not to simply because I don't want someone atealing it from my car if I had to go in somewhere.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
I keep guns for my safety,hunting,and target shooting. People will abuse the right to have guns and they would if there was a law or not.
There are laws that prevent felons from possesing firearms,hasn't worked yet! Do you think banning would be different?
[/QUOTE]

Good points sanchin I agree completely.

I think the way to decrease criminal acts, gun related or other is to increase the penalties. Criminals know the legal system is a joke in most countries. So why not do the crime when the reprecushion is minimal.

Dont eliminate the tools the bad guys will just find a new one.

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#103238 - 04/22/05 07:41 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Arg, this is why I'm glad about the gun laws in NZ. Just about to go for my gun licence, and I have to get two people interviewed by the police to make sure i'm not a nutcase (one has to be a family member) and have to pass a test, as well as get the police to come to my house and make sure I have a gun safe that an average thief/small child wont be able to break into. Assuming you pass this you are allowed to own rifles/shotguns only (bolt action, lever or pump). To own a handgun you have to be a member of a pistol club for at least 6 months and known to go there regularly (this gets checked out by the police). Even then its only allowed to be fired on the gun range.

Nice result because your average Joe dosn't own a firearm of any type, only people in the country really ever seem to have them. Makes me feel reasonably snug and safe [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#103239 - 04/22/05 07:59 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Personally I'm a strong gun advocate. Guns help to leave the playing field no matter the size of the person, however I feel that if you're going to take the responsibility of own or carrying one, you need to learn how to do so responsibly.

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#103240 - 04/23/05 12:26 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


When considering using a gun in self defense do you think about the mental aspects of taking a life? You need to.
If I caught someone in my home and pulled a gun on him I wouldn't shoot unless I had no other choice. If he turned to run I'd let him go. There's nothing like the sound of a slide and chamber of a 12 guage in the dark to make the biggest and baddest crap their pants and run!!

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#103241 - 04/23/05 12:48 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
The irony is that after gun laws are passed and crime rises, no one asks whether the original laws actually accomplished their purpose. Instead, it is automatically assumed that the only "problem" with past laws was they didn't go far enough. But now what is there left to do? Perhaps the country can follow Australia's recent lead and ban ceremonial swords.

Despite the attention that imitation weapons are getting, they account for a miniscule fraction of all violent crime (0.02%) and in recent years only about 6% of firearms offenses. But with crime so serious, Labor needs to be seen as doing something. The government recently reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the four years from 1998-99 to 2002-03.

Crime was not supposed to rise after handguns were banned in 1997. Yet, since 1996 the serious violent crime rate has soared by 69%: robbery is up by 45% and murders up by 54%. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the last survey done, shows the violent-crime rate in England and Wales was twice the rate in the U.S. When the new survey for 2004 comes out, that gap will undoubtedly have widened even further as crimes reported to British police have since soared by 35%, while declining 6% in the U.S.

Britain is not alone in its experience with banning guns. Australia has also seen its violent crime rates soar to rates similar to Britain's after its 1996 Port Arthur gun control measures. Violent crime rates averaged 32% higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year before the law in 1995. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 74%.

During the 1990s, just as Britain and Australia were more severely regulating guns, the U.S. was greatly liberalizing individuals' abilities to carry guns. Thirty-seven of the 50 states now have so-called right-to-carry laws that let law-abiding adults carry concealed handguns once they pass a criminal background check and pay a fee. Only half the states require some training, usually around three to five hours' worth. Yet crime has fallen even faster in these states than the national average. Overall, the states in the U.S. that have experienced the fastest growth rates in gun ownership during the 1990s have experienced the biggest drops in murder rates and other violent crimes. -Quoted from article by Dr.Jon Lott

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#103242 - 04/23/05 02:20 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]There's nothing like the sound of a slide and chamber of a 12 guage in the dark to make the biggest and baddest crap their pants and run!![/QUOTE]


amen to that .....click clack clicka [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#103243 - 04/23/05 02:25 AM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just goes to show that new laws aren't needed. What's needed is stricter enforcement of old laws.

How many times have you watched cops and seen felons with guns? Alot!

[This message has been edited by SANCHIN31 (edited 04-23-2005).]

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#103244 - 04/23/05 02:14 PM Re: Guns as Self defence?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Just goes to show that new laws aren't needed. What's needed is stricter enforcement of old laws.

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