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#103090 - 04/21/05 09:36 PM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


Magr, dissing our god-given right to carry guns violates the 11th commandment. J/K.

Most people are not highly-skilled ninja attackers. Pepper spray will deter most people. As a martial artist, pepper spray is a good opener for a self defence scenario. Even if that opener is spray and run.

Most conflict scenarios have a buildup or prelude. If someone is following you, pull out your pepper spray. Keep it in your hand. It makes you feel better. Kinda like a security blanket.

A knife is a skillful weapon. Using it will get you thrown in jail. Truthfully, you'll get in less trouble in the US using a gun than a knife. A gun is more socially accepted as a tool for self defence. Why is this? Well, it's a question of cowardice. A complete coward can use a gun. I guess the law favors the defender if he/she is a complete coward. It takes more guts to use a knife so it is assumed that a knife wielder is not a defender, but an aggressor.

To answer the initial question: It's very manly to carry pepper spray. If you feel you are in danger and need something to protect yourself, why not? The bottom line is, if a situation goes down and your need to seem manly got you injured/killed, you lost.

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#103091 - 04/21/05 09:53 PM Re: carrying pepper spray around
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I will merely state that you are buying into a myth MAGR.
UK violent crime is just as bad if not worse than the US.

Think for yourself-do not buy the lies sold to you as the truth.

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#103092 - 04/22/05 05:48 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13 V2.0:
I will merely state that you are buying into a myth MAGR.
UK violent crime is just as bad if not worse than the US.

Think for yourself-do not buy the lies sold to you as the truth.
[/QUOTE]


I am not buying into anything.
But I know that waht the figures say.
Thousands of gun related deaths each year in the US,
Not more than 100 or so in the UK,
and in other EU countries even less.
And in Canada 24!
So think about it.
You can not tell when you sell a gun to someone if they are going to use it for defence or for offence, so they should not be sold at all.
All guns should be banned for private use.
And dont give my that constitution crap, just because its written on a piece of paper does not make it right.
In the constitution of country X it gives the right for the man to kill his wife if caught cheating, that does not mean that its right.
Fact is that in countries that guns are banned, gun related crime is lower.
I am not talking about violent crime , i am talking about gun crime.
Its easy to shoot someone, you pull the trigger and thats it.
But you try putting a blade into someone and then we ll talk about the nightmares you are going to have.

I dont even want to hear about it.
If ANYONE supports being allowed to have guns then you are bloody stupid, and ignorant.

"Its written in my constitution that i have the right to defend my home and bla bla bla"
What a load of manure.

In my opinion, guns and anything more advanced than that should be destroyed. Wars should be fought with swords, not buttons. Its easy to press a button and kill 30 000 people. Its not as easy on your conscience when you have to put your sword through someones chest whilst they are looking at you in the eyes.
There would be a lot less deaths, and wars would last a shorter period.
I know that is not going to happen, but the least that the governments can do is ban that crap from our streets!

I feel very strongly about this, and i am sorry if i come across as a stubborn git, but its a non debatable issue

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#103093 - 04/22/05 06:12 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


I also want to add something.

Are the majority of gun related deaths due to people defending themselves with a gun, or attacker killing someone with a gun?

I would think about 90% the dead person is the defender, not the attacker.
Or are you saying that they should both have had guns? In that case they could both be dead.
How about neither of them carrying guns, wouldnt that be better? Giving both the attacker and the defender the chance to live!
THE PRICE OF LIFE IS NOT A 50 CENT BULLET!!!

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#103094 - 04/22/05 10:32 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well let me clarify what I was trying to get across. I live in the state of UTAH so that will answer alot of questions. Our crime rate has actually gone down in the last 5 years. The reason why is that there civlians are armed. Now I know from what I said it came across as I was promoting killing any of the (skilled ninja attackers good one LOL) as the final solution. But knowing the laws it is better to shoot the attacker than trying to stop them in a less lethal way. That does sound messed up but it leaves little holes and not multiable jagged lacerations. I too am skilled in using a knife and very interested in the sayoc kali knife fighting system (check it out at www.sayoc.com) a very practical and violent way to use multiable blades at the same time. But I think that using the knife would be better than shooting a man but its just less messy that way.

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#103095 - 04/22/05 10:45 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh! and to the anti american's in here. I dont think that any american should have the right to carry a weapon. I have also been in the military and I am a very skilled in using my weapon and im not always out there looking for the next gun battle in the scary streets of the US. Yes gun have killed many people over the last 400 years. That is true. But they are here to stay. And I know that in come contries guns have been taken out of the hands of their civilans but think about all of the malitias here in the US. Trying to take their guns is a big mistake and will end in a big bloody mess. Just keep the masses informed on the use a guns and turn off the MTV that shows 50 cent taking about shooting someone for looking as his woman. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#103096 - 04/22/05 11:07 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rougewarrior:
Oh! and to the anti american's in here. I dont think that any american should have the right to carry a weapon. im not always out there looking for the next gun battle in the scary streets of the US. And I know that in come contries guns have been taken out of the hands of their civilans but think about all of the malitias here in the US. Trying to take their guns is a big mistake and will end in a big bloody mess. [/QUOTE]

I sincerely apologise if what i said seemed anti american.
I think all countries have their faults.
I am from greece, and god knows we have a lot of shortcomings as well.

But it was those militias that you mentioned that i am refering to.
The thing is, in switserland every other house has an uzi, and their gun crime is minimal.
You are right, it is about education and about informing the public.
But if education fails to reach those parts do you just raise your hands and say "oh well"?

I live in England now, and i used to be the proud owner of a S&W hand cannon, with ivory handle, and a carved barrel. When the hand gun law passed here a few years ago, bailifs came to my door and just took the gun, no compensation or anything (it was a really expensive gun).
Now i was annoyed to say the least!
But a few years later and gun circulation in the UK has gone down.
So I guess in the end, it was probably a good thing!

Also how can you guarantee yourself that if you have a gun lying around and something happens that yoy are not going to use it in the heat of the moment? (i ve seen brothers pull guns at each other)
A knife is a different matter, you would not use a knife against someone unless your life depended on it!
Or you are a gangster

Moderators.
I know this is off topic, buts its an interesting conversation, and i would like the opportunity to discuss it, with MA because they are people who would have a more informed opinion on self defence and weapons.
Please dont lock it.

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#103097 - 04/22/05 11:10 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


The US has a much higher population density than Canada and European countries. We have over 300 million people. That makes us the third most populous country in the world. We have extreme racial diversity and extreme poverty. 1 in 3 people are in poverty(however defined).

You may know of supply and demand. Where there's a demand, there will be a supply. There is a demand for guns in the criminal underworld. Criminals will get guns. By restricting gun use, the non-criminals will no longer have them. The real question is: Is the majority of gun deaths preventable ones?

Further leaping into the laws of supply and demand: There is a demand for killing in our dense populace of diverse peoples. The poverty further spreads us apart. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. People want to kill each other so they'll use any means possible.

Now, I completely agree that using a knife is more personal. Using a gun is too easy. It allows someone to kill another person without truly considering the consequences.

As a martial artist, you learn to equate violence with consequence. When sparring, you realize that you can get hit back. So as good as you become, you develope a calm, non-violent seeking mindset.

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#103098 - 04/22/05 11:11 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry about that got a head of myself and I will keep the conversation in MA more.

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#103099 - 04/22/05 11:59 AM Re: carrying pepper spray around
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay:
Further leaping into the laws of supply and demand: There is a demand for killing in our dense populace of diverse peoples. The poverty further spreads us apart. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. People want to kill each other so they'll use any means possible.
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited 04-22-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

I am an economist, so i know one or two things about supply and demand, the GDP per capita in the US is $ 37,800
So 1 in 3 people are in poverty? I dont thinks so!
It may be that you have a highly skewed economy, but people in Africa are in poverty, not truck driving texans.

Also, lets talk about supply and demand.
If there is a demand for something and the market is left to its own devices, then (living in a capitalist system) there will be a supply.
But, there are things called negative externalities, such as factories polluting the water and we pay to clean the water.
In other words there are certain products which require some sort of intervention from the government so that the rights of every citizen are protected and so that there will be increased welfare.
Free education, unemployment benefits etc etc.
Withtin this in my opinion, lies public safety.
And i believe that it is in the interest of public safety that guns are banned from civilian use.
Of course like you said there is no point in having such a law, if gangsters can still get a hold of guns and people cant, because that works to the disadvantage of the civilian.
But if the law is enforced correctly then gun related deaths would go down.
And crime related deaths would also go down.

In my opinion and i am sure you agree with me.
The best option would be to educate people to a standard that they would not use guns by their own accord. That is highly unrealistic because like you said there is not enough money for that to go around.

Its a very tricky situation,
but you are right, it comes down to education, not the law,
If people want to do it they will do it.

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