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#102726 - 04/14/05 03:30 PM 21 feet

I was told by a conceal carry instructor that at 21 feet if you have a gun(holstered) and your attacker has a knife,he wins 95% of the time. Also if someone has a gun shoved up against you it is as much yours as it is his. Any Thoughts?
I am in no way condoning gun/knife disarms,I would run given the chance.

#102727 - 04/14/05 03:46 PM Re: 21 feet


I read the same thing (about a knife vs. holstered gun) in a knife mag a couple of years ago. Gives one a whole new respect for the shiv, eh?

Although "if someone has a gun shoved up against you it is as much yours as it is his."? That may be the case, but if all they want is my wallet, they can have it! [IMG][/IMG]


#102728 - 04/14/05 03:51 PM Re: 21 feet

Take it!! Take it!! [IMG][/IMG]

#102729 - 04/14/05 04:31 PM Re: 21 feet

I totally agree if all he wants is material items, he can have them. I'll make or buy more later.

This is the hardest thing for John Q public to understand, that a true Martial Artist honors Life more then anything. And will do his best to avoid fighting. Unlike the streetfighter or thug (not to put them is same category but for lack time), that goes around looking for a fight.

John Q sees the movies and think that U become invicible when you train, but really it enligten you, to just how fragile the human body is and how precious a gift life IS. Thats why we train.

The 7 yards/21 feet rule is true. No matter how fast you are at drawing U will get knifed first, not that U can't get a shot off. Most won't even clear hoslter. But a tie, here is still a lost.

#102730 - 04/14/05 05:57 PM Re: 21 feet

Do not make 21 feet your magic number. That distance was arrived at in a scenario where you are facing a man with a knife 21 feet away and the coach says "Go!". It does not factor in pre contact cues, obstacles, etc. It is simply a test of raw speed.

#102731 - 04/14/05 06:23 PM Re: 21 feet

I agree Fletch, but it does teach you something,yes?

#102732 - 04/14/05 08:27 PM Re: 21 feet
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
My understanding of the 21 feet is the FBI did a study.
They got someone trained in escrima to charge an agent with a training knife. At 21 feet or less, the agent got cut every time-sometimes not even clearing the holster.

The other thing I heard, is under 6' you have a very good chance of getting the gun before they can react. It is based on the reaction speed of an average person. I believe Fairbanks, who trained the WWII commandos demonstrated this fact, basically to show the commandos not to attempt to take prisoners up close.
Really never want to have to test that theory.

#102733 - 04/14/05 08:36 PM Re: 21 feet

I've seen one of the videos that shows the 21 foot test. Pretty scary in the fact that someone can get that much of a jump on you.

Something to learn from that...If someone's running at you with a knife, don't try and draw your gun, evade, parry, and destroy. Somebody is running full bore at you and thrusts their hand forward....this would be a good place for a re-directing maneuver..aikido anybody?


#102734 - 04/15/05 10:08 AM Re: 21 feet

This reminds me of something I saw once in a class. The attacker started at 21 feet with the rubber knife, defender a gun. The attacker charged him, the defender did a combat roll similier to a judo roll but alot more sloppy since it was a stress test. He went half way across the room to. Also by the time the attacker changed course the guy had the gun drawn and could have pumped him full of lead. The defender managed to draw the gun before he rolled but just didnt have time.

#102735 - 04/15/05 10:27 AM Re: 21 feet

I've never heard of this stuff before, would the situation change any if the defender had a knife instead of a gun? For ex, say the defender had a knife, in exactly the same position as he would a gun, would the rule still apply? Or since you don't have to aim and fire as you do with a gun, would the defender have a better chance that way?

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