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#102683 - 04/13/05 07:25 AM Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would like some advise on Knife defence. I have had some training here so not totaly new. I am wanting to incorporate this into class on a regular basis. I am going to list some attacks and if you guys can think of others please let me know I don't want to be limmited to my imagination.
1) straight in thrust
2) slashing downward and across body.
3) downward stabing motion
4) from behing knife at throat or at back

These I have covered, but anything else would be appreciated. Also the dreaded hidden slash (knife handle in hand, blade pointing toward elbow edge facing out) any suggestions here?

Thanks Dan

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#102684 - 04/13/05 09:15 AM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


I assuming that you are an Instructor so I will address this question from a preparing a lesson plan type approach. And I will only give a counter for the 1st attack. It would take too lengthy reply to cover the full spectrum of your question and there are plenty on Senseis/Gurus/Instructors that might add to your request. I hope.

The straight thrust to the middle section I teach at 3 different levels the basic level requires limited skills and is almost an instinctive responce.

Level 1 Which is to step back and grab the attacking arm with both of your hands pushing the weapon down and away to side your body (this was the grasp I used before any training when attacked by a knife, it worked then and should now), after securing the grip, head butt to the face, knee to the grion, release one hand and in a crossing or upper cutting motion, fore arm strike face wrapping the head into takedown. Note the knife may fall from his hand watchout for the blade.

Place the knee so that the elbow falls over knee, disarm or so that the blade faces away from you. At an advance level so that he falls on the blade pending the circumstance.

Level 2 Parry trap, elbow temple, rolling into arm bar (disarm or break), spin back elbow to jaw, forearm strike to face, into osotogeri, stomp still holding on to the arm.

Level 3 Parry trap, eye gouge, short elbow to knife hand elbow joint while you pull down on wrist (disarming or elbow break), knee to kidney, two hands grab one to the top of the head and chin takedown or neck dislocation, stomp.

Notice that each level the severity damage is heighten and technical difficulty and exact damage to attacking area is more specfic. Don't teach beginners potentailly deadly techniques, note blunt trauma can produce the same effect.
I try to use the KISS approach.

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#102685 - 04/13/05 11:10 AM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


From the perspective of "Keep it Simple-r" Stupid, I would suggest that you look at how you can use one or two gross motor skills (pushing, grabbing, hitting) to address the problem.

In my opinion, anything that involves a "parry" will likely have problems both in training and live application. The parry is a fine and complex motor skill especially when follwed up by typical martial artsy transitional moves like wristlocks and takedowns.

Check out www.centerlinegym.com for info on REDZONE, Jerry Wetzel's Knife Defense program.

Also, check out www.karltanswell.com for info on STAB.

These are by far the most practical and effective programs out there and they are effective from day one, without years of training.

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#102686 - 04/13/05 02:05 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


You want to defend against a knife,go buy a gun and take a combative shooting program and learn to use it. Knifings arent that random, often to escalate to that level of violence you have to severaly screw up. You can avoid 95% of those situations.

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#102687 - 04/13/05 04:10 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


AgenT,

Actually, I would have to disagree with you here. A gun would only be an effective response to a knife in a limited number of scenarios. This is respective to proximity and motivation of an attacker. Occasionally a phyiscical confrontation starts unarmed and then a knife may be introduced later.

All edged weapon scenarios do not start at 21 feet with a person brandishing a boxcutter. Further, most people do not realize a knife is present until they realize they have been cut or stabbed.

I think all people interested in practical self defense should have access to counter knife info without having the burden of carrying a gun.

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#102688 - 04/13/05 04:29 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


Flecht1 wrote - a "parry" will likely have problems both in training and live application. The parry is a fine and complex motor skill especially when follwed up by typical martial artsy transitional moves like wristlocks and takedowns.


Neko456 - A parry is one of he quickest ways to deflect or misdirect an attack it is a basic move that most green belts can do. It is also the method used in most Kali and Arnis defense, the skill required is why we used it at Level 2-3-4 because at Level 1 it doesn't take much skill to grasp the knife weilding hand of an unskilled knifemen. Its either that or get stabbed.

Another thing is this, the total combination was not required when I used it in the street quite frankly only the 1st part the combination was used. Something about striking a guys eyes and break his arm takes the fight out them? The other techniques were thrown in from hind sight. Wanting to make my students better then me.

A lot of people are arm chair Quarterbacks, try adding to the fray before you comment on what I know has worked for me. Seeing is believing ain't nothing you can tell me gonna prove that it didn't work the time I used it. Thats why I teach it. I'd would appreicate constructive criticism then doubters with little hope. You have to believe to make it work. Of course I got nicked, it part of knife fighting. I teach that too. And you never invite a Kf, but if you have no choice, U have No choice.

I know on a open forum you can expect this type criticism because some people think street fighting is a myth, but its real.

Why not answer the instructors question, take one or all and reply.

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#102689 - 04/13/05 04:34 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ah Flecht1 after your 2nd reply I notice you may have been there and done that, you do know but U won't share.

I like the approipate weapon at the appropiate range comment. I accept your criticism as constructive but subjective.

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#102690 - 04/13/05 05:06 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


Neko,

I don't rule out the parry. I just see it as a technique that requires what I believe to be a high level of finesse for a person to pick up without a lot of practice.

I did not mean to cast doubt on your experience, only to look at the problem from a lowest common demoninator (LCD) perspective (little training time/ most consistently reliable under pressure/ least attribute or skill driven).

I totally agree with your Level 1 approach though. I would probably revolve everything around it myself.

Just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Fletch1 (edited 04-13-2005).]

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#102691 - 04/14/05 03:54 PM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


We went through some knife defense scenarios the other day. We were all cut to shreds. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#102692 - 04/15/05 07:06 AM Re: Knife defence
Anonymous
Unregistered


Fletch1 thank you for the web pages I have not had an chance to look at them yet, but am sure I will find something of use from them.

Thanks to everyone else, I did not get the responce I was looking for. but thanks for your views.

Regards Dan

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