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#102491 - 04/07/05 12:11 PM Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


Do you think people benefit from these one time seminars? Will they be able to apply what they've been shown in such a short time? Do they do more harm than good?

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#102492 - 04/07/05 12:24 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I dont like the idea personally. I feel it gives people a false sense of security. Ive been doing MA of about 4-5 years now (not long, I know) and its funny, though I thought I was the man at green belt in TKD, now Im not so sure of my self defense ability.

I feel to really understand MA in all its aspects, including violence and self defence, you have to stay the course and do it for a while before it to be even marginally useful. I think a little knowledge with no back up can do more harm than good. False self confidence is very dangerous. Maybe some simple tricks and common sense taught could be useful, but Im still wary. In my opinion, of course.

[This message has been edited by JayJay (edited 04-07-2005).]

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#102493 - 04/07/05 12:51 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


Half baked ideas are more dangerous than ignorance. At least an ignorant person will likely try to run away from a SD situation (the first thing I would do) but a half baked SD trainee might try to duke-it-out with their SD techniques just because they know them. Having the tools and not knowing when to use them is a recipe for disaster.

Perhaps a seminar on how to recognise, avoid and escape danger would be more useful. (With proper legal advice)

[This message has been edited by Leo_E_49 (edited 04-07-2005).]

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#102494 - 04/07/05 12:59 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with both of you.I've seen seminars marketed toward women that will teach them how to get hurt.
They show them how to use your knee and simple techniques like that. but if you are not in it for the long haul you will never be able to apply it in a real situation.

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#102495 - 04/07/05 10:27 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Shadowfax Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Mason City, IA
Agreed. Just got a great example of that myself. I'm working with a woman from my office who's had some concerns about her safety. We've just started meeting to train. Her first "lesson" was just an introductory "here's some of the stuff you'll be learning in the coming months." She got really excited about that and did what almost all beginning MA students do - ran home to her boyfriend, told him to go after her, and she'd beat him up. Needless to say, she didn't do so well, but fortunately she's smart enough to realize that it's not the fighting system's fault- it's that she only had one 15 minute overview which wasn't enough for her to really learn anything.


I expect by this time next year she'll feel more confident - - hopefully confident enough not to need to beat up her boyfriend [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#102496 - 04/08/05 06:06 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I regularly teach SD seminars as part of my role as Head of the Self-Defence Federation

the feed back I get is generally always positive..

however 50% of every seminar is devoted to the self-protection aspects of Avoidance Awareness, Escape etc..
the other 50% is devoted to the principles of Adapt, Apply and Create that are the basis of my teachings..

The adapt part is showing how to use whatever skills people may already have for street use..

rank beginners are taught more about avoidance and evasion..

however I usually finish a seminar with the advice that turning up today is only the introduction, and hopefully some or all that you learned will be included as regular part of your future training..

as I get at least a 90% return invitations from seminars .. maybe there is some value in what I teach?

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#102497 - 04/08/05 06:14 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's the kind of SD seminar I'd go to. (Although, perhaps splitting Avoidance Awareness, Escape and Adapt, Apply and Create in a 60:40 ratio would be more appropriate, most people tend to place an emphasis on physical responses to SD and imho a course should emphasise avoidance to counter this disposition)

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#102498 - 04/08/05 06:20 AM Re: Self defense seminars
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
I don't think there is anything wrong with self defence seminars.

If you attend one and incorporate what you have learnt into your training they can be a great learning experience.
Sharon

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#102499 - 04/08/05 06:44 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


For people who attend such seminars as a one time shot (also things such as training camp, monthlong tryout specials etc.) it is a waste of time. However, the one I attended was with Huk Planas, one of the highest ranking BB in American Kenpo, and what he covered was a technique that just about everyone on the matt should have known by then. For us, it was more indepth coverage of material and nothing so new we wouldn't be able to apply it right away.

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#102500 - 04/08/05 07:46 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Shadowfax Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Mason City, IA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by still wadowoman:
I don't think there is anything wrong with self defence seminars.

If you attend one and incorporate what you have learnt into your training they can be a great learning experience.
Sharon

[/QUOTE]


There's a significant difference between seminars for martial artists who will take what is taught at the seminar and incorporate it into their training, and those seminars like the ones the cops put on from time to time that's 1 night of women's self defense.

Those seminars tend to attract people who get 2 hours of instruction and then leave thinking they're ready for anything. It's those kinds of seminars that do far more harm than good.

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#102501 - 04/08/05 08:21 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with Dave Turton.

SD seminars can have some value - assuming the students practice what they learn.

I have personally attended some SD seminars from other styles, and picked up some great stuff.

I assume SANCHIN31 was really refering to MA beginners, not more experienced folk. Still, I think if someone can pick up one good technique from such a seminar, it is worth it.

All hail the return of intelligent discussion on the SD forum!!

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#102502 - 04/08/05 12:49 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Do you think people benefit from these one time seminars? Will they be able to apply what they've been shown in such a short time? Do they do more harm than good?[/QUOTE]

Sahchin, good question!! The answer I think depends on what is taught.

I designed and taught a few. They were not even full day seminars - ran just over 4 hours. Although ther wer not desinged specifically for women that was who showed up.

A lot of thought was put in to it and had, what I think, were realistic goals. The idea was not teach anything complicated but convey basic life saving ideas. It also recognized that most of the people who attended, especially the women, probably had NEVER truck anyone in anger in their whole lives. (This proved to be dead on!)

The whole concept was to open the door to personal safety awareness, avoid becoming a victim, and offer some basic techniques on how to escape an attacker.

This is generally what we covered;

1.) The "victim selection process" - why bad guys picked certain people - which has very little to with age, race, physical size or gender. It is based almost exclusively on body language.

2.) Awareness - recognizing and staying away from potentially dangerous situations. Then developing street safe, srteet-smart habits.

3.) Understanding your personal safety zone -he coventional 3 ft circle and getting people to recognize when someone appears to want to and/or does compromise it.

4.) Introduced about 12 -15 techniques to escape a variety of common attacks like grabs, chokes, etc., We also re-enforced over and over that this was a situation they needed to AVOID but if they couldn't that they had do SOMETHING.

**In this part the first thing I did was to have them punch, kick and knee a kick bag. It was amazing because I actually had women start crying because, even though it was very supportive, they had never done it before. After we got through that the rest was pretty good and they enjoyed it. At the very least they experienced what it might be like to strike someone and had a reference point.

5.) Having a plan and excecuting it at the earliest (most appropriate) time.

I also did some decent handout material so they left with "home work" hoping that that evening or over the next few days they would be jazzed up enough to review it.

I had my daughter and several neices in these classes. None of them have ever had anyhing happen to them. Not sure what that means but I hope it helped some.

Personally, I dont' think you CAN teach anyhting else that meaningful in a day other than what I described.

I know a lot people have other ideas, just my thoughts.

Be well,

- KiDoHae




[This message has been edited by KiDoHae (edited 04-08-2005).]

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#102503 - 04/08/05 03:06 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think a trained MA can benifit from seeing and experience anything new hands on, book or Video if you continue to practice the things that you were taught in the seminars. All it takes is to have that light bulb come on where you see how you can use or how you can counter this move with what you already know.

I think in the these seminars you can always pick up something weather its verbal presentation, phyiscal delievery or hands on hands teaching teachniques. I still use the take what you can use and discard what is useless to you. If either the mental or phyiscal explaination is too long or jumbled, I evaluate weather I can use it and of course change it so it works for me.

Is it benificail in teaching beginners applicable self defense techniques, No. But it can wet the whistle so they will seek out whats the quote " Please seek out a quailfied Instructor".

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#102504 - 04/08/05 08:40 PM Re: Self defense seminars
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Depending on how they're run, you can pick up a few things from seminars - IF you have some game already developed. Most of the time you're taught stuff that you'll end up forgetting about anyway within a week.

-John

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#102505 - 04/08/05 09:57 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


Last year i went through a combat lifesaver course. It covered shock treatment,bullet wounds,dehydration,starting an I.V.,CPR,cuts,mental breakdown,etc,etc.....
The class lasted 2 days,12 hrs a day.
The next weekend I don't think I could do a whole lot in a combat situation if the guy next to me was wounded. I might could help some though.
My point is it just covers too much in such a short time to be that helpful.

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#102506 - 04/09/05 09:43 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Shadowfax Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Mason City, IA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KiDoHae:

4.) Introduced about 12 -15 techniques to escape a variety of common attacks like grabs, chokes, etc., We also re-enforced over and over that this was a situation they needed to AVOID but if they couldn't that they had do SOMETHING.
[/QUOTE]

If you are teaching 12-15 techniques in under 4 hours, and then you never see the students again, I don't see how the students are possibly going to retain that.

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#102507 - 04/09/05 10:16 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


For beginners, if a self-defence class teaches some common sense about keeping safe and avioding trouble them Im all for it. If its teaching techniques that take practise to perfect, I aint. Its funny, Im a better fighter now than every before in my life (not to say Im accaully good though) but Im less sure about my self defense ability. I think Im just more realistic now, but I could be wrong.

Is it better to be underconfident or overconfindent? Good question, I think.

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#102508 - 04/12/05 04:35 PM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think if a seminar is based on 3-4 techniques combined and practiced for various different situations something can be gained in a seminar.

When I'm a visitor or guess Instructor at a Seminar I usually show 3-4 techniques, setup 5-6 various simulated attacks at different level of intensity for the young and old. We practice these attacks and counters until we sweat. At the end of the my hour or 1:30 minutes I usually asked for random applications of the 3-4 based techniques vs. different or even total different scenairo (to make them think) and know that it works.

Instead of basing my seminar after numerous classes I've attend with 15-30 technique used to amazed the student.

I based my seminar outline from a CPR & 1st Aid class that I took years ago from a Fireman, he stressed know your basic and apply it to various situation. I changed the topic and applied it to what I do in M.A., having seen people and help use CPR after these basic classes.

You shout hey U "call 911", I'm gonna start CPR come back and help. Of course we are now using the AHR (Aullixary Heart Restorator/shocks the heart). There are various acroynums for it.

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#102509 - 04/13/05 04:35 AM Re: Self defense seminars
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ages ago when I was still at school they would give us a self defense session that was like an hour long. This would happen about once every three years.

I think this is definitely a ridiculous approach to teaching self defense.

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