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#101802 - 03/08/05 09:56 AM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


Best learn to cover up??? Not if you are not good on the ground or can't take being knee being or elbowed to your tricep.

Covering up is a fighter in retreat, foot work and movement is the key, blocking should only be done after he gotten close enough to strike you, but then he close enough for you to strike, do it first.

I would suggest if he gets to close grab him and push him away or take him down. Striking as you go. Never just take a defensive attitude unless you are testing or sparring around.

Block and go/hit, or if you are skilled just angle and go/hit/counter.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 03-08-2005).]

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#101803 - 03/08/05 10:14 AM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


Defang the snake. If you don't know what this is i ergue you to find out [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#101804 - 03/08/05 11:43 AM Re: How to Block
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Neko456:
Best learn to cover up??? Not if you are not good on the ground or can't take being knee being or elbowed to your tricep.

Covering up is a fighter in retreat, foot work and movement is the key, blocking should only be done after he gotten close enough to strike you, but then he close enough for you to strike, do it first.

I would suggest if he gets to close grab him and push him away or take him down. Striking as you go. Never just take a defensive attitude unless you are testing or sparring around.

Block and go/hit, or if you are skilled just angle and go/hit/counter.

[/QUOTE]

So you would rather have him take an elbow to the face than to the arm?

Covering is a great tactic. Especially when moving forward to close distance with your opponent. Just cause your hands are up and tight to your face doesn't mean you can't move just as well or throw strikes just as well. A fighter that can move well and strike well from cover is very deadly. Beginners should always cover instead of trying some difficult technique. Keep it simple for starts. Once you learn to cover properly, then you can start learning to attack the incomming strikes.

Cover, keep your eyes up, and move forward.

Or move in whatever direction you want, back or to the side if you want to disengage from your opponent perhaps.



[This message has been edited by otobeawanker (edited 03-08-2005).]

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#101805 - 03/08/05 12:18 PM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


We have no debate here covering moving is not a problem, except I call that entering or approaching an opponent with your guards up. In motion there is nothig wrong with guards up and reacting to his blows.

But I envision and my interpetation of covering is being caught flatfooted or overwhemled by an attack and covering as if trapped in a corner/against the ropes or by surprised. Its Ok for a second then you got to take him down or grab him setup your knees and elbow or push him away. Don't let him set there & T off.

So interpetation is where we differ. Ecouching on an oppoenet and covering in defensive mold are two different things.

And of course he was talking about blocking not setting up an attacking. And yes they go hand in hand. But I don't see covering as learning how to block, its to me is start of bobbing and weaving.

Hands up high can absorb some blows but out gloves your don't want to that, unless you just have to. But as the others mentioned why take a shot anywhere out of gloves a strike to arms or collar bone can num and break.

It's taking a defensive stand or even in your example moving in under cover, is not a fast darting in and out attack. The slow plodding style makes him easy to figure out and hit. Crab stance boxing breds sparring partner mentality or at least counter puncher, if you are fast.

Be alive and try to win, attack, make your opponent have to block and try to counter if he's good. Block when you have to.

MHO.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 03-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 03-08-2005).]

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#101806 - 03/08/05 12:31 PM Re: How to Block
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
Well I agree with most of what you just poseted. Covering isn't a way to learn to attack the incomming strikes. But its a good starter, providing your going to make an attempt to evolve from there. The simplicity of the cover is great for novices. But then again I am the kind of fighter that stands in and will take the hits, sucker my opponent into throwing lots of strikes.

It takes more energy to throw a punch than to take a punch.

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#101807 - 03/08/05 12:51 PM Re: How to Block
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hedgehogey:
Step by step guide to blocking:

Step 1: Go to boxing gym.

Step 2: Sign up for lessons

Step 3: Spar.
[/QUOTE]

That's fine for boxing, but doesn't always work for self defense.

In self defense terms I make the assumption that my opponent has a knife, even if I don't see it. If I'm right fine, if I'm wrong I haven't lost anything.

While agreeing with what people say about striking first etc. I still believe that to be effective you need to be able to block. At some stage, someone is going to throw something that you don't expect and are not ready for.

You then need to be able to block. It stops you getting hit and that's one of the objectives of self defence. Depending on how you do this you can then transition into offence.

JohnL

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#101808 - 03/08/05 01:09 PM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


In practice session if a student stands and just my cover, I'll stop the fight and show him how he can be swept, taken down, body limbs numed by elbows/knees or thigh kicked, or knee kicked ouch. Guards still up by his head, or bobbing and weaving, its only effective if the guys punching your head.
And guards up on the ground a stomp will drive the head in to the concret or go right through it.

Its not an adquate defense, in free for alls. When a step back can stop this all out assault.

YOU MUST BE built like a Tank or have very fast hands. I don't like taking strikes unless I'm gonna deliver a devastating combo.
I think its a good tactic until you fight a heavy puncher.

You are right a guy can burn himself out striking. And it takes less energy to catcht em on the gloves or make him miss. But if one connects it takes all the energy out of body and dirty floors don't taste good, yes I've tasted them.

I find it easier to teach offense then defense. I only teach gut fighting to my less talented students, it all they got until they can build up some skills and refelxes. But they do take a beaten for one strike. Ala hw Champ Joe Frazier vs George Foreman.

Covering is good to know, especially if you need a nano second to clear your head.
We are in agreement.

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#101809 - 03/08/05 02:27 PM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


I reckon that without a good defense, you'll always be beaten by someone faster of the same strength and technique. And there's always someone faster out there.

I rather like the boxing guard for defense because you don't necessarily have to be faster than your opponent to use it. It's more like a passive defense. I also like using Muay Thai style leg defense and a couple of tricks from TKD for what to do when someone tries to sweep you. (Mainly skipping side kick to the head level, which should be at about knee height when your opponent is doing a sweep) Arguably this won't work every time so it's important to have a good grasp of groundwork and breakfalls in such a situation.

Imho better to dodge than block, but there's always someone faster, so don't always count on being able to pre-empt your opponent and dodge/intercept.

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#101810 - 03/08/05 03:37 PM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


Leo my man how are you gonna do a skipping side kick, if the guy grasping both your arms and sweep you. You are talking about TKD or kick boxing sparring I'm talking about fighting.

Thinking of only long range counter technique, skipping side to the head is impracticle or thinking that you can only be sweept with a low iron broom technique to side kick head/knee level is closed minded.
How would you stop the before clinch sweep? Theres a counter to everything but countering with head kicks is risking in the sparring and down right dangerous in the streets or reality base fighting.

We agree that a guard position is best, How you use it is where we debate there is a difference in a plodding boxing guard up, covering, and encouching advance. Wait till you swing at me plan. And fluid boxing movement.

I have no problem with fluid boxing movement as long as you are not slowing moving in seeking protection with your guard up. Sparring or fighting like a sparring partner.

As mentioned before unless you have a plan with this technique, you are just waiting to get hit hard, and taken to the ground. Because its so easy to read.

A good defense is great when you need it, but I don't think a slow plooding defense is a good defense. You are just too easy to hit. IMO.

A cover should be used just to get you out of trouble, for a split second then move. Unless you fight that way, like otobewanea.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 03-08-2005).]

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#101811 - 03/08/05 06:49 PM Re: How to Block
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've seen plenty of sweeps which are long ranged. I am also studying Jujutsu now to compensate for my lack of grappling knowledge. I said in my previous post that you need to have a good grasp of breakfalls and groundwork. Give me 15 years more training, (equal to my current TKD experience) then I'll have a good answer to your grappling techniques. By that time, I'll be 34, arguably a more respectable opinion will exit my mouth then.

If someone had a hold of my arms, (for now) a swift Muay Thai style knee to the chest/gut will have to do. Later, maybe I'll learn reversals for this technique. Hell, with some extra training I could probably do a decent shoulder lock to counter already.

When someone applies a sweep from a distance (as I assumed) then they tend to bend over, hence head kicks are possible. I would never kick above knee height. If it hits then more than likely it'll be a KO.

Hey, if I'm close enough, an elbow to the jaw/temple. The right tool for the right job, am I correct?

Not everyone in TKD sucks at using hand techniques. Most but not everyone. I cross train boxing and now Jujutsu. Arguably Muay Thai is a better kicking art but TKD is a good stand in.

I also teach not to stay in one place and wait for an opponent to attack you, same as you do. Footwork is something as you know TKD specialises in, I don't think I'd just stand still and wait to get hit. Have you ever seen someone in TKD plodding? Someone who acts defensively is asking to be hurt.

How many non-McDojo trained TKD practitioners do you know? Perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to how TKD is implicitly a sparring MA. My instructor taught modified TKD as a CQC system in the army. Boots are the same as baseball bats on the feet of a *good* TKD practitioner. The South and North Korean militaries would also argue that modified TKD is effective in the field. Especially since the border is largely still a high tension area.

Just because it's flashy in demos doesn't mean it's flashy in self defense. Have you ever seen TKD knife defense techniques? Probably not, because they don't teach them until the higher belts. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Lowering your guard (not using a boxing guard) exposes vital targets and could end a fight prematurely. Most people know how to box reasonably well and I've never seen someone fast enough to grab a good jab out of the air. If you are, then that's impressive. However, I think it's lax to depend on a certain style of active defense without adequate fallback. What happens if you meet someone who punches faster than you can intercept/block? One good punch is all it takes to KO.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Unlike most MA here, I don't like picking fights (happens to be illegal where I live) so I wouldn't know much about true applications.

Hell I agree with you mostly. Sometimes I wish I'd chosen to join Muay Thai or Jujutsu when I was 4 years old, instead of TKD. But even then I wouldn't judge a book by its cover or it's worst chapters.

And here's a serious (not rhetorical) question I've been pondering for a while now. How do you go about grabbing a good boxer's arms without opening yourself up for a KO? I really want a genuine answer to that one because I think it could come in handy.

[This message has been edited by Leo_E_49 (edited 03-08-2005).]

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