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#101412 - 03/09/05 12:24 AM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


A guy asked about this on another BBS Forum on Jan.16.2004 and I stated what is posted below based off how my mindset actually is, and having had a gun pulled on me, not once, but TWICE in my life. It is a sobering and scared shitless position to be in especially when you're not expecting it. But if it happens to you and you aren't dead... you should rethink your place in this world and devise something you'd do if the situation ever occurs again. Thus what's below should not be tried by anyone, it's just my mindset and how I live and would ultimately be willing to die if neccessary. It has nothing to do with being a bad ass or such bullshit. Of course having become a "Born Again" Christian since my teenage years, I'd probably try to witness to them first and not antagonize someone, but (Lord forgive me) It's already 2nd nature to react in a life or death situation.
**********************

The original question asked on the other board so long ago:

>>> If I held a gun to your head, what would you do? Would you beg for your pitiful life? Cry? Tell me a sad story about your wife and kids? Offer me a blowjob? Accept it, cause' no one gets away from me? Just Defend the bullet and then stick me in the face? <<<

My answer then and now:
-----------------------

In that situation you'd (or whomever) would have literally 8 seconds in which to pull the trigger because if you didn't I'd take if from you and not mince words like in the movies and simply shoot you with your own gun. *I've had guns pulled on me twice in my life, one was a gang initiation thing that backfired on them. I don't like ppl pointing guns at me, let alone sticking one to my head. Cause like I told them punk bitches in '96: "If you're gonna put the hammer down, then do it, otherwise don't waste my ****in' time. Get it!"

...needless to say, I'm still here after that note. Looking back on it it wasn't a good idea to antagonize them, but something about someone pulling a gun on me insults me. *It's like the person is too much of a punk to FIGHT me with bare knuckles or knives or something where the odds are evened out a bit.

There's one of three ways this plays out in the real world and the 8 seconds thing is something personal, not some rule of thumb. *You see if someone gets the drop on you and manages to put a gun to your head, if they ain't pulling the trigger and are talkin' trash or demanding your money... they're hoping for you to freak out at the fact they have a gun.

Other than being caught off guard, what's the big deal? So the dipshit has a gun to your head, being more realistic than 8 seconds... within 4 to 5 (seconds are damned quick remember that) of the gun being put to your head you move, they'll be a slight hesitation of a milli second... the gun will go off but not in your brain. You then have milli seconds to either trounce into the gunman or go for the gun. You have a better chance of being shot while struggling for it than just letting some bastid try to play GOD with you. I mean **** THAT you know?

That's if the gun is put to the side of your head.

Now if it's straight on, you have an even better chance, because the person had to get right onto you to even have the gun at nose length. This would be you staring down the barell. *This was the cholo gang banger incident I was talking about. ---Now in this situation, it's more of the same. Within seconds you had better know what you're going to do, because the gunmen is still playing a psychological game with you... you have to be resolved to the fact you're more than likely going to die, but might as well make a break for it.

Within those few nano seconds, with your left hand coming up from the inside, knock the gun pointing at you to your right (you should as the person first sticks the gun in your face, bring both hand up to chest level so it's not an obvious move. To the gunmen it looks like your in total submission.... it's better to have the palms facing outward anyhow) AND MOVE your head to the left, AGAIN the gun will go off... and you won't probably hear out of that ear for awhile, from there it's your show man. *I would not advise the **** talking I did... I was pissed off that afternoon and some cholos drove up and put a gun in my face and told me I was going to die. Standing there in my ROTC uniform, I just stared at the guy and said what I already stated I said... then slightly pushed myself forward and dared the guy to shoot me, my forehead only inches from the barrell. The guy freaked out and went onto someone that his gang initiation would feel more rewarded on, because the punk wanted me to be afraid... only I was annoyed. I had homework to do, and no GF then, and wasn't getting any poon... so I had reached the point of "Whatever!" ---Again, this isn't the course to take.

The last thing would be if someone (or a pair) is going to whack you and it's nighttime... more than likey you have no way out, but it doesn't hurt to ask for a cigarette as a last request. When the guy goes to light the cigarette (unless they're pros) he'll be looking into the flame (both if there are a pair)... you're eyes are closed momentarily. At that moment, move. A stay shot could hit you, but probably not... they'll be seeing the damned flame from the match or lighter for at least ten seconds in total darkness, giving you time to high tail it, or kill the guy or the pair right then and their.

So in reality, it's not that difficult. A person who intends to kill someone doesn't talk **** , they KILL the person. Thus a person who pulls a gun and doesn't use it immediately is looking to **** with you psychologically. It's a power trip, the second you take that feeling of Power from them, and literally send it back to them... chances are you've got them six feet under instead or died trying. You didn't punk out and beg for your life. If you're a saved Chrisitan this is even easier, because you know where you're going when you die, a better place... so you just do your thang and what happens happens is all. There really isn't some big thing behind it. I could tell you how to appear to dodge bullets, but you didn't ask me that, so I won't get into it... though THAT to is tricky, and is you as the intended victim using counter psychological warfare on the asshole with the gun.


[This message has been edited by Thunder Fist (edited 03-09-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Thunder Fist (edited 03-09-2005).]

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#101413 - 03/10/05 12:19 AM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You're not going to grab the slide and stop it from recoiling, your not going to count the shots or be able to discern the best course of action from whether or not their finger is on the trigger or pointed forward.
Trying to block the hammer with the web of your hand--dont be stupid. You'll get killed thinking that this is legitimate strategy.

Handguns are not at all innacurate. And they are plenty lethal. Anyone who says otherwise proves that they know nothing about handguns.
Even if they were lacking in accuracy, the distance that we are speaking of renders that inacuracy moot. While a shot from some pistols will likely not kill you instantly ---depending on where the bullet hits--- the heavier calibers will knock the hell out of you, possibly even spin you around. Which pretty much ensures a second shot, which will have the same result, thus ensuring a third shot, so on and so forth, until you're dead. Even where this is not the case, the body goes into shock fairly quickly. If you get shot, you WILL go into shock, very soon, once that happens you can forget about being an effective fighter.

If someone wants to kill you they wont give you a cigarette before hand. Would you?
If you were going to kill someone would you really give two horse's sh++s about their "last request"? No.
Thats hollywood.
Killing does not care. Killing has no room for such trivialities.

Just because someone is robbing you does not at all mean that they are morons. Nor should it be taken as proof that they are "untrained" in the use of firearms.
Training after all can be simple experience.

A lot of toy stores still carry those little plastic guns which shoot tiny pellets or disks. Get one. Hell get a squirt gun. Point it at your training partner. Do this in such a way as to simulate whatever scenario you want to train for. If its a robbery, then just ROB your friend. Rob his ass. If he gives you a hard time, shoot him. Shoot him and keep shooting him.
Once you put yourself in the shooter's perspective, youre going to see just how full of **** people are when they talk about their super ninja tactics for taking guns away from people ready to shoot. Once someone gets a bead on you, if they really know what theyre doing, thats it. There is virtually nothing that you can do (other than comply) that will not get you shot. The only chance that you have is that they make some kind of tactical mistake, which as i implied a moment ago, they will not do if they know what they are doing.

About someone who's serious about killing you--if theyre smart then theyll kill you before you have anything to say. If they are not so smart then they may want to gloat or laugh for a minute...put you at their mercy and ridcule you while you're there--but mostly thats TV. If they want to kill you because theyre in a rage they sure as he11 arent going to waste time laughing, and if they come at you in a premeditated or proffesional manner, again they are not likely to waste time laughing, theyre just going to kill you.

About someone that simply wants to rob you, well again i would say that its entirely situational. ASSUMING that it is just one person--ASSUMING that they are using a handgun, (not in comparison, a mac 10 or sawed off shotgun) and ASSUMING that they are not too smart about it, what I would emphasize is that IF you get a chance, thats all you will get, A chance. One chance. Thats it. Whatever you're going to do, it better work, and it better work the first time, and damn quick to boot, because if it doesnt you WILL get shot.

Its a lot easier to shoot someone thats trying to take a gun away from you than it is to take a gun away from someone that is trying to shoot you. All you have to do to confirm this is get a "gun" and a training partner. Test it out for yourself, from the shooter's perspective.
If i offer anything in the way of tactics, it would be to control the muzzle until the shooter is no longer able to pull the trigger. (Pretty vauge isnt it?) Whether you knock him out or outright kill him, whether you take the gun from his hand or overpower him into submission, whatever, you cannot allow the weapon to remain fixed on you. Thats pretty much all that i can say. Your strategy would be more realistic if it incorporates the likelyhood that the gun WILL go off during the struggle for control. Guns being what they are, when they discharge they tend to do a lot of damage to whatever is in front of them, so make sure that YOU are not among the list of things in front of the weapon when it fires.
Thats it. Sorry for the long post.
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#101414 - 03/11/05 05:16 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Here is a few good reasons to dump the gun.
1) Its someone elses. It could work, it could explode in your hand. It could already be a dirty gun thats killed someone or their family and now your prints are on it.

2) Cops. If the cops get called about a fight with a gun involved and they walk up with the one guy screaming about his broke arm and you clinching his gun, who do you think is going to go to jail? You are. Either because you are going to appear to be the aggreesor or because you simply went too far in defending yourself and you are going to jail for felony assault.

3)He might have another gun. You going to get into a shootout? Going to do it with an unfimiliar weapon that may or may not work properly?

4)By picking up the gun your weapons have been reduced because your focus has changed from protecting yourself to holding this weapon and possibly using it.

Im new to here and the only reason im replying is because i see a trend developing here than people are not seeing. I have to disagree with most of what you just said. You are right about the gun not working and running, but seeing as how i am in law enforcement(i wont disclose where) i can tell you this: If someone has a gun pointed at you and you Feel as though you are going to be seriously injured or killed, you can act with reasonable and necessary force to overcome the situation. Which means breaking the guys arm is acceptable. now if you secure the weapon, run. because killing an unarmed man now becomes murder. On the other hand if you are feeling as though he is going to keep attacking you and possibly take the weapon back and use it, then you are legally acting appropriatly. Just make sure you dont act out of Malice or Punishment, that is not your function. Defending yourself is the only thing you want to do. In my field of work the only necessary force to a threat on life and limb is lethal force.

P.S take a hint from the signature

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#101415 - 03/11/05 05:50 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Well, some good advice. Here in my area though, the cops are rather trigger happy. Especially if some passer by calls them about two guys fighting over a gun. Im not going to touch it after disarming my opponent. Id rather keep him from grabbing it again, that way i dont accidently get capped.

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#101416 - 03/13/05 07:45 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


My best friend ask my sensei this same question and he said "It really just depends on the scenario. Are you up against a wall? If so, stay calm, if he wants your money give it to him. You can always get more money, you only get one life. If he doesn't want money and instead wants your life try to disarm as best you can." To this my friend said, "And if your not against a wall." Sensei said, "Duck and run in zig-zag patterns."

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#101417 - 03/19/05 12:44 AM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


If the gun's right up on your head i would knock his hand to the side and duck at the same time incase it goes off. Keep your hand on his wrist and try to twist it and mabey punch him a few times and eventualy he'll drop the gun. If the gun ends up in your hands THROW IT as hard and as far as possible and if it ends up on the ground kick it a safe distance from the both of you.

Personaly if someone pulled a gun on me i would be PISSED so once the gun's out of reach do your best to kick the hell out of him and teach him a lesson. Do whatever you have to do beat him down and keep him down. Once he's down or gone or whatever go get the gun and take it to a body of water or a nearby dumpster to dispose of it.

It's a risky thing to do (disarming) But most people wouldn't expect you because most people would be scared stiff. So you can ethier:

1. Grab his wrist and pull it away from your head and duck and take your elbow to his ribcage repededley. Once he's in even a little bit of pain do whatever you have to (Snap his wrist, Bite Break hit pull ect...) To get the gun out of his hands.

2. Shuv the hand with the gun aside and hold it away from you and punch as hard as possible in the face then disarm gun.

These are the ways i personaly would do it. They are very risky but atleast you'd die (or be severley injured and if its a headshot most likely paralyzed) Trying.

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#101418 - 03/23/05 06:24 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


its obvious you guys have never been in a situation with a gun pointed at you. If you practice first with a rubber gun, then a squirt gun, then a plastic bb airsoft gun, to a paintball gun, to a metal bb airsoft gun, and if you can a gun with simunition, the actual thing isn't really that scary. Actually go to a range, get a semi-auto handgun grab the barrel tight and pull the trigger, if u do it right u wont be pinched by the slide and the heat of the gun wont be unbearably painful. and only one bullet will discharge. I have used these techniques more than once with a real gun pointed at me, these moves actual work. most of which i got from krav maga
try these moves then critique them, otherwise be quite so u dont get people killed

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#101419 - 03/23/05 08:51 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


While the aforemented methods of grabbing the slide sound good in reason, the blow-back pressure of a fired bullet is stronger than anyone's grip strength. My father was a cop for over 15 years, and I believe his system is the best I've heard so far.
1. If the gun is pointed at your head for longer that 2 seconds, their goal is not to kill you, but to obtain something. Give it to them.
2. If the man pointing the gun at your head is unstable, which may be the case, remind him of his family, religion, and community. NEVER mention jail time.
3. If it becomes a worst-case senario, knock the gun away with as fast and little motion possible, and try for the knock-out. Do not grapple for the gun, it wastes time and leaves you exposed to any back-up weapon (knives especially).
I hope no one will ever have to use this information, but if in this situation, try to follow the above mentioned guidelines.

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#101420 - 03/23/05 10:12 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


While it is easy to say "don't grapple for the gun", I believe that it is inevitable that people will. So, instead of pretending I won't grapple for it, I choose to improve my skills at what I think I will do rather than what someone tells me I shouldn't.

I have trained many LEO and CO and we always work at controling the gun hand and being aware of the muzzle direction.

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#101421 - 03/24/05 06:43 AM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlackNinja15:
its obvious you guys have never been in a situation with a gun pointed at you. If you practice first with a rubber gun, then a squirt gun, then a plastic bb airsoft gun, to a paintball gun, to a metal bb airsoft gun, and if you can a gun with simunition, the actual thing isn't really that scary. Actually go to a range, get a semi-auto handgun grab the barrel tight and pull the trigger, if u do it right u wont be pinched by the slide and the heat of the gun wont be unbearably painful. and only one bullet will discharge. I have used these techniques more than once with a real gun pointed at me, these moves actual work. most of which i got from krav maga
try these moves then critique them, otherwise be quite so u dont get people killed
[/QUOTE]

*Sigh* [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

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