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#101382 - 02/20/05 08:51 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just because he has a gun to my head, doesn't mean he wants my wallet. Its possible he just wants me dead.

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#101383 - 02/21/05 04:56 AM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


lets get realistic, if the guys not a rookie, then you have no change, rememer that a bullet shot from a standard pisol travels at twice the speed of sound, and if u tried 2 fend it off the persons reaction would have 2 be CRAP! there holding it at u and all they need 2 do is squezze the trigger.

If i knew the were gonna shoot me ofcourse i would try something, but its next 2 impossible. Its not the matrix.

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#101384 - 02/21/05 08:21 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


First thing i would do is quickly move my head away from the position of the gun. In a blink of an eye, move your head away, use your arm and push the gun away from your direction. Then dont hestitate or panic and try to get the gun away. Remember, while doing that, point the gun AWAY FROM YOURSELF. The best way to do this is try to hurt his wrist and make him drop the gun or something. Adrenalin Rush would probably give you more power.

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#101385 - 02/22/05 02:17 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1736
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Inferior:
First thing i would do is quickly move my head away from the position of the gun. In a blink of an eye, move your head away, use your arm and push the gun away from your direction. Then dont hestitate or panic and try to get the gun away. Remember, while doing that, point the gun AWAY FROM YOURSELF. The best way to do this is try to hurt his wrist and make him drop the gun or something. Adrenalin Rush would probably give you more power.

[/QUOTE]

I wrote the story below in another thread similar to this one about a year ago. Although if I thought the assailant was going to pull the trigger, I'd try to react somewhat as described (Move head away while simultaneously grabbing the gun hand and pushing it away from my head, then push- twisting the barrel vertically towards the assailants wrist with my other hand, hopefully breaking at least his trigger finger in the process), this anecdote should serve as a caution to the over- confident:

"A "sea story" for you guys:
I have a friend who has been (And remains, now in "Masters" class) a successful Karate tournament competitor. A little more than 10 yrs. ago he participated and won Grand Champion in a fairly large tournament that was held in a somewhat remote town. After the tournament he celebrated his victory with a "tail gate" party in the parking lot of the arena where the competition was held. As a result, it was very late at night when this more- than- slightly- impaired "Champ" started making his way home via a very narrow, dark, winding road.
About a quarter of the way there, a man appeared in the middle of the road just before a curve, frantically waving him to stop. Suspecting the worst, he instead floored the gas and swerved around the fellow, in order to get away. As it turned out, the guy was waving him down because he'd just stalled out beyond the curve and his car was in the middle of the road. My friend, going fast and more than slightly inebriated (Heh, heh, heh!!)... Weeeell, you guessed it, he ploughed into the other fellas car, but good!!!
After the obligatory "Oh, s..ts", "G..damns" and "Why didn't you..."s the both of them (As it turns out, the other guy was also not at his best, it being a Saturday night and his having been partying as well!) decided to sit and wait for the police to show up, an unlikely event indeed in that remote location (But such are the miraculous effects of alcohol consumption upon the brain!!!).
After about an hour of sitting around, another car, with about 5 individuals in street clothes, stopped. The men got out and fanned out around my friend and the other fellow. As this was going on, the driver approached and said he was a police officer and asked what had happened. The other driver (Who was the drunker of the 2) started giving this man the particulars of the accident. My friend, though, had in the interim sobered up somewhat (Not enough, though, as you'll see!!) to take note that:
1. These new arrivals weren't uniformed, and detectives don't get hands- on involved in traffic accidents.
2. Cops don't patrol 5 to a car.
3. There was no radio chatter coming from the "police vehicle".
Whereupon he took it upon himself to demand I.D. from "Officer Friendly". The man obliged him by pulling out a .45 Auto, clapping it to his head and saying: "Motherf...er, stand still." By then the rest of the "officers" had also drawn guns.
Now my buddy was an accomplished tournament fighter, but had never used his Karate for self- defense. He'd often said that he felt a need to test himself in a real situation, but being the good- natured soul that he was he defused those confrontations that he got into with his quick wit and sense of humor. But now, he later recounted, HERE was his chance against genuine bad guys in a real "Do or die" situation.
So, his brain still floating warmly in a sizable pond of good rum, he suddenly pivoted and swung out with a sword hand strike, aiming for the wrist of the mugger still holding the .45 to his head. And half way into the strike, the mope pulled the trigger... And the gun failed to fire!!! Probably because this street punk's (Like most of his ilk) only knowledge of guns was that you pressed the trigger and it went "Bang!". He would probably have been floored by the notion that you have to occassionally clean the thing, or it WOULDN'T go "Bang!"
In any case, my buddy exultantly followed through with his strike and successfully knocked arm and gun from his head... Only to have it promptly cracked by another of the muggers, who whacked him with his gun barrel ("Buffaloed" him, Wyatt Earp would've called it) smartly on the noggin'.
So, instead of winding up robbed of his money and possesions and left by the side of the road, he wound up robbed of his money and possesions and left lying ON the road half concious with a bleeding gourd to show for his trouble... And sending his thanks in prayer to the Blessed Virgin, the gods, his fairy godmother or WHOMEVER had let him live after making such a damn fool of himself!!!"



[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#101386 - 02/22/05 02:42 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Someone mentioned grabbing the slide saying that it won't let the gun recoil and therefor you won't get shot. The recoil happens after the gun is shot. On semi autos, a bullet is in the chamber, and the hammer is cocked. Pulling the trigger will drop the hammer causing it to fire. After it shoots, the slide goes back ejecting the spent cartride, loads another, and pulls the hammer back for a second shot. So grabbing the barrel, and just holding it, will get you shot assuming the guy had it cocked before sticking you up. I would give them what they wanted, but if you want to defend, I would say block the gun out of the way and continue from there.

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#101387 - 02/22/05 03:20 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree if its not a life and death situation give them what they want, don't loose your life for money of possesions.

If a guy points a gun at my head and he talking and gettng closer as he talking, it gives you time to work. The safest move is to trap the hand while 1st get out of the line of fire, I like to evading the barelle my hands to deflect and trap using my body as fulcrum to break the elbow, sticky leg his feet. And follow with a back elbow to the throat, temple or face. Gun back into him.

Grabbing the slide and sliding it back out of battery will jam a auto and stop it from firing. Regradless of if it has a round in chamber.

With a revolver grabbing the cyclinder of a double action or placing the thumb behind the trigger or hammer. Will stop it from firing, This is a time consuming and hard to do effort, with a moving thrashing assailant.
But its all a crap shot in this situation.
The safest things is to get out of the line of fire and hurt him bad.

If the person walks up and shoots, your only hope is to floor roll into him, striking his grion/vitals and raising up striking his elbow with your shoulder snapping his elbow. This is a move based on luck and being in the right place if he misses something vital. But its better then bending over kissing you A$$ good bye.

There is no counter for this if he just walks up and shoots you with a gun. If he misses you got a chance, if your eyes are still open.

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#101388 - 02/22/05 07:36 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Excellent post MAgon and a point well made, but I wonder how your friend would have felt had he chose not to act at all and still got hurt or shot?

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#101389 - 02/22/05 07:57 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


It might not be a bad idea to actually fire some of these guns a few times before developing any set-in-stone tactics for grabbing them.

Good post MAGon.

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#101390 - 02/22/05 08:38 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You guys actually need to study how guns work in order to come up with practical defenses.
First of all there is no need to count the shots.
Secondly if it is a semi-auto and you grip the barrel firmly and dont allow the slide to move back, only 1 round comes out, but the casing is still in the slide, the attacker has to pull the slide back and eject the casing in order to continue firing; if you choose you can let go of the weapon and use both hands to subdue the enemy.
Thirdly it doesn't matter if you move the gun inside or outside, just as long as it is the shortest distance off your body.
If you are looking for practical weapon disarms, either email me with the subject 'disarms' or look for krav maga instructors or videos at www.kravmaga.com or if your looking for military fighting skills and disarms go look at www.trsdirect.com the prices are kinda high, but the information is well worth it.

[This message has been edited by BlackNinja15 (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#101391 - 02/23/05 02:41 PM Re: Someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1736
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Excellent post MAgon and a point well made, but I wonder how your friend would have felt had he chose not to act at all and still got hurt or shot? [/QUOTE]

Chen: The point I try to make in these types of post isn't that inaction is always the best recourse. The point I try to make is that CONSIDERED ACTION is the way to go. You and I have agreed on that in other posts inre the actual fight. But I think it's self evident that it must also come into play before you start to rock 'n roll. E.g.: A gunman is standing 15 feet away, already has a bead on you and is giving you his undivided attention. If you attack, the likeliest consequence is that you'll get shot. If you don't react at that point, then you're at least not giving him an excuse. Perhaps just taking your money will suffice and he'll leave, with the only wound to you being your ego. However, given the same set of circumstances and the guy already has my money (Or car, whatever), if that hammer starts moving back, you bet I'm going to try something. Now the circumstances have changed to that the likelier result of not attacking is getting shot for sure, while if I attack there's the one in a million lucky chance of doing something useful. As always, it boils down to taking your best read of a situation and acting accordingly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChooseURbattles:
It might not be a bad idea to actually fire some of these guns a few times before developing any set-in-stone tactics for grabbing them.

Good post MAGon.
[/QUOTE]

Y'know, I remember an article on gun disarms some years ago in which the author tabulated the number of attempts tried by LEOs vs. the ones that were succesful. One of the byproducts of his research was that the majority of succesful disarms were done by officers with a strong background in weapons, while those with a MA background did poorly.
In fact, the disarm which I very hastily described in my original post depends on the second hand (The one that actually performs the disarm) smacking/ pushing/ twisting the pistol with a semi- cupped hand (Fingers inboard and open, index knuckle ideally up against the trigger guard). The fingers actually close around the gun only when the assailants trigger finger is wrenched away from the trigger. If the gun is a semi- auto and the gunman fires with the defenders' fingers wrapped around the slide, suffice it to say that the recoiling slide will DEFINITELY break the grip quite painfully (To say nothing of the damage the front sight would very likely do to the fingers). Even grabbing a revolver barrel in this way and having it fired could very well result in the grip being broken by flinching from the recoil and the heat (Put your hand up against a just- fired revolver barrel, you'll see what I mean).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlackNinja15:
...if it is a semi-auto and you grip the barrel firmly and dont allow the slide to move back, only 1 round comes out, but the casing is still in the slide, the attacker has to pull the slide back and eject the casing in order to continue firing; if you choose you can let go of the weapon and use both hands to subdue the enemy...[/QUOTE]

From your writing the above, I can see you've never tried to hold onto the slide of a semi- auto as it fires. PLEASE DON'T TRY IT!!!!!



[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 02-23-2005).]

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