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#100768 - 01/05/05 04:52 AM New To This Site

Hey Guys im Jay. Im new to the site, Ive posted a few alread but thuaght it would be polite to introduce myself. Hope I havent offended people wiht my post if so I apologize.

Im 19, Always been interested in Fighting and Martial Arts.

And I hope I can contribute and help out here.

Oyeah I do Tong Long. Im pretty sure noone has heard of it. but ive been doing that for a while, and just trained with people few other styles nothing to hard core though.

#100769 - 01/05/05 05:06 AM Re: New To This Site

Hello and welcome,
Could you please explain Tong Long and its' background?
"Train til' you die"
All American Goju Karate


#100770 - 01/05/05 07:53 AM Re: New To This Site
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Here's a link to a forum which will ultimately become very worthy on it's own

Please take this invitation to join and feel free to come discuss your martial arts training with us.

This forum is slowly going to the dogs.



#100771 - 01/05/05 09:57 AM Re: New To This Site

Thanks, Ok TongLong there are several different Southern Praying Mantis styles. This is the history and way ive been tuaght.

Chow Gar Tong Long


About 200 years ago a boy named Chow Ah Naam was sent to the shoaling temples as a cook in search of a cure of his stomach problems. After several years of training his Unknown stomach problems was cured threw his training. There was a student at this temple that used to bully Chow Ah Naam, the bullies skill was greater than his own. One day while Chow Ah Naam was walking through the gardens, Chow Ah Naam noticed a bird trying to catch and eat a praying mantis. Try as it might, the bird could not attack the mantis without being struck first. (The mantis' forelimbs are powerful tools, able to strike with force, to impale, to seize and to pull a would-be assailant). The bird, defeated and bloody, left the mantis and went in search of easier prey. Seeing this, Chow Ah Naam thought he might be able to improve his own gung fu if he learned how to fight like the Praying Mantis. He caught several mantids and secretly studied and learnt their techniques. From this research, Chow ah Naam created his art. The next time the bully came to pick on Chow Ah Naam, Chow Ah Naam used his newly learned skills and defeated the bully. When the senior monks were told about this they took him aside and took the major strengthening exercises out of styles like Dragon, Tiger, White Crane Chi-Gung (Breathing Exercises) and many more styles to complete Chow Ah Naam's new art. Which is known as "Chow Gar Tong Long". Chow Gar is the family of which it came from and Tong Long is Translated to Praying Mantis. This has made it on of the purest forms of Kung fu to come from the Shaolin Temples into day’s western world.

The system passed from Chow Ah Naam down to Wong Fook Go and then to Lau Sui. Lau Sui traveled from China to Hong Kong where he met Ip Shui and passed the system on to him.
Until about 60 or 70 years ago, only Hakka Chinese people (Hakka means "Northern Guest") were allowed to learn it. Relatively, recently, the schools have opened their doors to other Chinese people and later, non-Chinese. Ip Shui is, in fact, one of the first non-Hakka to be taught Chow Gar (Sigung Ip Shui is Cantonese).

Many stylist like Jackie Chan, Samo Hung and Angela Mao all started there Martial Arts training with "Praying Mantis" Jacky Chan to Pak-Mei there much softer and graceful styles added to the aggression and the force of the Praying Mantis

What it is

First and foremost, Chow Gar Southern Praying Mantis Gung Fu is a highly efficient self-defense martial art.

The training methods are entirely applicable in self-defense situations because the form and function of this style are the same. Strikes (including blocks) are executed in the most economical manner possible. Most individual techniques have more than one application and often these applications are used simultaneously. An example could be a blocking technique that both attacks the assailant and deflects his attack at the same time.

Further, each technique is designed to cause maximum injury through knowledge of the body's vital points. The basic weapon (i.e. "fist" or "hand") used in the style is known as the phoenix-eye fist, which features a single extended knuckle. The phoenix-eye fist is a multi-purpose weapon but it's first function is to strike the body's sensitive vital points using the protruding knuckle. By focusing the power of the strike into a small point, the energy in the strike can penetrate deep into the attacker's body, causing serious internal injury.

Other economical features of this art include avoiding the use of high kicks, leaps and other aerobatics. Much time is saved because strikes emanate from the current position of the hand concerned (rather than first being "chambered" or "cocked"). Man-made weapons are used without modifying the empty-hand techniques.

Chow Gar Southern Praying Mantis Gung Fu is considered a "high" system.

It emphasizes the cultivation of Chi as a fundamental aspect of the art. Chi power is an integral component of the style, being both required for the development and execution of effective techniques. Simultaneously with improving martial technique, chi work brings with it the benefits of increased long-term health and well-being. These features contribute to an extended active life with a lesser degree of general deterioration (e.g. brittleness in bones or loss of sensory function).

We don't recommend people using Pheonix eye off the mark becuase it will prolly brake ya finger. We also like Knee's, Elbows, Hammer Fist, we will use any part of the body if we can to cuase damage to our oppenent. We also get the Iron body we focus alot of conditioning and we train 3 Hrs 3x a week mainly we its doing into the dark we dont really train much in the day.

Our Saying Though Is "Start your hands that come from your heart and remember,You don't come, I don't start."

Hope this is of some help. I can get carried away with my art. Ive also done 14th centuary sword fighting, basic Thai boxing and TKD and judo.

#100772 - 01/05/05 11:59 AM Re: New To This Site

Give it a chance. We'll get back on track.


#100773 - 01/05/05 01:05 PM Re: New To This Site
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Fletch -

I'm certainly not leaving this forum. Even as wacked as it gets at times, I'm not one to run from any "heat".

That said, I do want you and everyone else to know that a new forum is starting up and that we'd like to extend some invitations.

There's NO WAY I could leave this place after a stay of two years now. [IMG][/IMG]


#100774 - 01/05/05 04:36 PM Re: New To This Site

JKogas, you used to be a member of ?? I know you from somewhere. Or ?

#100775 - 01/05/05 07:14 PM Re: New To This Site

Hello MantisFist,

I've done some 7 star praying mantis, Very different. I think I've seen southern mantis before.
Please correct me if I'm wrong,
In 7 star- it flowed like the typical northern style.
Southern mantis doesn't move much; But, it hits like a human machine gun.
So it's kind of like White eyebrow- which itself is very scary to face.
I think they're both hakka styles.


#100776 - 01/05/05 07:39 PM Re: New To This Site
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MantisFist:
JKogas, you used to be a member of ?? I know you from somewhere. Or ?[/QUOTE]

Yep, I belonged to ONE of those sites. It think it was "".

Come on over to the new forum. I can guarantee civil discussion and civil debate.



#100777 - 01/05/05 08:47 PM Re: New To This Site


Nice to meet you. Tong Long (cantonese pronunciation) is certainly a well-respected style. In mandarin, it'll be Tang Lang (the more familiar pronunciation)

I am Hakka myself and just for general interest the word 'hakka' stands for --"hak" means 'guest' and 'ka' or 'gar' (as in chow gar) means 'family, clan or a particular group of people' So hakka means the 'guest people'

You mentioned 'northern guest' -- it was certainly true that the pattern of migration was from north to south. Every time we were 'chased' out of a province in the north and attempted to settle in a more southerly province, we were naturally called 'northern guest'

We were therefore the 'gypsies' of old China, without a home province unlike the cantonese who have canton province and the hokkiens in fukien province. The cantonese were well known for their 'choy lay fut, wing chun, hung gar' and the hokiens for 'five ancestors' which I believe have a great historical influence on the development of okinawan karate.

The hakkas being 'gypsies' therefore had to travel all over old china in search of a livelihood and in whichever province they settled, and being 'guests', they had to adopt the customs and sometimes even modified the original hakka dialect to accommodate the indigenous population. Which is why sometimes when one hakka meets another hakka, they may not fully understand each others' lingo. My ancestors happened to settled in canton province and so our dialect have a heavy cantonese accent.

The hakkas have other MA styles, such as phoenix-eye (as a complete system by itself) and the sister art of butterfly-palm.

It is interesting to note also that your tong long 'phoenix-eye' fist is formed by the thumb and index finger, whereas in the phoenix-eye fist that I know it is formed by the thumb, the index plus the middle finger. This is because in a straight forward strike (like an ordinary forward thrust punch)the thumb/index fist is more appropriate; whereas in certain phoenix-eye strikes, a kind of side-way strike is used, where the hand, parallel to the ground, is swung from one side of the body to the other. The thumb/index/middle-finger fist feels more natural and stronger as the middle finger is longer and the 'fist' is actually bent towards the forearm. This 'fist' is meant for very close range combat whenever an incoming attack is deflected and the attacker's rib and liver areas are exposed. There are of course ancillary power training exercises to 'train' this 'side-way' strike.

Perhaps you would like to tell us some of tong long's peculiar or distinctive features which sets it apart from other systems?

You also mentioned 'chi' being a part of your training. May be you like to elaborate?
This appears to be of great interest to a lot of Forum members at the moment; certainly to me. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 01-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 01-05-2005).]

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