intimidation as a valid form of self defense?

I read an interesting article on the Shaolin monks a while back, pertaining to their life and such. It went on to deal with their appearance in which it speculated that they dressed in a very unique way, bright colors, dramatic cuts, in order to be easily identified as Shaolin monks. This was not to be intended as a ‘hey, look at me’, but in itself a sort of deterrent to would-be-trouble-makers, stating that they were no one to mess with. This led me on to ponder on my fellows at the mma gym I train at, and their common appearance traits, such as the shaved head, the tattoos, and always wearing the ‘MMA, MAN ENOUGH?!’ shirts everywhere.
The question: could this in its own right, be a form of self defense? Self defense through intimidation? The shaved head and tats saying ‘I’m Hardcore’, the shirts reading “SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BLOOD BANK, TRAIN FOR THE CAGE!”. Its all a billboard reading of your knowledge of ‘fighting’, which, in hopes, could deter would be troublemakers. Could there be something to this?

Thoughts and opinions?

Maybe...I am bald, big (sort of) and tattooed. But I always thought that it was my level-headed demeanor and "aw, forget it and let me buy you a beer" attitude that kept me out of trouble [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG].

Seriously, the "intimidation" factor may work for some, but I would not rely on it. Back about 13 yrs ago or so when I was an undergrad black belt and training 6 days a week, I was not shy about sharing my love of MA with others. This guy in my dorm saw this as a challenge to his masculinity (I must admit to not being so innocent back then - I did my fair share of macho posturing. If only I were wiser then, I could have avoided a few altercations. Live and learn, man, live and learn...).

Anyway, the fact that I lived and breathed MA did not stop him from challenging me to a fight about once a semester for a couple of years straight. These were stupid skirmishes, and I was lucky he never involved weapons or friends. The only reason these happened was because I "advertised" my MA training, and about begged people to test my skills.

In short, I think sometimes those who look and act "bad" often get tested more than those who try to fly under the radar. I'm not saying to look like a wimpy victim, but I don't believe in acting the tough guy anymore either.

Peace,
Mike

Eh, the problem is that it can go either way. I could walk around on the street with some sort of "black belts R Us" t-shirt on, and probably half the people would think "stay away from that guy."

But the other half would be thinking "Yeah? Bet I could kick HIS ass."

Speaking personally I prefer flying under the radar. I only start getting intimidating when it looks like its absolutely necessary.

I don't about the shirts and so on in terms of mma training, but intimidation is definately a method of self defense.

I am 6'2". Height has its advantages. :-)
I didn't realize this until one winter when I was wearing a long coat. A client of mine mentioned that other clients that didn't know me just called me the "guy in the long coat" and said it was very intimidating. That was not my intent but it demonstrated the point that intimidation can be self defense.

I think it is a double edged sword.
Yes, some may be intimidated, but as stated above others may think I could take him-then start something.

Shaved head just makes sense in grappling. Long hair gets caught and pulled, flops in face, etc.

As for the tattoo thing-I think that is just the culturally accepted "in" thing now. That and piercing.

yes, agree agree. yes, size does add intimidation, wich adds some validity to the issue. also, could not a demonstration of skill once the altercation has started give the opponent some second thoughts? ie show him u know what you're doin? but like yall said, it could just add to the antagonization of their manhood.


ps: btw, i'm not lookin' to start being a bully to be Mr. Toughy McCoolguy, just so ya'll kno... just wondered ya'lls thoughts on the idea

[This message has been edited by kobra_kai (edited 04-19-2005).]

[QUOTE]Shaved head just makes sense in grappling. Long hair gets caught and pulled, flops in face, etc.

As for the tattoo thing-I think that is just the culturally accepted "in" thing now. That and piercing.[/QUOTE]


looks tough, though, right????

I don't know, I'll go ask someone if my shaved head and single tat makes me look tough.

Somehow, I doubt it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Where I grew up the standard philosiphy was that in a situation of altercation if you take out the biggest toughest guy in the group they would leave you alone, and 9 times out of 10 it worked. So the most intimidating guy was always the first target. I find confidence can be more intimidating than anything. As for the shaved head and tatoo/pierced they will be the ones bothered by the police the most so if you are clean cut you can get away with a little more.

I have tatoo's but I love my hair will never shave head. keep hair short enough you cant grab a hand full though. I have a jacket and shirt from my school I where them proudly and smartly, don't where them to a bar on Sat. night. Dont brag about your abilities I discus the arts lots but thats all.

Dan

the shoalin's shaved heads looked tough [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

Dan, I respectfully disagree with the theory of taking out the big guy first. That will most likely end with you laying in your own blood. Surely a group of people intent on doing harm are not going to attack one at a time.

i always had a plan if i went to prison, the first day i'd find the biggest guy there and bite him in the throat, just to show everybody i mean business.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kobra_kai:
i always had a plan if i went to prison, the first day i'd find the biggest guy there and bite him in the throat, just to show everybody i mean business.[/QUOTE]

If that's your plan you won't be around the 2nd day.
It's always good to make plans just incase you go to prison though. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

alright smarty pants, what would u do? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG]

Stay out of prison.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Stay out of prison.[/QUOTE]


touche'. however, the boyscouts said always be prepared. i'm sure they had prison in mind.

btw, does anybody know if i was on target with the shaolin info?

I was kicked out of the boyscouts for fighting. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] (I was stupid.)
I don't know about the monks,but they do play a mind game with the chi demos,which are parlor tricks,so it is possible.

p.s. I started a thread in the talk section about the big guy theory,hope it gets a good debate.

fighing in boyscouts??!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

My two cents? Yes, it's a double edged sword, because there's a very fine line between being just intimidating enough and being challenging. I haven't read anything about the Shaolins in this regard, but I bet they just limited themselves to wearing togs that clearly identified them as coming from that temple. I bet the 'tude, though, WASN'T a challenging one, rather it would probably be low key and their abilities were NEVER a topic of conversation. I also bet it had the desired effect 999 times out of a 1,000, but that there was ALWAYS someone who was self- worth challenged enough to try them out.
Contrast that to what could be considered the more assertive shaved dome, tats and "I'm Bad" T- shirt (I'M NOT SAYING THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE 'EM DELIBERATELY SET OUT TO CHALLENGE FOLKS, merely that it SEEMS more often than not to be perceived that way). Add to that frequent talk about MA, and it's like waving a red flag at a bull when an ego- challenged dimwit is around. Yes, it would work mostly, but less than the probable low key approach of the monks, IMHO.

I think intimidation is a factor in deterring an attack. But once its starts its what kind of skill do you have that counts.
The Monks probbaly did use this to deterr wrong doers.

The Monks did use intimidation just as a Peace Officers does, you know he has some authority. I believe, yes they were considered a deterant to wrong doers. But the most intimidating fact was probably there confidence and ability to ignore/stop or approach wrong doers and unskilled challenges without seriously hurting anyone.
Unless they had to, so they were intimidating because they were skilled, bad
asses.

What alerts me is not the guy boastering I'm bad kind of guy. Its the guy that obiviously fit and trained saying, "Oh I know alittle bit about what I'm doing". Usually thats the real BADASS. Some times the bald tattoo guy thats wolfing is just like a barking dog, you approach and he'll runs. But sometimes you approach and he'll tear you a new a$$. Some are wolfing because they really are Bad.

Its been long taught to attack the biggest guy in the group because it will deterr the others. But like Sanchin31 stated it may keep you occupied longer, then just ballasting the 1st guy that gets in range. Big guys don't want there nosed broke either.

As for the 1st day biting the biggest baddest guy in thorat in prison, its garranteed that you won't wake up in the mourning after U get out solidtary confinement. Now if you wait until he or they approach you and take him out. Then you are a big man in the joint, you have gained their respect. There are rules in the prison, you break them you die or becomes somebody bitch. Timing is everything.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Dan, I respectfully disagree with the theory of taking out the big guy first. That will most likely end with you laying in your own blood. Surely a group of people intent on doing harm are not going to attack one at a time.[/QUOTE]

Sanchin, How many times have you been involved in an altercation where there were say 4 maybe 5 guys preying on the lone man. I have seen 9 and been involved with 3 out of those nine. In each one the biggest or leader has followers they are weaker and not as nervy once they see the leader fall. Now in these situations if you don't end it with in the first min you are in for a hell of a battle. I dont waite for an invitation and react before they get to worked up. All nine times the followers dispersed after a few choice words were exchanged.

Thanks for disagreing thats what makes life interesting.
Dan

How many times? Well let's see uhhh, being the bar brawling streetfighter that I am it's hard to keep track,ummm NONE! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Dan, Whatever works for you! Use it!!

This is what happened today to me coming back from training. I was wearing the uniform we have which involves a red t-shirt with the ying yang symbol and some black pants. I was in the tube and these two dudes were looking at me kinda strangely. They came up to me and asked me if I do martial arts, I replied with a nod.
Then they asked me, in an agressive manner, if i thought i could beat them up.
I told them that just had my first lesson this week and that i am not very good.
They then left me alone.

So i guess me wearing my uniform actually did the opposite, it attracted them.
And then me acting all week, dettered them.

P.S. I would have loved to put those cocky bas..... in their place [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

I often wear my Goju school t-shirts to work,out,etc..
Sometimes people will ask about it out of curiosity.Some get seemingly put off by it," what do you think you're bad or something?" I explain that martial arts has nothing to do with being bad.
I haven't had any problems in many years of wearing them,often they are a good conversation starter and let's me see some interests.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
I often wear my Goju school t-shirts to work,out,etc..
Sometimes people will ask about it out of curiosity.Some get seemingly put off by it," what do you think you're bad or something?" I explain that martial arts has nothing to do with being bad.
I haven't had any problems in many years of wearing them,often they are a good conversation starter and let's me see some interests.[/QUOTE]

I've had similar things happen over T- shirts. Nobody's been as aggressive as what you describe, but I HAVE been called about it. My standard response?: "Nah, someone gave it to me. I wear it to scare people off!" So far, it always ends with the person giving me an amused, pitying smile and walking off. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

there's nothing scarier then someone with the devil's look in his eyes, if you see this no matter what you will be genuinely scared


whether that deters you or not is another matter, I wouldn't know too well, the only way I know of it is when others look in my eyes when I'm angry at injustice

but I'll tell you one thing, I keep a quite humble appearance mostly, I have a hoody, but it's pretty big and sloppy, and it's not well kept, my eyes and facial expression is pretty blank most often and I look laid back, so people don't think of me, but if they do, I am fully ready to show how scary anger can be, and if that fails, the third and final defense is skill and brutality

humbleness, intimidation, violence

It's double-edged indeed, and for many reasons.

Imagine for a second that you're a mugger.

First scenario: you see what looks like a weak and humble person. You attack with a knife. The guy appears not to be the feeble person you thought and you end up in a nasty stranglehold without knowing what happened.
Good! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Second scenario: you see a tough-looking tattooed guy with shaved head and visual evidence of MA practice. You decide not to attack, and go and pick another victim.
Good! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Third scenario: you see a tough-looking tattooed guy with shaved head and visual evidence of MA practice. You think a knife might not be enough, and decide to go for a gun attack instead.
Bad! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

Looking hard may discourage some, but those who won't get discouraged will know exactly what to expect and can adapt accordingly to take YOU by surprise. While hiding your skills won't give them that chance, and will give you the element of surprise, a capital key to victory...

I would personally rather be attacked once a week with bare hands than once a year with a gun.