how to defend against theese type of attackers?

http://www.skoopy.com/show2.php?id=939&type=VID

in the video the two fighters are just hammering away at each other with no defence.

now i've never fought against someone who just hammers away at the head and has practically no defence, so i was wondering, whats the best way to defend against a person who fights like this? theese kinda people just gets on top of you and starts hammering away at your head.

The guy on the bottom could have finished that one quickly...he had the triangle choke pretty much locked in if he had realized what he was doing. You should get a partner and practice being on the bottom and him punching at you...this will be the best way for you to get used to that position. A good way to keep the guy on top there from just bombing away at you would be to pull him in to you...that way you take most of his range of motion for those big punches away...from there you can work a guy like that guy was(stupid) pretty easily and keep from gettin yourself hurt in the process. Practice is very critical....as you saw everything happens fast so you cant lay there thinkin forever, you have to be able to react quickly. Theres always lots of possibilities...im sure others will post different suggestions so you pick....but all of them require practice to learn it well enough to actually be able to do it under pressure.

I would defend first and strike second.

In all the chaos that erupts, I would sort of step myself back to get a clear picture of what exactly is happening. These guys are obviously untrained and sort of just wailing carelessly. I wouldn't let them get close enough to wail in the first place. If the guy somehow manages to hammer away, I would have to get him to the ground and take control of him and end it right then and there.

-s.o.b.

Inexpeirenced fighters (I've been there) tend to just go crazy in a fight, hitting as fast and as hard as they can, throwing wild swings; just running off of pure madness.....
If taking a martial art though or even just having frequent sparring match with your freind in the back yard, you have one thing that can give you an edge against that insanity, Disipline.
To win at fights the main deal is to keep your head on and not go crazy like those lads there.
Like GroundAndPound2000 said, you've got to be able think and react fast. Thats where training helps.

If I where in a postion like that, where the was guy on top of me trying pound me to a pulp, my act would probably be to try and slide out from under him. People often leave "holes" in their pins (pin being a very loose connotation of the word judgeing from the video), weakness that are easy to exploit. Like the chap on the bottom there, had his legs up to push the attacker back, by twisting and moveing his legs one way and his upper body the opposite he probably could have rolled the guy over. Or at least put him in a less advantageous position. The Idea about pulling him close is a good one.

Well i thier are a couple ways to deal with that (from what i know). one way would be to get under hooks on him and keep him real tight to you. then start kick him in his kidneys with your heels and punching him. the next would be to try to sweep him. probably put him in spider guard and then sweep him. at one point in the video the attacker stands up. this is pretty good for you because you can curve your knees inward so they are touching and then grab his ankles and push up with your legs while pulling his ankles foward. however i must say the people in that video were obviously a bunch of dumb asses.

That is how a brawl goes. Even experienced boxers have been ko'd in flurries like that by much less skilled opponents.

If you are not a much better striker, it seems like the only time when it slows down enough to set anything up is in the clinch or on the ground.

The smaller guy has some wrestling skills. He got stalled on the double leg but pulled off a nice reversal that put the big guy on his back.

As a Muay Thai enthusiast, allow me to say simply KNEE. Woulda turned that akward hold into a knockout. Just my opinion.


- Op. Skinny Ninja

Knee? Maybe. Maybe not.

Kinda silly to look at positions untrained brawlers get into and try to insert your techniques in as quick solutions to their problems.

Those guys had bigger problems than not knowing how or when to knee strike.

Just like I don't look at a street fight that ends up with a mounted combatant punching the other into oblivion and say "Just bridge!".

[This message has been edited by Fletch1 (edited 02-02-2005).]

Just my opinion, Fletch. Its a thread about what you'd do in that kind of fight, and I posted thusly. It was what I would've tried.. course, you are right, these guys are swinging like angry sixth graders. Always wonder how streetfights would work if nobody scored a lucky punch or ran out of stamina in a few quick, wild punches.

- Op. Skinny Ninja

No worries.

If you sit back long enough someone will always give a technical answer to a tactical question. The only problem is that it starts to snowball as other martial arts people try to argue that their technique is better and pretty soon we lose sight of the original scenario and it becomes just another opportinity to hypothesize about our training.

Not a dig on you. I see it all the time though and wanted to head it off before we had others jump in with their "move".

These kinds of fighters are easy to stop but you've got to control the situation from the beginning. If they are charging at you head-on, drop low under their arms and move towards them, to either side at a 45 degree angle, take out a knee or strike to the groin as they pass. Either one will set up the next punch ...hammer to the temple...4 knuckle to the back of the skull...something like that. From behind reach around under their chin and pull them towards you for a takedown. Finish with a stomp to the solar plexus followed by a knee drop to the chest and a palm to the nose. That should take the fight out of them. If you go to the ground you'd better be well versed on grappling techniques. In my opinion if you go to the ground, you screwed up.

Damn, that is precisely how I fight! Not that I've been in one for a long time. I've gotten fat and old, and not entirely sure I could do it anymore. But back then I was built very lightly, 5'9" and 120 lbs. I had a very poor sense of balance and that, along with my low weight, always made me afraid that I could be knocked down rather easily ... so it was like a reflex to use forward momentum, to fall into the opponent almost. I'm no martial artist, but in terms of street situations it always seemed to work just fine the few times I found myself in a situation. One hand to grab the opponent by the shoulder, neck, whatever, restricting their movement and acting to gauge distance and location, and the other to just hammer at his face as rapidly as possible, with a particular attention to preventing sight and causing as much confusion as possible, to beat down any resistance the opponent has.

It came entirely instinctually, which has its advantages! Fear and adrenaline, instead of causing confusion and hesitation, actually enhance its effectiveness. A friend once came to my apartment, talking on about all the moves and fancy blocks he'd learned in ... jujitsu? ... not sure anymore ... anyway, at one point he asks me to hit him. I declined, he insisted, and so I did what came naturally, grabbing his shirt at the shoulder and throwing a punch at his face. Well, the hand on his shoulder confused him, I think, he tripped backwards, broke my coffee table and ended up sort of half-sprawled amidst the wreckage against the side of the couch. Fortunately the punch didn't contact. And this after I'd been wide-eyed watching him explain all these blocks and techniques and thinking, well, I hope he's around if ever some drunks decide to have a go at us on the street!

The thing I think is that you can't think during a fight, things have to come naturally. He wasn't that far along, and though he could perform all this stuff in an ideal situation, if conditions were not the way he expected them, he was unprepared and it caused hesitation, even though he might be utterly confident going in. Instinct is natural and instantaneous. Train enough, and alot of more advanced maneuvers might become habit, that is, instinctual. And so if you're habitualized to dealing with this type of attack through some technique or another, in a street situation I suppose you can prevail rather easily, but merely knowledge of a defense is not enough.

Dullblade - quote - "In all the chaos that erupts, I would sort of step myself back to get a clear picture of what exactly is happening."

Very idealistic! In a street confrontation, I think this kind of thinking is bad. It's almost like you've got an instinct to hesitate just thinking about this kind of situation. In practice, you don't have time to step back and reflect on the situation. This kind of attack seems to stun people through sheer ferocity, before a blow even lands and, as my recollection above illustrates, without shouting or intimidation or even a lack of confidence on the part of the target. I can't answer to the idea that you'd never let an attacker of this kind get so close except to say that in close quarters you often don't have a choice. Your first instinct cannot be to make room for yourself! Not in a street situation.

For the standup portion.........keep your hands up and throw a straight right.

LOL, it's easy to say what to do when you're not the one in there getting pounded.

You have to train for that situation. Get a partner and tell him to rip you a new one, as the saying goes. Exaclty what those guys did, your partner needs to do.

It all comes down to training and experience. If you havent trained for that situation and experienced it, you might get your butt handed to you.

I miss those days of streetfights. The excitement,fear,andraline,and pain. Sadly, those days are outnumbered. You can study martial arts for 11 years and be easily taken out by a guy who just bought a gun 10 minutes ago. D**** those people who invented guns! Skills don't matter no more.
(sigh)However,it was us humans to blame.Animals are allowed to fight without fear of being shot by another animal.They can test their skills.Can't the same to humans.The days of a warrior is over.