Can fighting skill be taught?

Some people seem to view Karate, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Tai-Chi, etc. as mystical fighting systems that, once learned, allow the practitioner to kick butt anywhere, anytime. I'm sure that anyone here with real martial arts experience will be familiar with the fact that certain students learn slower and have more difficulty with various techniques than others. I have met people who I thought were hopeless in the martial arts, and others who seemed gifted. Teaching a particular style is one thing: but maybe effective fighting technique is something that cannot be taught. That would explain why some black belts cannot defend themselves in a real fight and some white belts can. Any opinions?

[This message has been edited by neckbreaker (edited 07-13-2004).]

yes.
I beleve that even slow learners can lern to defend and fight as long as your with the right instrucktor.
I think that there is a lot of students out there that can, but get tied down by the rules and lack of experence.
any one that holds a black belt should be proud of what they have accomplished!
and not comper them selves with outhers as evry one has difrent stregths and weakness.


[This message has been edited by xblis (edited 07-13-2004).]

Although there are those who are genuinly gifted at fighting, the primary reason that many MAs can't use their skills in real life situations is because they have not been taught how to. To this end, yes, anyone can be taught how to fight in real life if they are willing to learn. The key is realising the holes in your style and your own attitude.

I think a lot of the answer to this question lies in life experiences.

For example, I grew up in a nasty neighborhood and I was the cream filling in a hostile oreo. I fought on a regular basis and had to do some brutal and scary things to come out on top. I started MA later after my life had changed but I am able to call upon those experiences. I am a good fighter.

Some people, my children for example, have been doing MAs since an early age and have always had an easy life of Console games and cartoons. They are good students but not good fighters.

That would not be the end all of a good fighter but I think life experience makes a real difference.



[This message has been edited by Wanshu (edited 07-13-2004).]

I believe that one must have 'fighting spirit' to survive in a real fight. One's belt/rank means very little to an opponent who want's to rip your head off! You must have the skills AND the spirit to come out on top.

Sure technique can be taught and learned. However, leading a horse to water and making it drink are two seperate tasks. Anyone can learn the body mechanics of fighting. None of them are that dynamic as to be learned only by super athletes. However teaching somone to be mentally prepared is nearly impossible. Take a white belt for example that is afraid to get hit. One that is so afraid that he covers his head at any quick movement of the hand. How can you get this student to overcome it? You can show them the way but ultimately its up to the student.

That's the heart of this question Chen Zen. Some people train for twenty years and still cannot fight (literally) to save their own lives. Others train for a few months and are already able to put their techniques into practice. Fear can paralyze anyone who hasn't trained to deal with it; one might not know that until they've experienced it first hand. Maybe some people just don't have a strong sense of self preservation, or maybe they trust that there attacker will be kind.

I don't know what the answer is but certainly there must be a way to help that fearful white belt get over his fear of being hit. I used to be afraid of being hit, somehow I learned to, almost, enjoy it. I mean, it sucks to feel the pain of a poorly defended attack, but at least you learn what areas you need more work on, and that shiner I get as a result...well, nobody gave it to me, I earned it!

In a way, it's much like other athletic endevors. Some people are just better athletes from the start. But mindset is more important. No matter how good you might be, no matter how much balance, power, and speed you have, if you are not committed to properly using it, then the end results just won't be there.

On the other hand, someone who has determination, grit, the will, is probably going to be alright even if they are not the best from a physcial standpoint.

It's probably more complicated than that. But I've seen the very thing your talking about. I would also point out that some people have ten years of experince, while others have one year of experince ten times.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TwoGun:
I would also point out that some people have ten years of experince, while others have one year of experince ten times.[/QUOTE]


That is a great quote!

It sounds cruel but for the white belt example I think that the only way to do it is pound him. Not mercelessly but pound him. Hurt him a little. Either he will get fed up and finally push through the pain and fear and fight back or he will learn to avoid them. Either way he is better off.

for the white belt example!
you should start at minimal contact untill confadence is built and the student is ready to progress.

People who have no formal martial arts or self-defense training defend themselves successfully every day.

90% of it is will. 10% is tools and technique.

Training gives you better tools, the rest is what you have inside.

quote:
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Originally posted by TwoGun:
I would also point out that some people have ten years of experince, while others have one year of experince ten times.
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I love this one! So true.

I think that many "black belts" are fooled into believing that they are learning to fight, when in reality they are learning to spar, play tag, do one step, or pay the rent for the facility. Fact is, many people get caught up in getting the fast rank which in turn is meaningless, "a de-fanged wolf." it really gives the true MAist a bad rep.

Learning how to fight well can be taught/learned....and the martial arts are the BEST place to learn this!!!

BEING a fighter is a matter of the heart and can only be called forth by the individual... it can't be taught, cultivated = yes....but not taught.

Papa
John

I believe fighting can be taught but as you stated there are people who "are gifted". There are many great MA that I know who are not good fighters but they can show you any technique, kata, weapons, self defense etc. Does this mean they can't defend themself in a real fight, I don't know until that situation arrives. That is debated question that we can talk about forever. What is the use of training for years and not knowing how to fight Vs. being a great martial artist??????????????????????????????

We all have a "survival" instinct that will kick in, whether we survive or not is awhole other ball of worms.

In my opinion a person could train for many years and be very good at defending themselves in a real life situation. But just because they can do this does not mean that they "WILL" survive. It basically depends on the situation of the circumstances.

Whenever I get into a real fight outside the gym i get angry. Even if the other guy starts it i'll be the one chasing him away as my friends try to hold me back. I think this is the attitude a fighter needs. The attitude of "come get some" if the fight is definitely going to happen.

Absolutely. Everyone wants a peice of the champ. I say, serve it up.