Against Rape

What advice would you give to help protect against rape or other sexual assault?

The main one would have to be awareness and lifestyle.

Rape is likely to be an ambush type attack, hellishly difficult to defend from. So don't put yourself in harms way to begin with.

Awareness.
trust(or develop) your instincts, if something doesn't seem right-it probably isn't-so get the hell out of dodge or avoid the person.

I agree with the awareness/avoidance and "not being there" advice given so far.

I would also try to instill in women that just because they have had a few drinks in a bar with someone does not mean they are not a stranger. So called "date rape" is disturbingly common. The victim is lulled into a false sense of security by the predator and it shocks me how many women are happy to leave a bar/club with someone they have just met.

I would also advise everyone not to allow anyone they don't trust completely to go to the bar to purchase their drink and not to leave their drink unattended whilst they go off to the ladies room or the dance floor. Someone spiked my drink with an hallucogenic when I was young "for a laugh". They did not intend me any harm but I was ill for about two days. It was someone I had known for a couple of years, not a potential rapist, just an idiot with a strange sense of humour and little common sense.
Sharon

[QUOTE]Originally posted by still wadowoman:
I agree with the awareness/avoidance and "not being there" advice given so far.

I would also try to instill in women that just because they have had a few drinks in a bar with someone does not mean they are not a stranger. So called "date rape" is disturbingly common. The victim is lulled into a false sense of security by the predator and it shocks me how many women are happy to leave a bar/club with someone they have just met.

I would also advise everyone not to allow anyone they don't trust completely to go to the bar to purchase their drink and not to leave their drink unattended whilst they go off to the ladies room or the dance floor. Someone spiked my drink with an hallucogenic when I was young "for a laugh". They did not intend me any harm but I was ill for about two days. It was someone I had known for a couple of years, not a potential rapist, just an idiot with a strange sense of humour and little common sense.
Sharon[/QUOTE]

Yeah, sometimes women tend to be rather nieve when it comes to going off by themselves with unknown men.
Example:

A couple weeks ago a friend and i had to go to some retreat for church (as in we were forced to....anyway). We met this girl in the morning who hung around with us for like 3 hours during the day. At night (like 11pm) we were walking around outside and she starts walking with us. Before i knew it, we were in a secluded spot, no lights, NOBODY around.

What if my friend and I weren't normal people? What if we were rapists? That girl had essentially isolated herself in near complete darkness, away from all possible help, with 2 6'2 200 lbs guys.

She had quite a shocked look on her face when i told her not to be so trusting of men sometimes.

Yes, I had 2 female friends who couldn't understand why I thought it was a really bad idea to go out to a cow pasture to a party 2 guys they had just met at the icehouse invited them to.
Gee, go out into the country, out in the middle of a field, middle of night with 6 or more guys who are drunk/stoned who you don't know-what could ever be wrong with that?
I was amazed those 2 had made it to the age of 24.

nekogami13, I am familiar with those types of parties. I've frequented my share here in North Carolina during my days growing up. I've seen the same things. It's amazing how much trust people will put into others they barely know.

And therein lies the key. It's about not extending trust to people you barely know. It's also, ALWAYS about using some common sense. Self-preservation should NEVER have to come to some sort of martial arts techniques. It should never get that far. Prevention, awareness, etc., etc. is the best answer, although I realize it's not always that easy. Especially when it happens that those closest to you become your adversaries. It's tough. LIFE is tough. Making wise decisions helps somewhat....that and not allowing anyone to slip you a roofie.

-John

75% of rapes are by someone the victim knows.

"trust is a weakness to be exploited by the enemy”

I have seen so many rape victims that willingly walked home with a guy they had just met. ……FFS got 1 that happened this weekend..

DON’T GO HOME ALONE WITH A GUY YOU DON’T PROPERLY KNOW/TRUST.

“Prevention is better than cure!”

mark

The best defence I agree is avoidance, but secondly police statistics have shown that fighting back seldom ingreases the level of violence used by the attacker. One really good move is to bite somewhere around 60-70% of rapists attempt to mouth kiss their victim so whan they do bite down on the lips till your teeth meet, second fight back with all the strength you have. Kick bite scratch anything attacking the groin sometimes has been shown to work. Also use anything around you as a weapon look for wood, bricks rocks, or even a pen jab the pen as far into the attackers neck as you possibly can.

The other thing I would advise is that if a woman faces the worse case scenario and finds herself pinned to the floor with both his hands holding both of hers, there is littl point struggling at this stage. He is most likely much stronger, but he will have to move to take the atack further (ie to unzip his flies etc.) When he moves, that's when she should make her move, quickly and violently. Hurt him as much as possible, like wado says, even biting if that's all you can do (I know there are health risks, but you have to weigh up the pros and cons and as a last reort, biting can be effective); then get the hell out of there, making lots of noise and drawing as much attention to herself as possible.

I have mentioned this before, but also, if accosted by a man with a knife demanding that you go with him, whatever you do, don't! Your cances of surviving a stab wound in an area where someone might walk by may be slim, but not as slim as survival in his house or a secluded derelict house etc. Women captured in this way are usually killed after days, weeks or even months of rape and torture.

Horrible subject, makes you go cold doesn't it?

Any other advice anyone?
Sharon

[This message has been edited by still wadowoman (edited 04-29-2004).]

G.E.T. (Groin, eyes, throat.) Practice on a friend or family member.

A good point about not being moved by an attacker. This is what happened to a woman on CrimeWatch (BBC TV) this evening. One of the good things (if can be called "good" in such a horrific crime) that was highlighted was what this and another woman featured did. They reported the attack immeadiately to the police. This allowed them to get forensic evidence which ultimately lead to the arrest and prosecution of one attacker. I realise that this may sound defeatist to some, but vital advice if the worst were to occur.

Everything that has been said is all right. Don't put yourself in the situation to begin with. This may sound sexist, but it's not, it's reality. There is NO martial art that can protect women from a male attacker, simply from the strength ratio. If you do get into this kind of situation, and you have a chance to do anything, be as fucking viscious as possible. You have to take this scenario as fighting for your life. Mindset: Kill this fucker. Gouge his eyes, rip them out if you can. The groin is a much more painful target than most women realize. If you're unconfident, think of it this way: Whats going to happen if you don't get the fuck out of there, quick? Rape, torture, and quite often, ending in death. If you absolutely HAVE TO go somewhere as described by the others, dark, secluded, etc. It's never a bad idea to have a male friend/boyfriend who is able-bodied to defend the both of you.

One problem with girls who have yet to be in this kind of situation is pride. This is a deadly mistake. Some girls who are very naive and trusting, that I know, would go with an unknown guy just out of spite of the situation, to "prove" women can take care of themselves. Stay with friends you trust if you're at a party, and not just girls.

One thing to think about. Just about every rape probably take place in the guard. Brazilian ju jitsu has some very effective techniques from the guard that a weaker person can use to f*ck up a bigger person. During a rape, how many attackers do you think would expect an armbar? As they're in the act, take the arm and BOOM, dislocate their elbow. That woudl probably be a good time to escape, as the guy is going to be in unimaginable pain.

The problem is BJJ does not sufficiently teach you how to stop the attacker from getting to that position.

This is a generalisation but BJJ is about 80% ground and 20% standing (throws, flying armbars etc). So in that regard there are some far better arts for keeping you up on your feet (judo,wrestling, sambo). BJJ is the best art when you are on your back. However the key to most of the reversals and submission from the guard is space. If you have a big strong person on top of you, who is keeping very tight then it will be difficult to perform any submissions.

In my opinion it is better to train to not get into that position. However as you cant decide in advance whats going to happen if you are attacked training for the wrost has some merit.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 05-27-2004).]

Hi there,

Sharon's comment about not going with their attacker regardless of whether he has a knife ( or even a gun for that matter ) is correct.

90% of all women who are abducted are killed.

There was a chilling case in Alaska, where the bastard would have his victims come to him thinking he would be meeting them to discuss setting up a portfolio for modeling etc.

The meet would occur at a restaraunt, and he would always arrive after the victim. In truth the predator was there early & remained in the car to verify if his victim had arrived alone or was with somebody, and if so if that person was coming in or waiting for them.

If the victim was dropped off, arrived alone, or the person bringing her left...he would then enter the restaraunt seemingly late, apologize show his victim examples of his past work & then take her out to his car under the premise of driving her to his studio.

In reality, once she entered the car she was quickly subdued & handcuffed. The bastard then took his victims to a small airport, loaded them into his plane & flew them out to a remote location where he had a cabin in the wilderness. If this sounds familiar, it was profiled on the Discovery Channel. The victim would be held & raped for up to a week after which time he'd release & hunt his victims, burying them shortly thereafter.

By the time the police caught him he'd accounted for over 20 victims.

The key is awareness, trusting your instincts, letting others know where you're going etc.

One of the popular places for child abductions these days is theme parks. The reason for this being that its common for parents to take their kids to the park in the morning and either agree to meet for at the end of the day. Parents who's kids are snatched in this manner not only have no descriptions for the police, but have no time reference as to how long they've been missing since they don't know how long after they separated that they were taken.

Eric L. Bookin

Eric L. Bookin

I disagree with Chang Wufei's comment that "there is no martial art that can protect women from a male attacker." He says this is due to the strength difference.

I say that any male, no matter how big or "buffed up" or whatever, has weak points that can be exploited. No man of any size could come after me if I break his knees. He can't hit what he can't see. Broken elbows don't allow for much punching. Every guy I've ever worked with cringes at the thought of groin shots. I could go on...

And as for having an "able-bodied male" friend to escort us around, that is just ridiculous, and condescending to women. I will not let fear decide what I will do and when, and with whom. I'd do my best not to have to go somewhere dark and secluded, but if I had to, I'd be aware of my surroundings, and ready to use my training to make any attacker one very sorry man. Or woman for that matter.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunspots:
And as for having an "able-bodied male" friend to escort us around, that is just ridiculous, and condescending to women. I will not let fear decide what I will do and when, and with whom. I'd do my best not to have to go somewhere dark and secluded, but if I had to, I'd be aware of my surroundings, and ready to use my training to make any attacker one very sorry man. Or woman for that matter.[/QUOTE]

I just read Chang Wufei's comments. Whether a martial art can help women protect themselves against a stronger attacker is a matter of the individual's training, mindset and the situation. However the "escort" part isn't "condescending" but very wise and practical. No woman should let fear dictate what, where and whom they travel with. But common-sense should dictate realistic approaches to situations.

Not sure about the ability for a woman ( or Man) to think clearly, when under this sort of attack, the woman I have spoken too that have been raped say that they were paralysed with fear and just wanted the man to get it over with and go away.

Often they just pleaded not be hurt.

Date rape is often with a drunk woman who isn’t really sure what is happening, a friend that they kind of like and well, they get “guided” into sex.

The “violent” rapist will smash any resistance, “ so Mikelw, I would be careful about your “During a rape, how many attackers do you think would expect an armbar?” comment.

I knew a woman very well, she had been raped 3 times, she said “well they didn’t hurt me so it was ok, I just switched off, and they finished and went away almost apologetic” She is probably the toughest woman I have ever met, mental strength is more than physical strength !!!

What a horrible subject, I just think of my wife or kids coming home and saying…………….omg!! just to horrid to say.

mark

VJ,
I felt the remark was condescending because it implies that we are incapable of defending ourselves, and need someone else to be there to do the job for us. Of course common sense is the first line of defense FOR ANYONE. But some of us are perfectly capable of putting an attacker down when needed. I wouldn't ask a man to change my car tires, chop firewood, or anything else I can do for myself.

Let's change "escort" to "witness," shall we? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Sunspot, do you ever go all out nhb against males who outweigh you by 30+ lbs or more?
Do you try to use your skills after the same male comes up behind you and slams you down on the pavement?
Have you ever broken someones arm/knee, someone who was intent on kicking your ass-in other words resisting?

I believe there is nothing wrong with being confident in your skill-as long as it does not make you act stupidly,placing you in a position of having to learn for real if you can pull off the dojo moves.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunspots:
VJ,
But some of us are perfectly capable of putting an attacker down when needed.
Let's change "escort" to "witness," shall we? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] [/QUOTE]


Sunspot, with all due respect for yourself and all women, you are being naive. You are demonstrating a perfect example of what I referred to as too much pride or arrogance. Read nekogami13's comments.

A MALE ATTACKER IS NOT GOING TO TAKE A KUNG FU STANCE AND CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL OF MARTIAL ARTS. He is going to slam you into the pavement with all the force he can. These bastards get off that way, they like to watch women struggle. I've seen it. How the hell are you going to break a guy's knees or arms three times your size while he is busy slamming your face into the ground? It's a gruesome but very true reality.

As for my previous comment, I wasn't referring to a bodyguard or anything. If a guy has a woman friend over at ANY age, even teenagers, if she lives nearby, it's the gentleman thing to do to walk her home. It's not condescending, many men are raised with these traditions. You are being very unrealistic. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you walk around in spite of these dangers, you are a fool, and an arrogant one, and that could cost you your well being, even your life.


[This message has been edited by Chang Wufei (edited 05-27-2004).]

Sunspots, sorry to let the side down but I agree with the guys.

As a general rule, men are just physically stronger than women. There is nothing we can do about that.

Good training can even the odds, I truly believe that, but we still need to excercise common sense.

I never walk out alone after dark. If I drive anywhere I am cautious about where I park, I drive with the doors locked, carry a mobile (cell) phone and make sure someone knows where I am. Just common sense.

Sorry to disagree, but false confidence can be very dangerous.

I don't think Chang Wufei meant any offence, I think his advice is quite sensible, much as we might not like it.
Sharon


[This message has been edited by still wadowoman (edited 05-28-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunspots:
VJ,
I felt the remark was condescending because it implies that we are incapable of defending ourselves, and need someone else to be there to do the job for us. Of course common sense is the first line of defense FOR ANYONE. But some of us are perfectly capable of putting an attacker down when needed. I wouldn't ask a man to change my car tires, chop firewood, or anything else I can do for myself.

Let's change "escort" to "witness," shall we? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] [/QUOTE]

Sunspot - first off I think we'll leave it as "escort" because "witness" implies something different. Unless you prefer the term "backup".

You are free to feel that way but it wasn't condescending by the majority of the post that I've read just common sense.

As far as how capable you are of putting down an attacker I don't know or question because (a)the attacker (b)your skills and (c)the situation. I hope that you never experience such an attack irregardless of your "skills".

I know some of my female friends used to walk through the park at night through the alleyway with no lights whatsoever. Walking back one night with one of my female friends i suggested she take a different route back to her house as that alleyway was totally unsafe and we walked through a residential area, because atleast there were houses you could run to for help as well as good lighting!

I completely agree with all the "common sense" things about avoiding dark lonely places when possible, locking doors, carrying cellphone,etc. I do all those things. Everyone should, regardless of gender.

What I respectfully object to is the notion that I need another person with me, because of my chromosome count.

Yes, I have been under full attack by someone who threw me to the ground. My ex-husband used to knock me down on my back, sit on my chest, grab my ears, and slam my head into the floor when I didn't give him money.

Yes, I have sparred full on with people bigger than me, both male and female.

I respectfully agree to disagree with the crowd on this one.

Sunspots,

Sorry to continue when you have asked to agree to disagree (which I accept) and I am not just trying to have the last word for the sake of it (honest [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] )

I would just like to point out that with the ex-husband you refused to give in (kudos to you for that) but maybe he did not intend to kill you, he just wanted money.

Have you considered what would have happened if he was a mad serial killer whose only intention was the gratification of killing you?

Yes our training gives us an edge, but I would not like to bet my life that it is enough of an edge.

I do agree to disagree and respect your opinion. I am not saying I am definitely right and you are definitely wrong. I understand your indignation that we live in a society where some people think women should not go out alone after dark.

I also feel that indignation but happen to think that it is a sensible precaution.

Respectfully
Sharon

Sunspot,

Any male will have a hard time against someone bigger and stronger-no matter the level of training.
You say you spar, big deal if it is the tag your it kind.That prepares you for nothing.Do you spar nhb or animal day training type(for you Geoff fans)? If you do they may clue you in on your abilities.

Any person, regardless of gender, who ignores reality or makes no attempt to minimize the dangers to there safety is a fool-no matter how much training you have.
Anyone who says I will walk anywhere I want at any time I want and god help anyone who messes with me is an idiot-regardless of gender.(if that wasn't the intent of your call them witness statement,then so be it.)

I personaly view any time I have to use my martial art training as a failure. It means I screwed up very badly.

Sharon,

No harm, no foul, no hard feelings. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

It is good to have a spirited discussion where people can have differing opinions without it degenerating into a big mud-wrestle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikelw:
One thing to think about. Just about every rape probably take place in the guard. Brazilian ju jitsu has some very effective techniques from the guard that a weaker person can use to f*ck up a bigger person. During a rape, how many attackers do you think would expect an armbar? As they're in the act, take the arm and BOOM, dislocate their elbow. That woudl probably be a good time to escape, as the guy is going to be in unimaginable pain.

[/QUOTE]

I think MikeLW has a good point. Maybe if you bring the knees up to your chest while he mounts you you can create enough space, but I see how this can be difficult and wouldn't count too much on it.

On the other hand if someone is raping you, the last thing you want to do is wrap you legs around them and hold their head tightly against your chest.

These are ideas I brained stormed. Tell me what you think:

I think women should work on an escape plan. They should not rely on their strength and skill alone, but work with what they have to devise a weapon of some kind that will buy them time to escape. Of course, you have to think that these can be used against them also.

-Pen
-Pepper spray
-Stung gun
-Pin (Sharp pointed one)
-Maybe your ring or watch can be used to scratch.
[Anything to make him lose his appetite]

Plan B:
Also biting, eye gouging, scrapping. It would be a good idea to mark him so that he can be indentified later and leave traces of his DNA at the scene.

It can imagine it would be very hard to win using your barehands alone.


Warm regards, Lok

[This message has been edited by Lokkan-Do (edited 05-28-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunspots:
Sharon,

No harm, no foul, no hard feelings. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

It is good to have a spirited discussion where people can have differing opinions without it degenerating into a big mud-wrestle.[/QUOTE]

Agreed [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]......... le's hope no one starts a flame war about the martial art of mud wrestling now [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Sharon

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kiwi:
The problem is BJJ does not sufficiently teach you how to stop the attacker from getting to that position.

This is a generalisation but BJJ is about 80% ground and 20% standing (throws, flying armbars etc). So in that regard there are some far better arts for keeping you up on your feet (judo,wrestling, sambo). BJJ is the best art when you are on your back. However the key to most of the reversals and submission from the guard is space. If you have a big strong person on top of you, who is keeping very tight then it will be difficult to perform any submissions.

In my opinion it is better to train to not get into that position. However as you cant decide in advance whats going to happen if you are attacked training for the wrost has some merit.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 05-27-2004).][/QUOTE]


I doubt a RAPIST is going to know to keep in tight to the victim.

I have never seen a rape so this is just speculation. But It is only common sense that if you want to controll someone put as much of your wieght up on them as possible.

Sunspots,

This isn’t fair, Im so sorry to be insensitive, but if I may quote you:-

“My ex-husband used to knock me down on my back, sit on my chest, grab my ears, and slam my head into the floor when I didn't give him money.”

And could you stop him? Did your training work against the stronger attacker that had the “drop “ on you?

This subject is huge, and not very nice, Im sorry for your past experience,.
Thing is all MA that have “seen the elephant” can understand that level of violence, I just hope that it makes us much less likely to do such a horrible thing ourselves.

It is not about gender, rather size/strength/aggression and worse of all EGO.

I have interviewed men that have been gay raped, them being a victim had nothing to do with gender weakness, they were simply over powered.

AS for “and need someone else to be there to do the job for us.” When my team and I leave work, we NEVER leave on our own, FFS I would really be worried if I had to walk to my car after work on my own…… Just isn’t worth the risk.

Regards,

mark

something interesting that I've heard is that in a rape attempt, a woman should urinate and defecate; i'd say cutting yourself on an object to bleed on a perp would be equally effective. Humans generally have sensitive 'disgust' responses, so unless your attacker is a total psycho, I think it'd have a good chance of breaking the momentum of the attack. I don't know, I've got nothing to back this up, just a concept.

Hi there,

Sharon made an excellent comment in regard to never leaving your drink alone...and for that matter if you do...get a new one upon your return.

The reason that the Date Rape drug is popular with rapists that troll through bars, is that GHB leaves the victim extremely susceptible to suggestion. The victim is simply walked out the front door without a care or a struggle. They're in a stupor and a fog...the drug prevents them from remembering the events.

No mask is necessary as the victim doesn't remember anything...but when the fog of the drug wears off, she's left with a sensation that she has had intercourse.

If going out dancing, from the time of ordering the drink to receiving it, you should always be able to see your drink. Don't leave it unless your finished with it or replace it upon returning.

Pay attention to your instincts, don't go for walks or jogging in places that leave you completely isolated where no-one would no anything had happened to you and no safehaven is accessible.

This doesn't mean staying at home or confining workouts to the inside of a gym. Just that isolated moonlight strolls by yourself down poorly or unlighted streets, parks or beaches aren't a safe things to do. If given the choice between biking or running where you're out in the boonies or around places where homes and help is accessible you should pick the latter.

Eric

You guys were really hounding that lady for her "Witness" comments.

It looks to me like it is not a question of whether or not you will put yourself in a position of weakness. It seems that the issue is are women weaker than men.

In an all out street fight/rape scenario...YES! Sorry but yes. It does not mean that a woman can not fight off a male attacker. Some women are capable of fighting off a male attacker but not most women.

You seem to be aiming for a more PC version of the term "escort." Call it what you want but do not disillusion yourself. It is common in our modern society to PC everything. Just don't get too caught up in the syntax to ignore the symantics.

Women and men aside... How many fights have you been in? Was the person armed? If you fight in the street, you are running the risk (no matter the percentage) of your opponent using a mortal weapon on you. Do not be stupid.

I like the simple approach to everything. It is not fail-safe, but what is? It sounds nasty, and you all will likely think I am stupid or crazy, but I say crap yourself! The only problem is that they may kill you for it, but I think if that happens, then they may have planned to do so anyway. It is all a gamble, but it works as a last resort (probably only a last resort) but they can't stop ya from doing that. If they go for it after that, then just consent cause they are crazy!

This has thrown up some of the usual aspects of "Can a woman defend against a man?" stuff. Personally I think is entirely down to situation and individuals involved.

I don't recall anyone discussing the aspects of fighting though. Some say, as in Mark's case, that they are paralysed with fear and just want it over and done with, some would say that you should fight back with as much intensity as possible. What do you guys think?

Personally given that rape is a violent act and the myriad of reasons men tend to rape I would think it is almost impossible to describe a suitable defence.

Saying that does anyone know how and why men rape?

Mrrk,

No offense taken to your remark. The crap I took from my ex was long before I began training, and I had no idea how to deal with it. I began training about 8 years after the divorce, partly because I never wanted to feel that helpless ever again.

I'd say the best detterent for rape is to develop a nasty funk down there. Don't wash for several weeks at a time. At least, that's how I'd do it. Also good is to carry a gun.

double post

[This message has been edited by still wadowoman (edited 07-07-2004).]

Great plan neck!

Anyone else think it's a great idea to give up having sex altogether in order to prevent rape?

Good Grief!
Sharon

God damn it StillWadoWoman. I've tried everything I could think of to be offensive and rude and you just completely defused my obnoxious comment. I bow to you in humble apology. Your art has obviously taught you well. You are my queen!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Some members on here keep referring to women being raped. Lets not forget that males have been targeted by rapists as well. If you practice aikido or any other Ki related MA, you'll find physical stength has little impact on someone who can use their Ki effectively. Mind you this takes years, maybe lifetimes to achieve, but I'll continue working on it.

And no-one whether male or female can say they'd be able to stop someone from raping or attacking them. It's all relative to different situations.

Male rape is different. Men generally rape women out of agression toward women. Men rape men out of individual agression. It is not likely that a sexual predator will go out looking for a man to rape. However, this is exactly what they do to women. When a man rapes another man he is trying to establish dominance and "punk" the victim. When he rapes a woman he is usually not terribly interested in the victim herself. That's why rapists don't usually care what their victim looks like, or (contrary to some popular beliefs) what she is wearing.

I still say a good funk down there is best for both sexes. Men, ward off rape, stop cleaning your rectum!

neckbreaker

Whilst im sure you speak from personal experience regarding “the funk down there”

You are talking way out of your league with the “When a man rapes another man he is trying to establish dominance and "punk" the victim” comment.

Do you have experience in this subject? Have you had to deal with the victims of this crime? Have you interviewed the men that have committed the crime?

Mark

I do have some experience with this crime.

Neck,
I would agree that many rapists are unconcerned with the physical attributes of their victims, butI think you are a little off with the direction of aggression in rape cases. From my limited understanding of offenders, the aggression is used to obtain one or all of the following: Dominance, punishment, humilation. Sex has very little or nothing to do with it.

This brings me back to the question of self defence. What should a man/woman do if they are going to be raped or indeed sexually assaulted? Remember that any physical violence is usually used to subdue a victim into compliance, not necassarily as part of the above reasons. Should they respond with extreme violence, in which case will an attacker mearly up the anti, or should they subdue and retrieve as much forensic and other evidence as possible? Perhaps there is a balance. Should you at first subdue, then explode into action?

Interestng thread, even if does get a bit off base a bit.

As has been mentioned most rape victims know thier attackers and in most rape cases, alcohol or drugs are involved. I don't remember the exact percentage but is is very high. Avoiding a situation where any drugs are used and avoid those with alcohol where you are not among long time trusted friends. This will significanly reduce the chance of rape. Well maybe. It has also been speculated that only one in four women who are raped actucally report it. The national estimated average is that three out of five women will be raped in their lifetime. This is a very ugly and disconcerning stat.

Prevention is far, far more effective than having to fight off an attacker. While you can do a lot to avoid a rapist that is looking for a target of oppertunity, a determined stalker, looking to "get" a paticular woman is much more difficult to avoid.

If you are in that paticular sitation, you need to alert the police. They won't do anything about it, but they will have an idea of who to go looking for if somebody finds your dead body. Also, in the event that you successfully defeat a rapist and lethal force is involved, you will have the appearance of having done the correct thing by informing the police of the situation and that can save you in a court of law or in a civil court.

One of the key elements to avoid a stalker is to not ever allow yourself to be left alone. This is a royal pain but until the issue of a stalker is resolved, you best line of defense is to be in the company of another individual. Go and stay a a friends house or with a realitive for a while if you have to. Its a small price to pay.

There is a woman named Paxton Quigly and she is an attractive blond who was raped. She took martial arts classes with the intent that it would never happent to her again. Only it did. She then went out and purchased a gun and learned to use it. She has written a book called "Armed and Female" and it is worth wild readig for any woman. She also, or at least she used to, put on seminars for women, both those who have been raped and those who want to avoid it.

Rape is an ugly crime and it's all about power and contol. Only in 4.6% of the rapes reported in 2002 did the rapist use a firearm. I was unable to find what percentage of the time other weapons were used. But it seems that men are regularly successful overpowering women without the use of a firearm. As a crime about power, rapist tend to feel they don't NEED a weapon to take on a woman. That at least helps to give a determined woman a fighting chance.

But try to avoid the fight. Awareness and avoidence is key.

Usually when someone tries to rape a woman, they come from behind. Just remember to...

S.I.N.G.

Solarplexus/Stomach
Instep
Nose
Groin

When the guy comes up from behind, immediately elbow him in he gut or solarplexus, then stomp really hard on the instep of his foot, he'll prolly at this time release you so that you are able to backfist him in the nose, and either turn and kick him in the groin or mule kick him in the groin. No man can with stand a shot to the jewels.

S.I.N.G. LOL! Anyone ever see Miss Congeniality with Sandra Bullock? LOL!

Not to sound sexist, Im not, I dont believe that I would ever be beaten by a woman. The male in nearly every species is the hunter, and more physically dominant. Aggression and strength play a big part. Most men Ive seen can take a shot to the face from another man of equal or greater size and shrug it off, more often than not if a man hits a woman in the face with his fist it will nearly put her out. Males are almost always the violent gender, especially in humans, and its been inherent for centuries due to a mans need to hunt, kill, and destroy. While there are many an accomplished femal fighter, Id wager to say that her blows would be as strong as a man's of only half her size and weight. Then take in account fear and overall savage brutality and a woman really has little to no chance. Her best bet is awareness, security measures or devices such as peppersprays and cell phones, and to yell fire. Everyone runs when its a fire, almost no one runs when they hear HELP.

Harsh, But so very true.

I've heard (and I could be wrong and I'm not sure if its true cause luckily I've never been in such a situation) that if you try and tell the rapist something about yourself that it can cause them to back off.

What I'm meaning is that to the attacker the victim is just a faceless person, someone that he doesn't know so for him its not so much a personal attack (he can distance himself from it after the attack). But by telling him things about you (like your name, if you have kids etc) you are creating an image of someone with a life and feelings instead of just a body which can deter him since you are then no longer just some person he attacked. In a way it would play more on his conscience since he then knew the name and something about the victim. Of course this would only really apply to the ones who are attacking someone they've never met and still have some grasp of reality and self conscience(i.e. aren't complete psychos)

I don't know, I could be talking crap and to be honest I hope that I never find out if this is true. Also when pinned to the ground and scared out your wits I'm not particularly sure you would feel like introducing yourself but hey, its just something I heard. Personally I think I'd rather go down the road of kicking, biting, scratching and pulling at anything I could get my hands on in the hope I cause him enough pain to either let me go or regret it afterwards. I'd hate to think I'd go down without a fight.

Chen, good point:

"Her best bet is awareness, security measures or devices such as peppersprays..."

(Hmm... the quotes didn't work right for some reason.)

While pepper spray can be of great defensive value, I live in the midwest where the wind blows hard and often. So I'm always thining that if the wind is blowing hard and in your face, pepper spray is out because it will end up back in your face. Somebody out there makes a pepper foam that's a lot heavier and stickier than the sprays are but I can't remember the maker. In a place that has a lot of wind, I'd really reccomend the foam over the spay. If anyone is going to depend on it, they need to know how far it will spray both on calm days and in the wind. In some instances it might be worse than worthless.

Just one more reason to increase avoidence and awareness.

I saw a product in a catalogue called CHEAPERTHANDIRT.com. It was a stun gun that was an ink pen. While it may not be smart to shock someone holding on to you, it could definately be a preventative tool. If worse comes to worse and you have to use it while being held then I imagine most women would rather be KO'd while KOing the attacker then actually suffer the attack.

I get the catalog from them. They have some good prices on some odd stuff sometimes.

I suppose if someone had hold me and I could pull out a pen, even a cheap bic pen, I'd probably use it to preforate some soft body tissue. The neck and throat area come to mind first as it's a far larger target than an eye. I've got enough strength to drive pen into the abdomon as well.

Stun guns may or may not work. There is an unknown variable factor known amongst the shooting faternity called "the wimp factor". Some guys will fall the ground all but unconcious if they get so much as a scratch from a moving bullet while others will simply take round after round. Size matters, but mindset is what makes the difference.

Stun guns come in a lot of shapes sizes and powers. But like anything else, its the user's determination that will make or brake it.