Best Strikes For Real Fights

In my opinion even though my art is both kicking and punching based I would use punch over kick. I always go for the nose eyes and heart. And my kick are always under the belt. Now if I got a real jobber who thinks he is bruce lee but cant kick over his knee caps. then I may inch the kick up to the gut but a face kick is to risky. since there are so many style practicers her I want as many opinions as posible.

I agree the hands are usually the way to go (for me anyway). I'm short, about 5'7," and can do a lot of damage in close with my hands. If I do kick, it will definitely be below the belt unless there is a huge opening and my opponent is that bad.

the problem with kicks in most "street" confrontations, is that your average joe doesn't sit out at kick range, he'll usually close range so he can punch and grab and stuff. So kicks are usually out of the question except for low ones anyway, unless you can knock your opponent back. I would occasionally go for a crescent or reverse crescent to the head, as these ar quick, short range kicks. I would mainly stick with the knees, one of those to the head is a little safer. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

But i agree, mainly hand strikes and such like. Sorry, didn't include this the first time.

[This message has been edited by Kotetsu (edited 01-14-2004).]

The best strike for a real fight is still and shall remain the right (or left) cross to the jaw - performed very hard and very often. The competent amongst us might throw in the odd hook, elbow or short "thai" style roundkick to the thigh or outside of the knee. For the reality of stand up fighting, the above is a very comprehensive, dangerous and effective toolkit.

Regds
Mr V

Headshots. Whether it is cross, hook,straight or elbow.

May throw body shot,low kick to drop hands(them,not me).

Dependent on the range but headbutts are a good softener followed by as many hard and fast punches to the face as you can get in.
Also be aware of the surroundings a bar stool can be quite usefull.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DMF:
Dependent on the range but headbutts are a good softener followed by as many hard and fast punches to the face as you can get in.
Also be aware of the surroundings a bar stool can be quite usefull.[/QUOTE]

Definately agree about headbutts, also the odd crafty elbow can be pretty nasty.

I think with kicks the tendency when the adrenalin is going is to throw kicks as one off techniques which is weak and shows you to be a bit guttless.

I was always encouraged psychologically at competitions when oponents kicked a lot as it showed an unwillingness to close the range and throw decisive techniques.

I usually find in most confrontations my opponants usually rush in with right cross or a tackle if the head is up and chin not tucked I find a quick v open hand jab with my left to the throat very effective in shock and stun I usually move in with a instep stomp and knee to groin. If my opponant is very large I usually step to the attacking hand in a cornering move and try to exploit solar plexus or groin with my fists.

[This message has been edited by montecristo (edited 01-20-2004).]

I like to keep some sand or salt in my pocket all is fair in a fight. Its the quickest way to take down the biggest badass you can find. Then take a low blow to the royale ball sacks.

Sand and salt is a nice trick but if you don't want to ruin your best trousers, then just spit in someones eyes or face. The urge to wipe themselves is very strong and when they do, do what you feel appropriate.

I am not trying to step on anyones toes or hurt anyones feelings, ..... But it is very difficult to say what you would do in a "REAL" fight. The average fight lasts about 10-20 seconds, after that it is usually someone getting a mudhole stomped in thier backside.

No one knows exactly what they would do, you might have an idea but you truley wont know. Your body has to react without you consciously thinking move to move. When that adrenalin dump kicks in, unless you train for it The average person will lose simple motor skills. Im not saying that every one is this way, but more people are than are not!!!

I would sugest the K.I.S.S. method when training for survival in a "REAL" fight.
" Keep it savagly simple"

Gotta agree that the straight right is the punch that you want. That's the high percentage shot that's going to land and do something.

The knee shot to the face (from the clinch) works very nicely as well. Just leave the kicks at home. People close quickly and clinch up in real fights. You may only have one GOOD opportunity to hit cleanly before this happens. That's why the knee strike is my second choice.


-John

the best move totally depends on who u are fighting and how they fight

i prefer punches for most situatations too, but also elbows, knees, palm heel strikes, spear handed thrusts to the eyes and throat, and low round houses to the thigh and side of knee cap, maybe the ribs if they are completely open. Sometimes chops too.

Higher kicks can be usefull against inexperienced fighters to end the fight quickly.

Definitely the headbutt as an opening move, especially if you get the drop on your opponent and can tell by the verbal escalation that a fight is imminent (or of course if your personal "Insult Barrier", whatever that may be, has been crossed and you feel morally O.K. with throwing the first shot to make things physical. You know....if the guy is a straight-up a**hole and deserves it).
A great setup is to headbutt him in mid-sentence, preferrably if you're the one talking (if at all possible about how you're religous and don't fight, how sorry you are for whatever set him off, or how your child/parent/sibling/girlfriend just died and the last thing you need is a fight. You get the idea....the more you're able to fake emotion the better, not really too hard if your adrenaline is escalating along with the conversation).
Standing in a solid base, fire your head straight forward impacting with the point of your forehead, right below the line of your scalp(or if balding as I am, right where that spot used to be) right into his nose. Aim through the head and use your neck muscles as well as lunging your upper body forward as fast and powerfully as possible. Also....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!!!!! I have heard very few instructors over the years really devote time to the art of the headbutt, and those who did rarely incorporated it into any heavy bag work routines (it works great if you like to straddle the heavy bag on the ground and practice ground striking drills.....a must to round off your grappling training).

When training on the heavy bag, practice both from a relaxed (or relaxed looking anyway) stance to develop your surprise cheap-shot skills, and also work it in from various angles with punches, kicks, elbows, etc.
Another great head-butt attack is to grasp both lapels of your opponent's jacket (if he's wearing one....t-shirt or soft shirt of any kind is no good) or grasp behind the head with one or both hands and pull him into the shot. Of course if he's stupid enough to have ample hair and still engage in fighting (I LOVE those guys!!!) grab that.
Hair pulling and the double lapel grip are the best for multiple headbutts as well as the most powerful (if anyone doubts the power of this shot, tie a large GI or jacket with FIRM lapels around your heavy bag in such a way that you are able to grab and pull the bag into your headbutt, you'll feel how easily you could smash the nose, orbital socket, or even crush the sinus cavity [one of our students is a doctor who while watching the bag training commented on the likelyhood of this happening. I myself have only ever hit the nose or mouth] the face with the push/pull motion....just start easy if you have a weak neck. And expect a headache after the first couple of training sessions).
A word of caution however, aim well as I sliced my head open pretty well on a tooth once....go for that eye-watering, sight-blurring, CRUNCH sounding shnozz!

Also, as my punching skill is quite average, I like the elbow combinations and the knee strikes from the neck-clinch.

Now if I could only perfect my Death-Touch!

........someday.....
someday........

Oh I've got the delayed death blow perfected! I know that some of the guys I have hit will be dead in fifty or sixty years!

The human head is the hardest part of the body. If you want punch it, make sure you hit the nose or come across to the jaw. If you catch the jaw (with a lot of power) on the edge so that the neck snaps to one side, you have a fair chance of crimping the nerve in the vegas sheath enough so that they will be stunned or possibly even knocked out. It's the twist, not the impact that does the trick.

I prefer to use my palm or forearm when stricking hard targets. I'll also use a knee on occasion. Other wise I want to attack the soft body parts such as eyes, throat, solar plexus and groin. I prefer to work in close until I have an attacker "softened up" and then I may use a kick while he is somewhat dazed. It just depends.

All plans work perfectly until the first contact occurs. Instead of specific techniques, concentrat on concepts. You may not have a technique for every single situation, but concepts can be applied to anything.

[This message has been edited by TwoGun (edited 07-10-2004).]

I disagree with the headhunting mentality. Everyone expects it and you are not Mike Tyson.

Instead of thinking about which strike to make and then throwing those sport, boxing, strikes...think about what targets to strike. I like the neck, any area, and the groin. No matter how hard someone works out ie weights, you will never strengthen those areas.

Most of the discusion on this thread is based on sport fighting. If that is what you are doing then great...but in a street fight if you expect to dance around and go toe to toe, you have not learned anything about warfare. Which I think martial artists should study besides learning this hook and that combinations.

In so many post there is so much worry about this that and the other thing. ie the law, multiple attackers ect. Why is so much of the martial artists out there so dam fearful of so much crap.

Do you think your attacker has all this crap going thru his head. No he just wants to take you out...period. So why not think the same.

Besides you can learn all this fancy crap which takes up most of class in katas but guess what...you'll go caveman in a real fight anyway. so why bother.

Just hit him where it counts and hit him first as hard as you can. Ed

Just my opinion, but I Really like what's being said on this thread so far (And no....I'm not just referring to my 4 mile long "Mastering Headbutt Technique" post either [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Seriously though, what Ed said means a lot....the hit hard and hit first thing is a huge factor in my personally putting so much value in the headbutt (cheap surprise shot style especially!).

We all have certain techniques that have worked well for us I suppose and for me the headbutt is right up there at the top of the list.
Then again my game is %80 grappling so maybe I've had to compensate for having not developed the spinning crescent or whatever...who knows.

As far as sport fighting and street fighting go....(assuming by sport fighting you mean MMA/NHB), there is still far more crossover than there is difference. The best so-called "Street Fighters" (I like the term "Oppurtunist Fighters" myself) that I have ever met over the years are for the most part those who train for and/or ESPECIALLY compete in MMA/NHB....funny how that's so much the consensus among those of us who train with or around these guys.
Anyway.....i'm still new to this site and I'm really enjoying myself (Pretty Much the first Martial Arts site where I'm not just advertising for my school, as I recently transferred my ownership after 4 years), thank you all for welcoming my annoying, opinionated ass!

Oh yeah...for what it's worth I feel that developing your arsenal of technique through experience and training is MORE important than focusing on concept. Concept is important, but you're going to fight like you train for the most part. It takes far more blood, sweat, and tears (hopefully NOT urine [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]) to develop ablity and skill....conceptual grasp of a theory or idea is pretty much cerebral.

And the whole issue of throat strikes and/or eye gouges because those are soft targets......if you pull it off with the cheap-shot that's one thing, but if your opponent is going to expect a punch to the head (Headhunting), than he certainly will have an easier time defending a relatively small target strike like an eye-poke or throat strike...both of which are coming in at head level also.
And if we're worried about our opponent expecting any particular strikes, the groin strike is OBVIOUSLY common enough to be expected (not to mention the reality of the groin strike being far more difficult to pull off effectively than many people think.
Also, it's often NOT the 'Fight Stopper' some think it is. For example out of about 70 students at our school, only 20 or so wear cups (or mouthpieces for that matter...my choppers are a mess. And ear protection.....what's that? It looks like the veggie aisle out on the mat sometimes) and we're getting smashed there pretty good. It hurts like hell and often (but by no means always) the injured dude stops training for a bit...but in a real adrenaline-charged situation........very different. I've been struck there myself fighting and having worked in clubs over the years I've seen many kicks and knees to the 'nads land without stopping the fight (for the most part).

find a weaknes and use it to your advantage,
keep them on the back foot don't stop till the threat is over.
sweap+kick the legs and groin , attack balence, hit fast and hard
do what ever is posible to finnish it
make the first strike count as it may only take one strike to finnish it.
legs low, hands high

[This message has been edited by xblis (edited 07-13-2004).]

Don't get me wrong TJ, I never said don't practice techniques. Perhaps I didn't articualte it well. My point is that when a fight actually occurs, have one or two paticular techinques that have predetermined you will use may not work.

Look, if you teach some one to break away from being held by the wrist, you show them how and which dirction to pull away and twist. That's teaching them a technique. But if you tell them what they need to do is work agains the single thumb becaue it is far weaker than the the opposing four fingers, a student will understand the concept and will figure out on thier own which way to pull and twist. That is teaching a concept.

As I stated the head is a hard target and therefore not my favorite. Your point about obvious targets being well protected and hard to hit are valid, but you can usually find one open or can create an opening.

Once committed to violence you must hit hard, fast and again and again. I can only remember on altercation I was in where I hit someone more than two or three times and the fight was over. You don't really need the endurance of a boxer or great physcial strength, but you do need committment to your course of action once you determine that violent action is your only course.

I don't really think we're in disagreement here, I simply didn't do a good job of relaying my opinion.

Oh yeah, I pretty much do agree with what you're saying here. Actually knowing WHY something works can be helpful as it teaches you to think in the right direction...good point

Headhunting. I think most would agree that any strike is usually done best with the right set up. Thus, even though the attacker may expect a strike to the head, they should be distracted by something first. Through my studies of aggression and how this manifests itself, I have come to the belief that attacking the head is almost genetically programmed.

A quick note on law etc. Ed noted that many MAs are in fear of such things and so they should be IMO. That is until they understand the law better. Even our armed forces have "rules of engagement". Whereas I would agree that a consideration for the consequences is the last thing that will be going through an attacker's mind, it should be definately be going through yours! Some might say that there is no place for moralising in a fight. Wrong! Your actions will be judged on these very morals in court!! Would you like to lose your job, house, family, friends just because you reacted in the same way your attacker did? No. You would like to keep your job and be happy in your own home with your loved ones.

But I digress...

The choice of technique should always depend on the type of attacker you are facing and what they are throwing at you.

Very well stated Judderman. I agree, all good and effective techniques (i.e. headhunting) require setup.
And I also agree winning any confrontation either physical, mental, social or business requires a variety of techniques and an awareness of intent and method.
Or to quote my favorite cheezy 80's anime "there can be no true power without perception."

Punches are good. Kicks are good even to the face. Like it was said earlier, every shot has to be setup. Punches work great to setup kicks and kicks work great to setup punches. Its knowing how and when to do it thats key. I have and will continue to use kicks, and high kicks, in RL situations. However I trained a long time to be able to do so and anyone who wishes to had better do the same. Overall best technique for RL situations? Jab. No greater an opener was ever made. And if its a good jab you can still knock the guy out with it. Ali did it all the time.

I prefer open hands, knowing how to use your legs comes in handy,
punches over kicks, but I can kick

In close range combat, I prefer Elbow and knee strikes. Most people an average martial artist will fight are unskilled people who think thier the next Mike Tyson coz they think they can box, so they won't really see anything coming.

In a street fight, things are quite different from a dojo as im sure you know. Strikes are an important component of a fight but do not win them. Fights end in a number of ways:

1) One person is knocked out (very hard to INTENTIONALLY do)

2) One person runs away

3) Submissions (i.e. Chokes, locks, breaks etc)

Number 3 is the far more effective. If you try and punch someone in the head, they can simply do it back to you, but if you use a simple cross-lock like jujigatame, they cant do anything. Finish it off by pressing ure fists into the throat, and the fight is over. Its a lot simpler, and safer, than trying to pull a rocky or a bruce lee on the assailant.

Oh, did anyone mention that most fights end up as ground grapples within 3-4 seconds?

An open hand palm strike to the throat works wonders. Thumb and index finger spread apart and striking that area stops breathing for a few seconds and scares the hell out of your attacker.

For just a brawl where the guy has no weapons and it's just one on one - I like elbows, knees, uppercut (closed fist or palm-heel), hook to the jaw, straight jab to the nose/chin.

If the fight is getting REALLY serious (weapons, multiple opponents) then it's eye gouges, rakes, strikes to the throat, blasting the knee, and head and neck torquing.

it is the opposite 4 me, lol, i cant punch well, lol (well actually my punches r extremely fast) but it is like i have a phobia of punching people in the face , lol

eg: 2day i had a tournament, i won, lol, but in my fight when they got in close 2 punch me , (real close, nose 2 nose) i could still kick them. i remember one moment wen we were nose 2 nose i managed to hit him over six times in a row, in the ribs with a roundhouse kick.

so i find kicks are easier, (but that is just my opinion)


-cheers

I am a hands man.

[This message has been edited by Zatoichi (edited 09-19-2004).]

My all time bread and butter stike is a left hook off a jab combo. Flick the jab part way out then shuffle into a left hook. It works a lot like a sucker punch and beacuse I like the left hook so much,,and have practiced it ad- nauseum,,,it's also my hardest hitting punch. It's targeted to the jaw, nose or temple. Ive scored several street knockouts with it and gained the initiative in a number of other fights by throwing it. There's no predicting how a fight will shape up but I nearly always start the festivities with my all time fave. K-

Just my two cents worth: After giving it some thought, I finally came to the conclusion that what you naturally do in a non- fight scenario is the appropriate thing to do in a fight. E.g.: If you're coming in the door with your arms full of grocery bags, don't you naturally close the door with your foot? Unless a wind gust suddenly starts to slam the door, threatening to smash your toes, in which case you might switch perhaps to using a shoulder on the door.
Likewise, I'll use my hands in a fight unless it's impractical (I've been grabbed by the arms, or the opponent retreats out of arms length) and I can successfully kick or use a knee. It's an old concept in the MAs that when you use a hand strike you're standing on both feet, but when you strike with your legs, it's only the one, with the concommitant loss of stability.