gang confrontations?

What would you all do if someone started something with you and was in your face and pushing you? Most would probably smack him one i think but what if that guy could get 20 or so guys down there to help him. Would you still defend yourself against him when you know that if you mess with him you have to mess with his buddies? Or would you just let the guy do what ever he wanted to you. This happened to me about 2 weeks ago and a guy was in my face and pushing me and stuff and i had a knife in my pocket but i still didnt fight him because i knew that he had lots of dangerous friends.
What would you all do in a situation like this?
roundhouser

It becomes a question of whether you are willing to fight a fight knowing or feeling that you will lose. And whether you are willing to fight for things such as pride and honor which most people aren't willing to do. Personally I would but Im probably not right so dont listen to me.

depends what you mean by "do what he wants to you ".
I don't have enough common sense not to beat someone senseless when they do certain things to me.
Were the friends there? If not, take him out.Worry about the now, the future happens all on its own.

Nobody can really answer that one except you as we don't know the people involved.On first thoughts, I'll be dammed if some prick is going to push me about without getting hospitalised on the vague threat of comebacks - which are mostly hot air and not often carried out. However as I said it depends on the people involved. If he is the kind of person who's friends will hunt you down and shoot you if you hurt him them perhaps discretion is the better part of valour. You can't win them all and you never win any against 20 people. On the other hand if you put him into traction then his mates may well steer clear of you. Who knows....??!!

Regds
Mr V

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roundhouser:
What would you all do if someone started something with you and was in your face and pushing you? Most would probably smack him one i think but what if that guy could get 20 or so guys down there to help him. Would you still defend yourself against him when you know that if you mess with him you have to mess with his buddies? Or would you just let the guy do what ever he wanted to you. This happened to me about 2 weeks ago and a guy was in my face and pushing me and stuff and i had a knife in my pocket but i still didnt fight him because i knew that he had lots of dangerous friends.
What would you all do in a situation like this?
roundhouser[/QUOTE]
Sounds like what you're really asking is whether you acted like a coward or not. You were probably scared during the confrontation, and are wondering if your decision was based on this fear or valid reasons.
For starters, you had every right to be scared. It was a scary set of circumstances. Fear is a normal response to a possible attack. Indeed, a welcome one since it prepares your body for action.
You had a valid set of reasons to back off as well.
As to whether you're a coward, ask yourself if you'd have fought back if this guy had gone beyond just a shoving match and tried to hurt you. If the answer's yes, you're in good shape.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roundhouser:
What would you all do if someone started something with you and was in your face and pushing you? Most would probably smack him one i think but what if that guy could get 20 or so guys down there to help him. Would you still defend yourself against him when you know that if you mess with him you have to mess with his buddies? Or would you just let the guy do what ever he wanted to you. This happened to me about 2 weeks ago and a guy was in my face and pushing me and stuff and i had a knife in my pocket but i still didnt fight him because i knew that he had lots of dangerous friends.
What would you all do in a situation like this?
roundhouser[/QUOTE]Aah, Dont worry about it, You did the right thing.Besides I would've done the samething. PS Sometimes you have to think about what would happend afterwards rather than in the present. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by Isshin Dude (edited 08-06-2003).]

Acctualy for some strange reason i wasn't really scared at all untill the knife was introduced. The threats that they make are usually just bull crap but they usually only make them when people annoy them when people acctually punch them they get dudes onto you. to me gangs are a problem. mainly because you dont know who their friends are, how many they have or how freakin crazy they are. i mean if you have never seen them before and dont live in the area then for sure do wat eva you have to but if they know who u are then wat should you do?
any thoughts?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roundhouser:
Acctualy for some strange reason i wasn't really scared at all untill the knife was introduced. The threats that they make are usually just bull crap but they usually only make them when people annoy them when people acctually punch them they get dudes onto you. to me gangs are a problem. mainly because you dont know who their friends are, how many they have or how freakin crazy they are. i mean if you have never seen them before and dont live in the area then for sure do wat eva you have to but if they know who u are then wat should you do?
any thoughts?

[/QUOTE]
You did the right thing under the circumstances, you're safe and alive. I grew up in gang ghetto and if you're not in, stay away and don't cross them. They can retaliate against family and friends. They work in packs of mob mentality, meaning, irrational behavior. Best thing to do is to avoid them.

good point thanks

if it was me personally i would have probably beat him senseless and put him in the hospital

then again no people in gangs around here mess with me or my friends

Ok so gangs usually have more than 2 people when they fight. So does anyone know any good tricks that have worked against gangs to help you get away?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rand:


then again no people in gangs around here mess with me or my friends

[/QUOTE]

Wow! You should start your own classes!

Roundhouser, fighting two people determined to hurt you is very difficult, more that two is virtually impossible.
The best you can hope for is to escape relatively unharmed. Running really is the best defence against many, in my opinion.
If running is not possible I would hit the one that seems to be "the leader" as hard as possible, as many times as possible. Maybe taking one out will make the others think twice.
On the other hand, the others could then be baying for your blood because you hurt their mate.
If I knew I was in for a sever beating no matter what I did, I would be of the mind that I was going to hurt as many as possible on the way down.


You are obviously still worried about this guy and his "gang" so take sensible precautions such as not walking out alone at night etc.
Sharon

hahhahaa.....yeah sarcasm

what i mean is they dont come and start fights or anything like that

i know some of them and such

its not like im a huge steroid popping movie-fu fighter or anything

A story from my school years.

For many egotistical reasons, I found myself in a similar situation. Being the new kid, I didn't have the "back up" the other kid had. Realising that the result would be futile and/or enevitable, I lied through my back teeth to his "friends" to avoid the looming fight. I managed to call this other kid shortly after.

"Look" I said reassuringly "you don't want me to kick the crap outta you and I don't want your friends to kick the crap outta me, so why don't you back off?" After a little posturing, he agreed.

I used this sort of thing time and again. "I don't give a f**k how big and hard your mates are, I'm going to f**k YOU up first. Then I'll worry about your mates"

Hey, I had a big ego.

Kept me out of trouble though.

Unfortunetly I understand that gang culture demands that a person fight, sometimes (if not often) to death, in order to preserve their code of honour and status. No matter how many there are of each group, the punishment will not be as swift as the first strike(s).

These days, I try to keep my ego well out of the way.

Budo.

Gangs... one of my three worst case scenarios. Some of us just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or in my case live in the wrong place all the time. Single mom and baby sis had to be protected, that left me to step up. Gangs vary by age and area, the older groups tend to prefer neccessary violence, but the teens are the raving lunatics. I had many losing battles...ok..ok I was a human hackey sack but I fought back. I ended up actually doing the inevitable, joining the Bloomfield Crips. This is a too common dilemma in too many black neighborhoods, but I got out alive. To combat gangs is more of a psychological battle than the super trick technique you may expect. In short, get many friends, don't be caught alone, and humility will save you an ass tearing. Oh, and groups of attackers are more times than not unorganized and sloppy in battle, use this and make the closest enemy pay for it.

the exception

Most of the gangs around here are like that, raving lunatics, ofcourse they are teenagers aswell. Like you said exceptionist.

thanks. do you think that they would use weapons if they had any or what do u think people should do if there are weapons in the fight?

It depends on if you simply must protect yourself. If you must then fight as hard and brutaly as possible. Check yourself for weapons or check the enviroment around you if nothing is available then disarm one of the assailants and use their weapons against them. Also many people who use weapons rely on just the weapon and not the rest of their body, use this against them as well.

Weapons and gangs: I think only when necessary or if its a group vs group brawl.

Generally weapons are used for robbing you or to scare you, the mentality to link this to... well think about it like " If I don't like you I'm going to try to kick your ass, but if I really don't like you I'm going to kick your ass... with a broom handle.

If you give them reasons to really become aggressive then expect a visit to the ER.

the exception

If you have the opportunity to use one of the gang members as a sheild, then weapons really become almost a moot point. A few of you are saying to take out as many as possible as quickly as possible. While that is an option, I think it is an equally good idea to get a hold of the leader if possible, anyone will do though, and make them go through him to get to you. Stabbing, shooting, or beating becomes truly difficult if they aren't willing to attack one of their own, and if they do go through your human sheild, oh well, one less for you to deal with. Even then, you could possibly escape with your prisoner to a safer location, or buy enough time to attract attention. Just another option.

If weapons are about, you can almost gaurentee that they will be used. I have heard some stories about "gang" confrontations. All involved weapons of one describtion or another.

I believe the gang mentality is to dominate and area or opponent. If aggression is used (and it often is) then it must be decisive and brutal in order to be remembered. It is the basal human animal response.

As Chen said, if there is weaponry to hand, use it. (but only within the realms of the law [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] )

Budo.

The human shield idea is a good one but I would rely more on footwork instead of trying to control another persons body. This ties your hands up and drains too much energy. As for realms of the law on weapon use, f**k it. One on One is one thing but in a situation of multiple assailants and likely, multiple weapons my life is the primary concern and being in fear of your life is just cause for deadly force, at least in most places.

In the area I live in lethal force is acceptable against multiple attackers, armed or not. As for controlling one of the attackers, it is difficult unless they are willing to comply... for example: break their wrist and then drag them around by the broken bone. Rough to think about, especially since I've broken things and realize how much they hurt. But thats just an example and I wouldn't try it all the time anyway.

would any one consider very brutal force, like very very aggresive if there was no way out?

If I don't have to fight, I won't.

If I am forced to fight, I'll make sure I take a few of the ****er's with me on my way out of this life!

good point

hey everybody

I am 15 and an incident relevant to this topic happend to me and my mates last night we were walkin to a shop and this wee guy picks a fight with us.
We just walked on ignoring him yet he caught up with us and blocked our path then he punched me and two of my friends. what did we do? absolutly nothing. WE did not hit back or anything. its temptin to beat the shit out of these people and I am suffering a hurt pride yet if we had a done somethin then now we would be in shit cause he woulda got his gang e.t.c to hunt us down... its annoying but I would rather suffer a hurt pride for a few days than be looking over my shoulder for ages..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roundhouser:
would any one consider very brutal force, like very very aggresive if there was no way out?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, without a second thought. If the situation calls for it you must be prepared to do whatever is neccessary even if it means serious injury or death to your opponent.

Damn right!

I'm a nonviolent person when I can be.

However, when I am violent, I don't place limits on it, because I don't fight for stupid reasons.

If I have to fight, its to save my life or the life of another, in which case I wont hesitate to permanently maim, cripple, or kill an opponent.

If a gang of boys came up to me all at once and I knew out of common sense that the chances of me winning are slim the best thing to do at first i think is try and discuss it but no-one like the people who are willing to injure you hardly ever wants to discuss anything, so i'd just hit the closest one as hard as I can somewhere like the knee so they cannot walk, if the others hesitate to attack you do the same

Or act like a madman. Play head games with them! Scream like a babboon, wear your underwear on your head, grab them by the lapels and kiss them (bugs bunny style! LOL)

Anything to get them off gaurd.

Of course, it that didn't work, I would hit them a few hundred times, but thats just me.

retreat, and fight another day..
life is so precious.
so if you really value yours,and especially when someone's depending on you,like a girlfriend, wife or kids..
have a dog, and let it be your protector [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
but if you're the samurai-type of person who values honor rather making his family have better lives. good luck!

i do things for my family, for my mom, dad, brother and girlfriend, sacrifice isn't an option, it's just my last solution

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eL Duce:
retreat, and fight another day..
life is so precious.
so if you really value yours,and especially when someone's depending on you,like a girlfriend, wife or kids..
have a dog, and let it be your protector [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
but if you're the samurai-type of person who values honor rather making his family have better lives. good luck!

i do things for my family, for my mom, dad, brother and girlfriend, sacrifice isn't an option, it's just my last solution[/QUOTE]

I dont think anyone actually realises how true this is until it is too late, a few months ago i thought i was invincible and that nothing could stop me i was approached by a gang of 3, i didnt want peoeple to think i was a pussy so i thought i should fight,i thought i could take out 3 people (only ever taken 2 before at one time) one of them pulled out a knife and stabbed me 5 times...i was in hospital for 6 weeks, due to my own over confidence,
too many people watch bruce lee,practise a few times and think they can do anything. the message needs to get out that it is so easy to be killed, 1 kick to your head can kill you or leave you with brain damage for the rest of your life, do you really want this for the sole fact that you didnt want to walk away from confrontation? use your brain, it is the strongest defence against confrontation.

Sorry to high-jack your thread roundhouser but I've got a follow up question.

I'm moving to the U.S next year. I'm going to L.A to a place called Glendale community college for a year just to try something new.

Now when I hear all this stuff about gangs I've started to doubt my decision. I'm from Sweden so I can walk the streets at any hour and feel pretty confident. Things happens here but comperd to the U.S were ShangriLa when it comes to violence.

So could someone give me an insight on the extent of gang violence in Colleges are? Do people tend to pick alot of fights and if they do do they bring back a gun later?

Thanks.

WHAT A NIGHTMARE SITUATION IS THAT.!!I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A MARTIAL ARTS GUY WHO CAN BEAT A HAND GUN.IF EVER PUT IN THIS SITUATION PRAY YOU HAVE NOT BROUGHT YOUR LOVED ONES WITH YOU.HOPEFULLY YOU WILL HAVE A AWARENESS ABOUT YOU THAT THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN,IF SO DISTRACT THE GANG BANGERS LONG ENOUGH TO LET YOUR LOVES ONES GET AWAY.SECOND IS YOUR SURVIVAL.NOW YOU CAN BEND OVER AND ASK YOURSELF WHY YOU LET THIS HAPPEN.BE SMART,MAKE GOOD CHOICES WHICH WILL NOT PUT YOURSELF IN THIS SITUATION.

This is my first post, inspired by roundhouser. When i was 17 i was in a similar situation. I went to a boarding school in a small town. Some girl talked to me in a club and gave me her number, im outside waiting for a taxi and about 50 people cross the road. Her boyfriend wants a fight and he is a known local. Most of the 50 were just there to watch and cheer him on, about 10 were his friends, i learnt later they would only got involved if the boyfriend started to lose. He pushed me round a bit and tried to punch me, i ducked and he fell over. He was drunk, could i have taken him? absolutely, but i didnt he got up and connected with his second punch. i didnt throw a punch. The intimidation factor from the crowd coupled by the fact i was alone in unfamiliar town put a great deal of fear into me. As it was he didn’t continue after the second punch and just verbally abused me. I used to see him round town for the last year of school, he always had about 10 friends from the local club, I was always climbing over walls in pubs to get away. It drove me insane I could never meet him one on one. As it was I never did, but when I left my boarding school I had the good fortune to live in Africa where I meet a ex southafrican Olympic boxing coach. I trained for 4 years with him and I swore I would never let anyone one would ever punch me with out retaliating. I got to a reasonable amature level and fought for my university at cruise weight. When I was 24 I was walking down the street with my girlfriend and out of no where I get punched in the face. It was night and the street was busy. My reflexes were instant, got into stance covered up and looked for a target, only there were about 15 of them. A group of 15 lads 18+ years old. I ducked a couple then moved away, again I didn’t throw a punch. I’m glad I had that second experience, I always used to think I should have hit the guy when I was 17, that maybe I didn’t know how to deal with my adrenalin but the truth is against those odds the best plan is to do nothing or run, but im not quick. In both cases they stopped cause there wasn’t any sport for them. As a footnote I am considering taking up a BJJ just for fun and fitness thought it might go well with boxing for self-defense.

I would never simply defend or evade. Im highly sensitive about my personal space and highly aggressive when it gets invaded.

for me i am ok with pushing ya whatever but when i get punched/hit i go CRAZY! now if you can fight well and if you had friends with you and they could fight well then i prob would'nt have done nothing unless hit. they prob would have used weapons, in high school i've heard of somepeople useing pensils and pens for weapons now if they stabbed me with it, they better hope they killed me cause i would beat them to a bloody pulp. i am a short stocky guy 5'4" 170 not much fat on me either (a wrestler) so i got brute force and you use brute force punching it will hurt BAD! so depending on you body specs. and fighting ability i prob would have sone the same thing. something like this has happend to me i was at my locker adn i got in a fight with this guy before and he was in a gang adn he came to my locker with 2 guys and was talking alot of **** and rubbing his hands all "cool" stupid wanna be rappers, well any ways i just left because i didn't want to hear it, they were like come back you p*ssy. now if one of them hit me then i would have opened a 55 Gallon drum of WOOP *SS! but they didn't so......... You did the right thing unless you could have kicked all their butts.

[This message has been edited by Short_Stack (edited 12-22-2004).]

I speak from experience when I say that the biggest thing when fighting a coward prick (A.K.A. Gang member) is don't let the prick get a hand in his pockets. When they realize they are at a disadvantage, of course, they go for their ghetto $11.95 pocket knife they got from 7-11.

Maybe we should form a martial artist gang to get rid of all these wannabe punks. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

I have been in a few such atercations over the years. I did mug people myself a few times even, but always alone I was never in a gang or bike club, though I did ride a bike and hung with many bikers as freinds, etc. So I do have some idea of how they opperate, enough that I would never mess with a Hell`s Angel or any other gang member unless it was the last optoin to try to save my or someone I really cared abouts life.

I did consider doing so at one time however.
when I was 18 I had a son, his mother left me when he was one year old and moved in with a local biker, an Angel. I grew up around these guys and knew what they where capable of so I never messed with him about it, we had abit of a mutual respect for each other actually. I only wanted my son well taken care of, and wanted to see him regularly, and he understood that.

Then he killed my son, not on purpose I suppose, he shook him to death in a fit of rage. I guess the crying got to him? I don`t know.

Any way this guy was way scary, I knew for a fact that he did hits across the border in the U.S.. He was also a very high level MA with weapons every where in his home, the fact that he was also the smallest Angel I ever met also says some thing about him I think.
I did not care what happened to me after I killed him at all, not one bit. At that time my life was a mess, I had lost my wife and son within 1 year, when life is not worth living, there is NOTHING to loose.
I got a 303. rifle from a pawn shop and carefully planned how to shoot him when he left his front door for work in the morning.

I never had the chance to do it, my girl friend or her mom found the rifle hidden in the closest and called the military police, they came and took the rifle away, the military also forced me to take "lifeskills" course. I Never found out wich of them it was that made the call, but I have no doubt that it saved my life. It gave me just enough time to think about what I still had left, and I did not go out and get another gun.

The Angel in question hung himself a few months later, and NO I did not have anything to do with it.

I went through hell for a few years, over all of this, and fell into drugs an all kinda sh##.

Now I am 41, clean exept for the odd drink, and have a wonderfull family with 2 son`s the first of whom I adopted after I married his mom. In short a father lost his son, a son gained a dad. Life went on things got better. My wife and I do foster care for troubled teens, and I have the job I dreamed of as a child. I can honestly say that I am now the happiest person I know.

One less phone call could have changed it all, I could still be in prison, or the Angels might have done even worse.


Its just NEVER worth it.