Finger breaking.

Posted by: Jamoni

Finger breaking. - 07/16/03 05:39 PM

Is finger breaking an effective technique in grappling? Under what circumstances? And does anyone have any real life experience to relate?
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/16/03 06:11 PM

I had my thumb broke in a wrestling match once, if that counts. The guy did it deliberately, I believe, (He says otherwise) and the instant it happened my hand broke free of his grasp and broke his nose, so I wouldnt say its all that effective. I think in a grappling situation it might be more suitable to go for a wrist break if you already have the opponents arm in your grasp. Or maybe you could be really nasty and break the finger then jam it hard with a palm trying to force a compound fracture.But only if you want to be cruel about it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Ed Glasheen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/16/03 11:03 PM

I was in the jungle once when I came across a very deadly snake. My imediate reaction was to chop and chop the snake with my machette. I mean I was really intent on killing the snake quick!
What does this have to do with your question?
Well the same thing will happen. While you are breaking my finger, I will be intent on smashing your face. So it is a trade off. I don't think spending the time to break someones fingers is worthwhile enough to use. Ed
Posted by: JKogas

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 04:13 AM

I suppose that finger breaking would be an acceptable tactic in street grappling. We attempt to train things like this during grappling sessions and it occurs to us that attacking such a target is not the easiest thing in the world to do! Small joint manipulation is just hard to accomplish in the heat of battle. That's why it isn't practiced much in alive settings.

-John
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 08:42 AM

I don't consider it a "finishing" technique, but I tend to think of it more of an opportunistic situation.

If I happen to find my opponents finger in my hand, should I try and break it?
If I had a choice, would I grapple with a guy with a broken finger, or one without a broken finger.

Hey, I'll give the finger a tweak, it's not cost me anything.

JohnL
Posted by: ChangLab

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 08:44 AM

Honestly, if we are discussing street fighting, in that you (for whatever reason)are
FORCED to fight, then it's all about survival, i mean not a schoolyard fight, or barroom brawl where someone is likely to step in and "stop" the encounter.
If it was just me and an opponent(with serious intentions on causing me physical harm or killing me)
then, ALL's fair game
every time he strikes, i would try to destroy
the limb Every strike would be to injure/maime(maime?mame?whatever..)
if he gets gay on me I'll remove his eyes then bite them(taste like chicken!)
if he gets me to ground then I'll...Huff and puff and blow his house down
the point I'm trying to make here is
if you are gonna fight, then by all means fight!
these discussions are fun and occasionally informative but,when it's on then it's ON
I have never felt that threatened myself
(a few bar encounters and dealing with idiots at work)but never have I HAD to "Kill or be killed"
so, till it really happenes Who really knows?
I'd like to think I'd be able to pull the metaphoric trigger but as yet I'm not tested in that arena
so I'll keep on enjoying these posts.
ChangLab
Posted by: Ender

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 09:29 AM

If the oppurtunity arises...Yes of course I'll use it.

But it isn't one of the main techniques in my fighting arsenal.
Posted by: Judokid

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 11:45 AM

I know a kid who's pinky was broken by another kid in a confrontation. As far as i know, the kid who broke the pinky wasn't even a martial artist, but he still got the kid to cry. Need I say anymore? In the RIGHT situation, with angle and opportunity taken into consideation, itcan work. (For example, see the article by W. Hock Hockhein in the September issue of Black Belt Magazine--he escaped from a choke by braking a man's pinky!!!)
Posted by: Ed Glasheen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 12:49 PM

Welcome to grown up land. Breaking some old ladies pinky might work but not on most adults.Ed
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 01:09 PM

Ive only seen a few of your posts but your the man Ed. Its like Ed said these are one of those things thats really going to fire your opponent up and if your not fully prepared for that its going to cost you. So you broke his index, he just broke every major bone in your face and is now working on your ribs and internal organs while you are laying on the ground beaten and broken.
Posted by: Jamoni

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 08:42 PM

For those of you with actual input, thanks. Jkogas, JohnL, I agree 100%. Ed, I'm still ignoring you. Chen Zen, go sit with Ed.
The actual sort of use I had in mind was in the case of someone with a strong grip and wrists, holding your arm (possibly neck), so that a wrist escape/wrist lock would not work. I think snapping a pinky just MIGHT loosen that grip, giving your lock some oompf. I agree that small joint manipulation is iffy, and should be treated as a target of opportunity or desperation, not a finisher. But I also believe that, if you know the response is going to be a momentary pull back/flinch followed by a frenzied onslaught, well, you can ride that out while angling for control. Still, the proof is in the pudding, so that's why I asked for real examples.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/17/03 11:48 PM

Hey! I gave a real example! Anyways I didnt know what situation you had in mind because I'm not Mentok The Mind Taker. (OOOOHWEEOOOH) [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] In a situation where something need done but the wrist wasnt an option Hell Yes break two or three at once then slam em hard in the throat. And groin too. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: KarateJoe

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/18/03 06:28 AM

I've broken someones fingers in a real encounter & it worked a treat. I had been attacked by 4 guys, I was down on the ground & was trying to get up to escape. The only thing I could see was one guys hand, which & grabbed & started to break his fingers. I got to number two, then he decided it was time to give in. As he moved away a space opened up & I was able to get up & beat a hasty re-treat, so from personal experience, finger breaking works for me.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/18/03 12:15 PM

It depends mostly on the pain tolerance of the opponent. I had broken many bones when my finger got broke so it was no big deal. It was more knowing that it was broke than the pain itself.
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/18/03 08:23 PM

In short they can work.

My friend is a bouncer at a bar that is in short, going down the shitter fast. Violence is becoming more prevalent.

He carried out rather large member of a outlaw biker group using the in close finger/wrist restraint. He told dude not to move. Guy tried to hit him. Upped the pressure. Dude tried again. With the fingers held in their pairs, one pair was snapped. Tears and complete compliance.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/19/03 02:37 AM

Break finger if they grab neck?
If they grab like most untrained people(fingers on one side,thumb on other near carotids)go for it.If they grab so thumb and fingers meet behind your your trachea,bad idea to make them flinch(the wet popping sound you hear is your windpipe falling to the floor).
As for other scenarios,hey if its there-break it!
One thing to consider,not everyone reacts to pain the same way.Some will give up and become compliant,others go berserk.
Who hasn't broken/jammed a toe,finger,etc during sparring and not even known it till after?(usually about thirty minutes after class).
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Finger breaking. - 07/19/03 12:57 PM

Very true. Ive broken probably every finger and toe I have at one point or another. I think if I was to do it I would grab two of the fingers and instead of pushing straight back I pull like i was pulling them apart, this way their is more chance of the bone breaking the skin which would increase the pain level greatly.
Posted by: tapout12

Re: Finger breaking. - 09/12/03 10:12 PM

Finger breaking can be a effective distraction technique however like you saw earlier in the forum while your breaking fingers someone might be breaking your face. So on the way through that first digit you better but plan B in effect because that which doesnt kill them sometimes tends to motivate them.........
Posted by: MAGon

Re: Finger breaking. - 09/13/03 08:19 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
I don't consider it a "finishing" technique, but I tend to think of it more of an opportunistic situation.

If I happen to find my opponents finger in my hand, should I try and break it?
If I had a choice, would I grapple with a guy with a broken finger, or one without a broken finger.

Hey, I'll give the finger a tweak, it's not cost me anything.

JohnL
[/QUOTE]

In a nutshell. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]