Need advice: Self defense for women.
Posted by: ehwth
Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 11:33 AM
Hi Everyone, I'm new to the site and have been trying to google up a good place to learn self-defense techniques the last weeks. But haven't found anything. Wondered if anyone could help advise? I'm not quite 5'2 and about 105 lbs more or less.
Since having been sexually attacked more than enough times years ago from a long-winded background and not knowing how I got myself into an abusive relationship when I was 16. I have been wanting to learn to train myself appropriately in being able to defend myself, as of most situations, there's no one there to help.
An ex who is utterly passionate and have been training in BJJ and MMA had opened my eyes up a bit then. Per se, I used to believe that as long as I had enough heart and perserverence, I can overcome anyone trying to attack me. I don't think of myself as a helpless petite woman. But needless to say that with a few "rounds" at home with him, he proved how easily I can be submitted.
He has also disclaimed a lot of the Martial Arts out there and said I'd be better off just running or carrying a spray. He also said that taking certain MA classes can help a little, but to train with the same people every day versus being in a real life situation can make a big difference. But this being the most I can do, I can't accept.
I do know of common knowledge that being trained incorrectly is worse than never having been trained at all. And I fear trying to google classes and schools reading reviews of those who have little knowledge in art..
It's a long shot. But would anyone have any advises as to where I can start/begin? I live in NYC. Is there any place/instructor that is reputable? Or classes that actually would really test the adrenaline? I don't mind going into the office the next day with bruises if something was learned. =)
Thanks,
A
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 11:48 AM
Hi A,
Great question and one I have brought up myself. Your ex is right in many ways, there is only so much a 105 pound woman can do in a straight up fight against and bigger attacker.
For you most martial arts would be a hobby, that would not do much for you in real world application, but there is hope.
BJJ offers you some options because it's based more on leverage then on striking power, as a small woman if you can keep you head I'd imagine an attacker would make a mistake you could exploit and possibly give you a chance to escape.
I would stay away from the "reality based" systems that teach you to strike hard and furious but don't spend much time on techique, they have some value but personally (just my opinion) I don't think they offer a realistic skill that would help you in an attack.
Juat a quick point of view, but I would love to see this thread get some legs.
How would you train a 105 pound woman to protect herself (not fight in a ring) but protect herself against a larger person who would like to do her harm?
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 12:03 PM
Hi and welcome to the forums.
Quote:
An ex who is utterly passionate and have been training in BJJ and MMA had opened my eyes up a bit then. Per se, I used to believe that as long as I had enough heart and perserverence, I can overcome anyone trying to attack me. I don't think of myself as a helpless petite woman. But needless to say that with a few "rounds" at home with him, he proved how easily I can be submitted.
Your eyes have been opened!! Many people have a perception of what they would or could do. Then when they try it's another matter altogether,lol.
You don't know how many times I've heard, "I'll just kick em' in the balls," or "I'll just hit them in the throat or eyes." Well, I don't think so. Not in a real situation. Relying on dirty tactics to get you out of things is dangerous at best.
Quote:
He has also disclaimed a lot of the Martial Arts out there and said I'd be better off just running or carrying a spray. He also said that taking certain MA classes can help a little, but to train with the same people every day versus being in a real life situation can make a big difference. But this being the most I can do, I can't accept.
Bad news, your ex is right on the money!
Spray is good. it will allow you time to get out of the situation. Tasers aren't bad either! Running is a good idea too.
There are things you can do that require alot of time and commitment.
Going to a self defense seminar is empowering,but it should make people realize how much they don't know and how much they need to know. Instead they make people think they are invincible because they now know a few secret techniques. WRONG.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
Here is a good place to start. It's not designed specifically for women, but it would help you slot I think.
I believe a grappling art best suits women for self defense because in most cases your attacker wants to get you to the ground and control you from there. There are many techniques you could learn to get out of that situation and possibly injure your attacker in the process.
Hopefully some more people will chime and give you more advice, my self defense expertise is extremely limited.
Posted by: harlan
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 12:22 PM
Disclaimer: This is personal opinion of an old lady, with limited experience and knowledge.
You are 105 lb female in an urban, potentially high crime environment.
1. Stay fit. Can't run if you are overweight.
2. Avoidance, awareness. Don't go jogging in Central Park at night is an example.
3. Implement security in your environement. Locks, alarms, etc.
4. Get a permit, buy a gun, and learn how to shoot.
I don't believe that most martial arts are a viable, short-term solution to self-defense for women and/or children.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 12:39 PM
Good advice harlan!!
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:01 PM
I believe self defense for women (just like a man) is eye opening and the reality may not be what you want to hear. I do think training will help you avoid and take on what happens on the street or in a domestic conflict.
The key issue wheather man or woman is survival at all cost and knowing when to escape and how to make this happen.
In NYC there a number of good schools that stress self defense. Like any such school you can get as deep as you want, I personaly suggest training that involves mental awarness, enviormental awarness and use of tools/weapons that help you survive in desperate situations, be prepared.
Mental awareness is the idea that you are aware of whats going on around you. Being aware that it could happen, listen to that sense that this sounds and feels werid.
And that you key in on key words that alert you to a person's intentions. Such as "Why don't we go over to house after work so I can show you my paintings". Most rapes or attacks are by people we think we know or people that have watched your movement. True some attacks happen by chance.
Enviornmental awareness - Don't walk alone at night when leaving work or park in dark rarely travel areas. Notice if you are being followed. Notice if theres someone hiding in the back seat of your car. Carry your cell phone in hand for intended use and improvised use. Turn corners wide so you can see around it, giving you more time to react.
Just to name a few.
Learn a skill set that will prepare you for events that will happen in such an conflict. Avoidancce to contact skills. I suggest any school of training that concentrate on center line striking,standing grappling & ground skills. Unlike some I believe in striking the groin, eyes,throat,strenum, heart, chin and temple. But I add do this after you throw coke, pepper sprayed r spit in there face and use a brush or ink pen or cell phone to enhance the effect of these strikes. Learn what your natural weapons are knees, elbows, hammer, palm, koken strikes among others.
Use the things you normally carry as a weapon be it a metal cornered purse or high heel shoes. I agree knowing throwing skills can help in countering a rushing bigger opponent also submission skills always think striking to escape not tussling for a submission unless you have to. Even at this alway improvise the use of a weapon even if its the of scraps of your purse as a gurrote/strangling devise.
Of course this can extend to learning to use distance deadly force training. Learning how use a handgun doesn't hurt and getting CCL this is not the same thing. CCL training is bare minimum get some real training.
Grappling with your male BJJ friend helps but I think if you trained BJJ (or any art) it should be based on self defense skills rather then competition. I'm not saying that competition skills won't teach you how to use your skills but it won't teach you how to fight dirty/cheat/Survive.
Survival skills are key not tag sparring or competitive skills. In one incident a woman was attacked as the Rapeist started to rip her panties off, she informed him that she tested positive for HIV. He jumped up and ran away. Hell thats better then leaving the guy on the Island by himself after he challenged you.
Posted by: ehwth
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:13 PM
Hi. Sincerely want to thank everyone for their helpful input.
Having grown up in a decently high crime neighborhood, I've always been pretty aware of my surroundings. Except there has also been situations where there's no avoidance and no ability to run. Ran into this mostly during commutes home after a late night class when the trains are empty as the streets.
Don't know if it's true but it does feel it.. and not quite sure how to explain it. Because I'm small and petite, it tends to attract a lot of men who typically wouldn't try anything otherwise. I remember a time when standing on the platform waiting for the train and a guy would not leave me alone. Kept coming up to me, standing too close, and would not stop trying to talk. Not that this one tried anything physical, but because there's also no intimidation.. it admittedly has one feeling threatened and helpless sometimes. A feeling I really hate to feel.
Especially if there's really no one around. And in NY, people tend to turn the left eye. I end up not knowing if I can yell at the guy. If that would only make the situation worse. Or if I try the polite technique, they just increasingly become more aggressive.
From any kind of training, I don't expect to be empowered. Just hoping to know my body better and its adrenaline, discipline the mind from not being blind from anger, and increase my chances of being able to recognize when someone is about to make a move..
Definitely going to consider BJJ, for the floor moves. But there has to be something else?
And Harlan, so funny. I actually just signed up for shooting lessons earlier today. =) Not a fan of weapons but I think it'll be good to know.
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:14 PM
Good Post Neko.
My thoughts are that you should carry a knife, learn how to shank someone and take BJJ or Judo or some type of art thats main focus is on leverage. Striking will help to some degree, but I don't that should be your first line of defense.
Avoide, run, spray, tase, shoot, stab, strike, grapple, is maybe the order that you should consider. The better you are on the first few, the less you will need the others.
Posted by: ehwth
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:39 PM
I'll continue to do more research on sprays and tasers. Haven't really been able to find many self-defense driven courses around here though but will definitely try to sign up for those one-day seminars. Took one BJJ class before, but the guy who was partnered with me seemed uncomfortable. =)
Many thanks again. It's been difficult trying to blindly figure out where to begin. Especially when you don't really know anyone interested. But looking forward.
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:58 PM
Kimo2007 We are in agreement with your analogy in that order except I put a high priority on things that works. If striking works for you use it, if grappling works for you use that. I don't discount any method that works in a situation.
Ehwith wrote - I remember a time when standing on the platform waiting for the train and a guy would not leave me alone. Kept coming up to me, standing too close, and would not stop trying to talk. Not that this one tried anything physical, but because there's also no intimidation.. it admittedly has one feeling threatened and helpless sometimes. A feeling I really hate to feel.
Eh- Little one don't play their game, keep an eye on them and get on your cell phone. He can't flirt with you or talk to you if you are talking to someone else on the phone. And it will let you know if he is a problem. If he continues to wait or talk while on the phone, his intention may not be friendly from a stalker to a real threat. In your conversation on the phone, "Mention something about your (husband/family memeber) being an Cop and he is coming to meet you at the address your'e standing for whatever reason." Of course all alone sizing the guy up humm should I use the pepper spray and yawara/brass knuckles, taser or 45acp.
Being little and pettie attracts but it can push away if you act like the Predator rather then prey. How you may ask, pull out your 45acp and check to see if it got one in the chamber. And see how much space he gives, ya.
Just playing I know handguns are legal in NYC. Hell I'd think in the concrete jungle you'd need one. Sorry for stero-typing, also forgive the punn.
Maybe you should ask a teacher for a self defense Instructor.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 01:58 PM
I don't think a knife is a good idea. At least last I heard that it is illegal to carry a knife and it could easly be used against her. Unless she starts training in knife techniques i advise against that.
On the contrary I think RBSD stuff is exactly what she needs. It can address those adrenaline situations to an extent, but not fully. At least you will have experienced it and not totally freeze when attacked.
Also, as a petite women BJJ i don’t' think is wise. Nothing against BJJ but for a petite female to grapple with a bigger opponent the technique better be spot on and that will most likely take time to learn and perfect.
And what if there is more than one attacker? You think a petite female should be stuck on the ground with one of the guys while the buddies surround her?
I believe BigRob is in NY and he does some great stuff with RBSD and mentally trying to defeat an attack. He taught some good stuff at a seminar we had in Jersey. His ID is just that and you might want to PM him or he might just read this and reply.
A spray might be useful but they aren't 100% and if I remember they emit a stream which means you have to be somewhat accurate and/or the attacker is relatively close. And then if you nail them run tail.
It sounds like you need to learn something quick and effective. Check into Reality based stuff. You want to be pushed and put in those stressful situations and know how it feels and react.
Again, there are many other that can add more and good luck with your search and be safe.
Jason
Posted by: everyone
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:05 PM
I have heard good things about this group:
http://www.modelmugging.org/index.htmYou can call and see if they have a branch or seminar in your area.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:25 PM
Jason -
Quote:
Also, as a petite women BJJ i don’t' think is wise. Nothing against BJJ but for a petite female to grapple with a bigger opponent the technique better be spot on and that will most likely take time to learn and perfect.
BJJ is a good idea for women. Women are very likely to be forced on their backs by men, and that is what the art specializes in. All self defense is going to take time to perfect.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:28 PM
Quote:
I don't think a knife is a good idea. At least last I heard that it is illegal to carry a knife and it could easly be used against her. Unless she starts training in knife techniques i advise against that.
I advise against carrying anything you don't know how to use. Learn to use a knife,gun, taser, etc.. and carry one.
Quote:
On the contrary I think RBSD stuff is exactly what she needs. It can address those adrenaline situations to an extent, but not fully. At least you will have experienced it and not totally freeze when attacked.
RBSD stuff is just too kooky, mostly. I suppose there is good stuff out there though.
Quote:
Also, as a petite women BJJ i don’t' think is wise. Nothing against BJJ but for a petite female to grapple with a bigger opponent the technique better be spot on and that will most likely take time to learn and perfect.
Yeah, royce had a terrible time with bigger, stronger, unskilled opponents. lol....
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And what if there is more than one attacker? You think a petite female should be stuck on the ground with one of the guys while the buddies surround her?
If there is more than one attacker then she would go to the ground. Good to know how to avoid that and learn some escapes as well.
It's going to take time to learn and perfect any technique. But, if we re going to cover every single scenario this will never end.
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A spray might be useful but they aren't 100% and if I remember they emit a stream which means you have to be somewhat accurate and/or the attacker is relatively close. And then if you nail them run tail.
You could just get a little can that emits a stream. 
OR, you could get the good stuff that emits a cone shaped cloud of mist, some that shoots large amounts of sticky foam, gel, etc...works for multiple attackers too. 
Quote:
It sounds like you need to learn something quick and effective. Check into Reality based stuff. You want to be pushed and put in those stressful situations and know how it feels and react.
There is no short term, quick and effective answer here, despite what the rbsd people want you to believe. 
first and foremost though, you need to learn avoidance and awareness.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:38 PM
You can't even compare her to royce. Come that is like comparing apples to oranges. royce techniques is top notch. How long do you think it will take her?
I don't advocate one or the other. But i have see both sides and mainly surviving is what you need and that ain't tradition. You do need to use what works. But my understand is you wanted something that you could learn rather quick and RBSD stuff is just that.
Brian, give her a month of BJJ and a month of some RBSD and put her against an attacker. First try BJJ and then whatever RBSD, which one do you think would work for her? RBSD teaches a lot of instict type stuff, a month of BJJ and it won't be insticnt of second nature to her yet.
Now, that is not to say ya don't compliment RBSD or whatever with BJJ. It can't hurt, but the last place a small female wants to be is on the ground.
Also, I didn't know some sprays throw clouds, that is good. But like Brian said, make sure you use it be familiar with it.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:44 PM
Quote:
You can't even compare her to royce. Come that is like comparing apples to oranges. royce techniques is top notch. How long do you think it will take her?
I wasn't comparing her to royce. I was rebuking your statement about bjj. royce was just the one that proved it could be used effectively against MUCH bigger and SKILLED opponents. How long would it take to learn something against someone who is bigger and UNskilled?
I dunno, Ask MattJ
I don't think a month is long enough to learn much of anything except avoidance and awareness.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 02:50 PM
it sure sounded like it. and I never said BJJ is not for the small. But technique will prevail but that technique takes time. I believe Royce had trained years before his UFC debut?
I diagree that ya can't learn something in a month. Some RBSD are designed for just that. Shoot, ask Dedicated1's girlfriend. She put him down during a demonstration at the ECGT4 and she is a petite female.
Way to go wades g/f.
In any event, OP go out and see what is your area. Alot of good stuff was provided and see what fits you.
Good luck!!
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 03:21 PM
Quote:
Brian, give her a month of BJJ and a month of some RBSD and put her against an attacker. First try BJJ and then whatever RBSD, which one do you think would work for her? RBSD teaches a lot of instict type stuff, a month of BJJ and it won't be insticnt of second nature to her yet.
How do you know? BJJ is certainly not easy, but to say that someone can't learn something in a month is overstating it quite a bit. 
BJJ classes involve a ton of resistance training, which results in "instinctive" learning very quickly.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 03:24 PM
Not saying she or anyone can't. I just said in her situation to train one and the other and test both and see which gives her the best results.
Besides, BJJ is not the only system/art that teaches ground work.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 03:32 PM
Never said it was.
I just said it
specializes in teaching how to fight off your back, which is a common position for women (or smaller guys) to end up in, in a fight against a man.
Posted by: everyone
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 03:40 PM
IMO Groundfighting is the most important fighting skill a woman should have. If they are not fighting on the ground, they should be running. BJJ may/may not be the best groundfighting system, but it is the most common other then wrestling. Being that it is common, it is a good choice to recommend because there’s a good chance she will find an instructor.
Reality Based systems are great if a person wants to have some skills but doesn’t want to train long term. The basic defenses are covered up front along with scenario training. However, IMO they are lacking the depth of a traditional martial art.
Posted by: duanew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 04:06 PM
Phil Messina-The Modern Warrior
Posted by: Dedicated1
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 06:54 PM
You can see if any of these schools are close to you. Krav Maga is a great self-defense system, for all sizes.
http://www.israelikrav.com/contact.html
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 08:49 PM
Quote:
But my understand is you wanted something that you could learn rather quick and RBSD stuff is just that.
And there is the problem, RBSD is simply short for I want to be able to defend myself but I don't want to spend any time working at it. I know that sounds harsh but it's the damn truth. RBSD is not all bad, and there are some great programs out there, but at the end of the day, the only way you get good at anything is hard work over a long period of time...period.
So I am sorry if I offend anyone in RBSD schools but the first thing you MUST do in order to gain my respect is stop thinking you can teach it better and in a shorter time.
There is nothing wrong with focusing you system on SD, cut out the fluff, I am all for it but when you make people think that after a month of training they can defend themselves...all you are doing is setting them up to get hurt.
Posted by: Dedicated1
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 09:45 PM
I can only speak for Krav, but it is designed to be learned in a very short time. The average student can learn a basic choke defense in as little as one class. ( Depending on the Student of course.) So in just a few Months a Student could become proficiant at basic techniques.
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 10:38 PM
G'day Ehwth,
I highly recommend Senshido for real world self protection
http://www.senshido.com/They are Canadian based (international really) but have a couple of guys in the NYC area. I'm an Aussie so have no idea about the layout of NYC, so I highly recommend you visit the senshido forum and ask there, link below,
http://senshido.savi.ca/index.phpIf you don't go with Senshido then I suggest you do find another Reality Based Self Defence (RBSD) provider, be sure that they cover the behavioural, Emotional and Psychological (BEP) aspects of violence. if you are only learning techniques and not how to apply them in a dynamic realist attack which included the BEP elements then you are being robbed.
for eg I have seen countless "self defence" classes demonstrate a defence for a bear hug (just a random eg.) by doing he typical
stomp on the foot turn and elbow to the head, or even throw then forward over you hips/shoulder. now if the attack is simply holding you in place then these techniques can work, however the reality of the attack is that the attacker is grabbing you in that manner in order to carry you off to a secondary location (into the bushes, down an ally, into a waiting car etc) to carry out a greater assault/crime. Try these techniques whilst being carried backward, you will find it extremely difficult to reach his foot let alone stomp it, and you do not have the grounding to elbow with any damaging power, that requires grounding to torque against. this is just one e.g. the e"traditional" defence does work under certain circumstances, but a RBSD response should work under all (or at least the vast majority) of likely circumstances) it MUST take into account the BEP of real world violence
PLease don't fall in to the delusion of thinking that RBSD is military combatives it is not and those who train in camo are simply playing weekend warrior ( unless you wear the outfit as part of your daily life, such as a member of the defence force, then why train in it, it is simply a marketing tool to attract members). any class claiming RBSD that requires a uniform is misusing the RBSD Label. you should be training in the type of clothes that you regularly wear in your normal life, I'm not say ing you should wear your $600 suit to training but wear realistic clothing, it's even a good Idea to go to an Op shop and purchase a cheap suit to train in ( maybe not all the time but occasionally )
I specialise in Female self protection, and I consider my self a RBSD instructor, I have 23-24 years of Martial arts under the belt, and have trained and studied as many different styles as I could, for the last decade and a 1/2, I have focussed almost exclusively on self protection for real world violence, this lead me to the RBSD Movement. That is what RBSD does provides self defence based on what actually happens in real world violence. (beyond the Pub)
I am completely independent, I do not pay money or receive money from any organisation, If I recommend a system or instructor then it is because I have an honest belief in the system and/or person
If that is your aim then why study a sport or an stylized art, if you needed to learn how to speak a foreign language for a trip overseas you wouldn't spend three years earning a bachelor degree in linguistics, no you would undertake a course that is specifically designed for travelers, the degree will more then happily do the job but it's also going to give you a lot of unneeded info for your needs
I do not wish to put down sport or art systems, most do provide some self defence skills, others not so much, but none of them are designed specifically for real world violence they rarely if at all take into account the BEP element. (BEP in my opinion, is the crucial element of RBSD that is lacking elsewhere.)
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An ex who is utterly passionate and have been training in BJJ and MMA had opened my eyes up a bit then. Per se, I used to believe that as long as I had enough heart and perserverence, I can overcome anyone trying to attack me. I don't think of myself as a helpless petite woman. But needless to say that with a few "rounds" at home with him, he proved how easily I can be submitted.
OK for one thing you can overcome an attacker, there are thousands of reports of untrained "weaker" people fighting off attackers. Just last weak a 12 year old girl fought of an abductor, a couple of weeks before an 11 year boy did the same (QLD Australia news stories) these Kids wouldn't have weighed 105 LBS nor is it likely they exceeded 5 foot in hight.
Do not loose you belief in your ability to fight off an attacker, you can just as thousands of others have across the world. loosing in a match fight to a trained MMA fighter is not a measure of how you would perform in a real attack. At best it tells you how you would perform in a contest between the dude. Heres the thing (and this is important and often overlooked by the MMA guys spouting their system as all that is needed for Self defence), you're mate wasn't "Attacking" you he was engaged in a MMA contest with you. as a result he fought you with a MMA mindset not an predators mindset. And this makes a big difference.
A rapist does not attack with the mindset of an MMA fighter, even if he is well trained. they do not approach you like they would a competitor in the cage/mat/ring. For one thing they have chosen you because they already believe they can achieve there objective, they see themselves as superior and more powerful then you (even if this is just imagined to convince themselves) they don't need to use MMA they are good enough (and is trying to proove that) as they are. This applies equally to a stranger (rare) and the known (more common) rapist. Infact the acquaintance rapist usually undermines your trust and has some form of emotional leash that they employ as an entry technique to the physical assault. a trained rapist does not think along the lines of "I'll feign, shoot in with a double leg, pass the guard to a mount and G&P. no it will be more along the lines of "I'll tackle this B***H, tear her pants off and ***** her, if she gives me any trouble I'll slap her around or use this knife to scare her quite." big difference. and as much as the second version sounds scarier it is the easier to defend against.
You don't need to learn new moves All you need to do is learn how to use your existing toolbox using a behavioural delivery system. (Senshido does this). you have learned all of the motor skills you need to defend yourself before you started pre-school, the majority of natural defensive responded where being developed in the womb (a 7 wks of embryo was recorded "flinching' to a sudden stimulus). Why would you build a new road when the old road is in perfect condition, it is much easier to repair and build onto the existing road then to build a new one entirely. ( think Neural pathways to complete the analogy)
Instead of learning to apply defense with in a competition or sporting (or Artistic) BEP learn to apply it in an real world Attack BEP.
Again I do not wish to put down the value of sport or artistic training, these are very valuable avenues, but if your goal is real world self protection then go to a specialist for that first, this will also allow you to truly appreciate the martial arts as you don't have to question whether it works on the street. plus they will only enhance your RBSD training.
Now if you will excuse me My dear , I need to disagree with some of the other contributors to your query, (By the way it is alright to disagree with us if you think we are wrong, I disagree with a few things that have been suggested, I'll provide reasons why, but it is up to you to decide which better rings true to you and your reality)
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/22/08 11:57 PM
Kimo2007 said
Quote:
Great question and one I have brought up myself. Your ex is right in many ways, there is only so much a 105 pound woman can do in a straight up fight against and bigger attacker.
I disagree, no I strongly disagree, their are plenty of things a smaller, weaker female (or child) can do against such an attacker, however in the case of a match fight as described in ehwth post the the likelihood, all-things being equal, that the bigger stronger person will win, but that applies to any match fight. It's a small distinction but by saying specifically "105 pound woman" you add to the limiting beliefs of small people and females in general.
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BJJ offers you some options because it's based more on leverage then on striking power, as a small woman if you can keep you head I'd imagine an attacker would make a mistake you could exploit and possibly give you a chance to escape.
true if the BJJ is trained with self defence in mind, train it for sport and it's next to useless in the real world ( for the beginner)
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I would stay away from the "reality based" systems that teach you to strike hard and furious but don't spend much time on techique, they have some value but personally (just my opinion) I don't think they offer a realistic skill that would help you in an attack.
Kimo what experience to you actually have with "Reality based" systems, I understand it is your opinion but in this case I fully disagree in my experience and via my research I have not found any system that better meets the actual requirements for real world self protection as well or as completely as RBSD does.
If you are referring to military combatives that used reality based training then I agree, the reality of a front line soldier is grossly inappropriate to the reality of the average citizen.
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My thoughts are that you should carry a knife, learn how to shank someone and take BJJ or Judo or some type of art thats main focus is on leverage. Striking will help to some degree, but I don't that should be your first line of defense.
Avoide, run, spray, tase, shoot, stab, strike, grapple, is maybe the order that you should consider. The better you are on the first few, the less you will need the others.
Man I so disagree with this, I do not advocate carrying weapons of any kind for the purpose of self defence. In Australia it is illegal to carry ANY item for the purpose of self defence. so every thing listed in your list is prohibited in Oz. (except avoids an run)
Even if this was not the case I would not encourage weapon carry, a weapon is only useful if it is in your hand (ie deployed), My research shows that if you have a weapon on you you are more likely to try to use it as your first point of call ( sorry I can't provide a reference , it was a while ago now, and I don't have time to search), basically your attention is generally always on the weapon. this is evident in the pat that occurs when some one is carrying, they pat or brush the location of the weapon to ensure it's there, as re-assurance, this also indicates a reliance on such weapon. this reliance will reduce options and then there's the the added time taken to deploy the weapon. what if you don't have it on you. the most common rape and assault against females occurs in their own home, how many people carry around the house. (other then the paranoid)
I agree that the ability to use improvised weapons ifs a beneficial tool, but I disagree with the whole carry thing. ( this could be a cultural thing as well ) but I see more negatives (for the average civie) when carrying.
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But my understand is you wanted something that you could learn rather quick and RBSD stuff is just that.
And there is the problem, RBSD is simply short for I want to be able to defend myself but I don't want to spend any time working at it. I know that sounds harsh but it's the damn truth.
This may be true for YOU, kimo, but it also sounds like you want fighting ability not just self defence (I separate the two considerably, though I acknowledge the overlap)
RBSD's number one goal is escape ( and survival), we do not train people to fight but to fight off or fight back and escape ( if we can't avoid diffuse). it may seem to be a hazy line but in my eyes it is quite defined
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RBSD is not all bad, and there are some great programs out there, but at the end of the day, the only way you get good at anything is hard work over a long period of time...period.
I agree that hard work and time does indeed improve skill and ability but it is not the only way, gross motor skills (for an example) do not need continual practice to perform, they are natural and to some degree automatic. in the majority of these movements have been practiced and cemented into an individual by the time they reach preschool.
My system, and I admit that this does not represent all RBSD systems, first shows the student how to use there natural (instinctual) movements and defense responses in real world violence ( we maintain the existing road), we then show how to modify and tactically improve these existing abilities (we all have them) ( we build upon the existing road) after they are able to do this with a behavioural application, we then look at introducing new techniques and concepts to further improve their chance of escape. so on.
Using this method it takes a very short time for a person to be able to effectively defend and escape form a realistic attack. during this time they also receive instruction on how to de-escalate and how to use the behavioural aspect (BEP) to their advantage (the BEP approach should be a part of any system claiming to be RBSD,)
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So I am sorry if I offend anyone in RBSD schools but the first thing you MUST do in order to gain my respect is stop thinking you can teach it better and in a shorter time.
I am not offended dude (just for the record), the thing is specialised training will produce quicker results then non specialised training. students can and do perform in real life self defence better and in less time when they train RBSD concepts and methods.
It can be said the other way as well, TMA, sport MA, MMA etc must stop thinking that RBSD can't do it better and faster or more accurately they they can. this is not a shot at these systems it is a simple truth (re socialized training) that is consistent across any discipline from learning to drive a car to mathematics
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There is nothing wrong with focusing you system on SD, cut out the fluff, I am all for it but when you make people think that after a month of training they can defend themselves...all you are doing is setting them up to get hurt.
To the contrary I can easily prepare the average person to defend them selves successfully in the real world in one month, infact I have done just that (according to some of my students), I do not pretend to be able to turn them into a ring fighter in that time, but that is a different world altogether.
It's funny And this isn't directed at you Kimo, just a general observation. I have never heard an RBSD guy state they could beat an MMA guy in the cage /ring etc, yet virtually every MMA guy believes they are superior to an RBSD guy in the street.
Anyway, I disagree with some of you views but I do not disrespect them. and I hope I haven't come across as such here.
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/23/08 12:53 AM
BrianS Said
Quote:
Your eyes have been opened!! Many people have a perception of what they would or could do. Then when they try it's another matter altogether,lol.
You don't know how many times I've heard, "I'll just kick em' in the balls," or "I'll just hit them in the throat or eyes." Well, I don't think so. Not in a real situation. Relying on dirty tactics to get you out of things is dangerous at best.
Can you explain how "Legit tactics" are less dangerous as "Dirty" tactics. infact striking the eyes and throat (even the groin kick) have a higher percent chance of causing an escapable reaction then most other tactics.
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Spray is good. it will allow you time to get out of the situation. Tasers aren't bad either!
providing you actually have them ready to go and deployed before the attack occurs. remember the 21 foot rule, and that was tested on trained LEO's drawing an accessible side arm. not a small can somewhere in your hand bag or pocket.
But I've expressed my views on carrying.
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Running is a good idea too.
can't argue with that.
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Going to a self defense seminar is empowering,but it should make people realize how much they don't know and how much they need to know. Instead they make people think they are invincible because they now know a few secret techniques. WRONG.
it depend s on the course you attend, but sadly Brian is right many of these quick seminars do not provide the sort of mental and emotional stimulation needed to provide a transition to the real world outside of the training location, hell most self defence courses are simply karate classes in street clothes doing bunkai and one step.
Though that is changing with the RBSD movement making an influence and forcing providers to provide some more realism.
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http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
Here is a good place to start. It's not designed specifically for women, but it would help you lot I think.
I second Brians recommendation, there is a lot of good and relevent info on Marcs website
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I believe a grappling art best suits women for self defense because in most cases your attacker wants to get you to the ground and control you from there. There are many techniques you could learn to get out of that situation and possibly injure your attacker in the process.
Prevention is better then cure, it is far better to avoid going to the ground at all, so you must have tools that help you stay upright, some one inevitably asks how to you defend from some one grabbing you (or insert any attack), my answer is always don't let them grab you in the first place.( to quote Rich Dimitri, how did you end up there in the first place). in my eyes it is better to provide a beginner with workable strategies to avoid going to ground.
However "even monkeys fall out of trees", and this is why it is a very good Idea to be familiar with escaping from the ground, and obviously BJJ fills this requirement well. but for the purpose of Self Defence it is more important to focus on escape from the ground as opposed to winning from the ground. this is where the BJJ stuff for self defence should concentrate, forget submissions (at least at a basic level)
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RBSD stuff is just too kooky, mostly. I suppose there is good stuff out there though.
Could you let us know your experience with RBSD Brian, I don't wish to come across as having a go at your beliefs, it's just from my experience it is not the same. I'm genuinely curious as to where you get your ideas on this. There are good systems out there, and without trying to sound up my self I believe Mine is among the better, as is Senshido, which I incorporate a fair amount of in my system *( with Rich's permission), I have found it to be possibly the best system for RBSD out there There are of course others ( Marc MacYoung, Tony Blauer, SDF (Dave Turton), BCA(Geoff Thompson and Peter Consterdine), just to name a few that I recommend. I may be lucky in that I have found the better systems, as a result I find it hard to believe there is such a negative view of RBSD out there.
Mind you If you are including the camo wearers then that may explain something. I have nothing against military combatives but for civilian Self defence , RBSD it is not.
RBSD is the quickest way to be prepared for real life violence (specialised training etc) it does not take away from any other system except for those claiming falsely to be superior. It often will provide the bridge between MA and the streets.
anyway I could post more but I really should be doing other things. I think I've expressed my views without stepping on any toes, if I have I appologise (i have big feet)
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/23/08 12:44 PM
Quote:
RBSD is the quickest way to be prepared for real life violence (specialized training etc) it does not take away from any other system except for those claiming falsely to be superior. It often will provide the bridge between MA and the streets.
Well this is where we disagree my friend. The main reason being is most RBSD systems are simply an add on to MA training, not "systems" unto there own. The real problem is people take these courses and that is the beginning and end of their training so it's not a supplement to MA training, it's a replacement and it's a poor replacement IMO.
I think part of the problem is that so many MA schools have lost their way and forget they are a SD system first, a sport second and a tradition a distant third. This has opened the door for the RBSD to market themselves into the mainstream of MA training.
Personally I like RBSD, and think it should be incorporated into any school that claims to teach SD. But you loose me when you claim it can be learned quickly, sure certain things can be learned quickly but actual technique and ability takes time, I don't care who you are, and the smaller you are the more that technique needs to be spot on, focus on just gross motor movement, is not going to get the job done.
Let me touch on my experience with RBSD and Krav, since it was asked. I train at 2 schools, one is a Krav school with a heavy RBSD slant, and I train at a Kenpo school with a heavy MMA slant (we have a team that fights, and a Machado BB BJJ instructor etc etc).
So I think I have a unique view since I see and workout with such a wide range of people, and this is what I base my opinions on.
So if you want to find some common ground, I would tell her to enroll in BJJ for the long haul, and take some RBSD as a compliment, that is the best SD training path for a 105 pound women IMO.(keep in mind I am a striker, not a grappler)
Weapons, I say a knife because no one dies of an accidental knifing, and if she learns how to use it, it can save her life. But I do agree with you on the no weapon idea, I am just on the fence about it. My wife carries a knife, and trust me she knows how to use it. Will she be able to keep her head and bring it into action at the right time...I hope I never learn the answer.
So just to be clear, the reason I advised she stay away from RBSD is that she needs a base art that is effective and functional first, if she goes to most RBSD schools she will think she doesn't need other training, and that is simply not true. RBSD has something to offer, but it is not a complete answer IMO.
OK hope this post makes sense I have been pulled away and came back to it several times so if it's all over the map my apologies.
-Kimo
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/23/08 01:11 PM
now that makes sense.
I totally agree that she needs to have a good base. I wasn't saying she should take a few classes and be done with it. It is definitely a long term thing whether it Krav, RBSD"s BJJ whatever.
I guess I am not a good example and that was what i was commenting on. Becauase I start out TMA and got a good base and that just helped with my Krav training.
To the OP if you can find a school that has mutliple systems/arts that might be a good idea. See what fits you and what you like.
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/23/08 10:19 PM
Hey Kimo I'm happy to disagree mate, it's all the same bowl of fruit.
MA and RBSD do go hand in hand contrary to what some RBSD instructor proclaim.
My approach is to provide an RBSD base first, be able to defend yourself in the real world, then go on to explore the greater Martial Arts, the RBSD will compliment your MA and the MA will complement your RBSD.
The majority of people join a MA for the purpose of Self defence, they stay and continue for other reasons. Thus provide them with RBSD first, build on it and expand later.
it just seems logical to me that you would first fix the problem while you work on building a better device. why go with out for a few years (months if you like) when you can use the existing device
anyway I all's good, different approaches to the same mountain.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/24/08 09:27 AM
My advice to you would be to forget about your size (its always going to be a factor), and get involved in an mma-type training program. That doesn't mean you have to compete yourself, etc. And it doesn't even have to mean training with a competitive team. What it does mean is that you want to combine striking with grappling and spar, a lot, with men.
You won't fare as well against them. But you will learn to become skilled and technical (you will HAVE to be) because the smallest of those training always do. Then when you encounter someone not as skilled or in condition compared to those with whom you train, you will fare much better.
There are no shortcuts or secrets. It's about hard work and sweat equity. A good strategy for SD won't hurt either.
Posted by: Shawn Sinn
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/24/08 07:55 PM
You seemed to have found the chink in the MA world. Everyone here can point out which system is the best and worst for your situation and will be correct.
As for using a weapon for self defense, that has its own issues. Sprays and other chemical defense weapons know no one side. I have heard many stories of the chemical back splashing (one way or an other) onto the sprayer. Knifes, clubs, guns all can be taken away or stashed in a location that makes it difficult to draw in times of need, etc. That takes us back around to knowledge as a weapon for self defense, ie MA.
My humble advice is this, MA no matter what kind each has its strength and weakness and time to perfect. All "masters" and their schools have its strength and weakness. So stop looking in that direction. Look at the art, not the instructors. Reasoning is simple, even under the wing of a bad teacher, it is a teacher. Once you get your feet wet, then you will have a better idea of what kind of master and school you need. But before you find a master (good or bad), you need an art.
I suggest you look into the following:
Sambo:
the "art" was created for the special forces of the old soviet union. It takes into accounts many modern fighting problems (disarming guns and all).
Krav Maga:
created for the isreal army and police. It has been found to be so successful, that many American police forces are starting to take on the training too.
Now there are many other great fighting arts, but because these two are for soldier and cops (who need highly effective training in the shortest time), they don't fully carry the richness of the "ancient" arts. Both will get your feet wet on how to defend yourself. And with that knowledge, you will have a better idea on what you want, thusly were to find it.
good luck
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/25/08 05:36 PM
My Question will MMA training teach her how to cheat? I personally wouldn't like to see a small woman trying to duke it out with a man. I again think she should throw dirt spit in his face and kick him in the ba11$ and hit him in the lower back of his head with her yawara/brush or bottle of beer.
Not that MMA train won't teach her how to do the blunt trama stuff and sneaky grappling moves but I think a woman especially a small one needs to know how to hurt someone quickly. And yes here I go again eye jabs, nut$ kicks, knees and kicks to knees breaks the assailant down and pick up something and hit hard with it. Don't fight him heads up
fairly.
I think groundfighting is important in this training but not to invite it, fight to get up and escape or maim (stomp his joint r head against the hard floor). I believe it would be ill advised for a woman to fall back in a guard inviting the mount (she better be real good at GF) I do believe that if forced to GF man or woman its best to be prepared.
While working the streets most of the women that won fights with men hit them with something hard or stab them or shoot them,then comessed to whipping his a$$.
Rarely do they out punch or out wrestle a man unless he is already serverly injuried, then they still hit them with something hard, stab them or ...
Posted by: everyone
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/25/08 05:59 PM
Women rarely out punch or out wrestle a man because they are not trained to. If you put a trained woman fighter up against your average Joe, my money would be on the trained fighter. But the problem is, most people, including most men, don't want to train 3-4 days per week. At best, they are willing to take a weekend seminar. That's where the Reality Based training can quickly give them some options if violence is forced upon them. They know they are not going to come out of a self defense class thinking they are invinceable. If they do, the trainer didn't do their job! And yes, people can learn useful skills toward defending themselves in a weekend seminar.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/25/08 06:33 PM
Sure, they might be shown some useful things in a weekend, but do they know them and can they apply them to a real situation? Doubt it.
Scenario: Sally Sausagecrinkle goes to a weekend self defense seminar. She learns how to escape a rear choke, throat strikes,knees, eye rakes, groin shots,whatever you like etc.....she even gets to take on the guy in the red suit for a couple of minutes like everyone else there. Sally goes away feeling empowered and ready to defend herself!! No way is she vulnerable anymore!! TA DA!!!
A month and a half later sally gets attacked by a would be rapist who is twice as strong as her and intent on doing whatever is necessary. Sally already forgot what she "learned" and is in BIG trouble.
At best a weekend seminar should show you that you need more self defense. You are right about everyone wanting alot of skill for a little effort. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that way.
There are no shortcuts, period.
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/25/08 11:20 PM
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Women rarely out punch or out wrestle a man because they are not trained to. If you put a trained woman fighter up against your average Joe, my money would be on the trained fighter. But the problem is, most people, including most men, don't want to train 3-4 days per week. At best, they are willing to take a weekend seminar. That's where the Reality Based training can quickly give them some options if violence is forced upon them. They know they are not going to come out of a self defense class thinking they are invinceable. If they do, the trainer didn't do their job! And yes, people can learn useful skills toward defending themselves in a weekend seminar.
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Where did the thought or idea come from that these Combat street training applications would be just a weekend study? Maybe this isn't what you meant but if not where did that statement come from? I believe this should be a full study that takes years to perfect these fighting skills and preparations should be planned to help assure they are useful.
Is it Reality to believe that a woman can punch out a man heads up? Some people reality are based on unrealistic expectations.
As for a trained female fighter duking it out with a man and winning it's possible but not a sure bet by no means. With all kinda of physical adavantages going to the man, along with figting all his life vs. her 2-3 maybe four years of training. She better know how to cheat and seek a method to escape this is the problem with some people they think winning is the key but really survival is or the street.
From the words of a trained LEO with some advance training in JJ trying to defend against her alcoholic spouse with one backward slap slammed her across the room, she quickly realize heads up is not where she wanted to be, she escaped.
BrianS wrote - A month and a half later sally gets attacked by a would be rapist who is twice as strong as her and intent on doing whatever is necessary. Sally already forgot what she "learned" and is in BIG trouble.
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My point exactly, even if the woman trully skilled there is a power difference and body mass differences that has to be dealt with, fight dirty and escape to survive, don't think I'm going to punch or choke him out. If it happens great but I suggest hurt him and get out of there! I've seen women knock men out heads up but it was because he made some big mistake and most was because she hit with something some have punched them out (bc they had brothers they grew up fighting) how many women grew up fighting?
Most time women that fight men go to the hospital or worse read the newspapers. If you got to go, go out fighting Man or Woman.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 12:11 AM
I am glad Neko said it better than me?
And I just want to be clear that I am for long term training an dno fly by weekend seminars. It will take practice.
Also, I didn't recommend BJJ because I had a buddy (guy) that was showing me some moved from his back, and he is a purple belt in BJJ, and being that I am a bid dude, it can't even get his legs around my waist and had to or try to change up while demonstrating. And he has been practicing for a while. What would small female do if someone my sife mounting her? She better be real good from her back.
I do believe dabbling in it all will be better. But she should try as hard as possible never to goto the ground.
Posted by: Zach_Zinn
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 12:16 AM
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They know they are not going to come out of a self defense class thinking they are invinceable. If they do, the trainer didn't do their job! And yes, people can learn useful skills toward defending themselves in a weekend seminar.
Well said..this pretty much explains it all, I think you guys are giving people way too little credit, there are plenty of women who know the context of what they are learning.
Hey a weekend seminar is better than nothing, all the better if it gives them something to ponder or work on in the future.
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 12:52 AM
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There are no shortcuts, period.
Why is it that people assume that RBSD is using short cuts. Properly trained RBSD is the the quickest way to prepare anyone for a real world violence encounter, it does this by Specialised training, not by "short cuts" ( which implies it lacks something needed)
As for the weekend course being able to prepare some one to defend themselves, well the answer is it depends. it depends on the student and it depends on the method of the instructor.
If a W/E course consists of nothing but techniques (such as if he does this you do this) then it isn't going to be very helpful, infact a third of what they learnt would be lost on the trip back home. Technique based courses are great as an introduction or a refresher but they are not stand alone courses.
I run Female Self Protection and Rape Prevention Seminars, you could consider these to be W/E courses ( though I prefer a 1 hour lesson per week for 6 weeks compared to a single 6 hour lesson, learning Psychology explains why), I teach very little techniques in these short seminars, instead I focus on concepts, generally concepts that can be applied to a wide variety of situations. I do not teach my ladies to fight i teach them to fight back and escape I do this for the exact reasons as mentioned before, ( a weaker female unlikely to be able to go toe to toe with a stronger male).
I may show them a couple of basic and natural techniques but in general I show them how to deploy there existing weapons (the stuff they have been using and developed since preschool), these don't have to be learnt, they are gross motor and already very well established in the person.
In these semis I will show the ladies how to use the BEP of the situation, and give them a familiarity with them so that it reduces the risk of freezing, I use BEP as a delivery system if you like. I give them a means to motivate themselves into action and to empower them.
By the end of the course these ladies turn from Pussycat to Lioness, one of the things I do towards the end of the course is to crashtackle the girls from behind ( I'm 115 kgs and 6'2") onto a mat (for safety.... usually mine 
). the goal is to turn into me and use anything they have to escape. ( I encourage "Shredding" see Senshido), I regularly end up in a Fetal position, again for my own protection. You tend to do that when the girl you just tackled suddenly starts kicking kneeing scratching and slapping (and most of them started this before we hit the mat)
The crash tackle is just one of things I do, I decided to use this as an example
Heres a couple of action shots ( just because I can).
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 07:25 AM
Jason -
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Also, I didn't recommend BJJ because I had a buddy (guy) that was showing me some moved from his back, and he is a purple belt in BJJ, and being that I am a bid dude, it can't even get his legs around my waist and had to or try to change up while demonstrating. And he has been practicing for a while. What would small female do if someone my sife mounting her? She better be real good from her back.
BJJ has a proven track record as far as effectiveness. It is not a miracle, however. If you are twice the size of the other person, that will be a factor, no matter what anyone else says. Martial arts training is an equalizer, not a dominator.
PS - Dude.......spellcheck!
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 10:00 AM
Dude, i was writing that at midnight while on my second job. PFFT!!
I agree the BJJ works and it would be something useful that she should train in as well.
I guess the bottom line is, she needs to train long term, and not look for a quick fix but there are some system/arts that can accomodate and teach some useful tools realively quick but she should keep sharpening those skills.
Posted by: mdsj
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 02:02 PM
I know krav has been mentioned a couple of times. I am in krav and I will say this: the girls in my class would have a very good chance, no, a great chance at immobilizing a larger male attacker because thats who they train with. And catching someone one off guard and hitting them in the throat, or the testicles is not as difficult as it seems especially if you train that way all of the time.
I have trained bjj and wrestling extensively, and muay thai as well and they are good arts to know. But there is no comparison to an RBSD system like krav. We train with weapons that attackers will actually use(small knives, handguns, etc.) Plus I have never been able to learn something so quickly and effectively.
At least visit:
www.kravmaga.com and visit a school in your area. One class and you'll know if its for you or not.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/26/08 02:18 PM
I hope we didn't scare of the OP.
We are just trying to throw it out there for ya and ya have to try them and see what fits you.
Posted by: ehwth
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/28/08 10:23 AM
Wow, you guys are all really great. Feels like I'm learning a lot just by reading everyone's opinions. Really looking forward to reading it all in more depth once the work day and night classes are done. But yea, continued thanks. =D
Posted by: janxspirit
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/28/08 01:49 PM
Quote:
Hi Everyone, I'm new to the site and have been trying to google up a good place to learn self-defense techniques the last weeks. But haven't found anything. Wondered if anyone could help advise? I'm not quite 5'2 and about 105 lbs more or less.
Since having been sexually attacked more than enough times years ago from a long-winded background and not knowing how I got myself into an abusive relationship when I was 16. I have been wanting to learn to train myself appropriately in being able to defend myself, as of most situations, there's no one there to help.
An ex who is utterly passionate and have been training in BJJ and MMA had opened my eyes up a bit then. Per se, I used to believe that as long as I had enough heart and perserverence, I can overcome anyone trying to attack me. I don't think of myself as a helpless petite woman. But needless to say that with a few "rounds" at home with him, he proved how easily I can be submitted.
He has also disclaimed a lot of the Martial Arts out there and said I'd be better off just running or carrying a spray. He also said that taking certain MA classes can help a little, but to train with the same people every day versus being in a real life situation can make a big difference. But this being the most I can do, I can't accept.
I do know of common knowledge that being trained incorrectly is worse than never having been trained at all. And I fear trying to google classes and schools reading reviews of those who have little knowledge in art..
It's a long shot. But would anyone have any advises as to where I can start/begin? I live in NYC. Is there any place/instructor that is reputable? Or classes that actually would really test the adrenaline? I don't mind going into the office the next day with bruises if something was learned. =)
Thanks,
A
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is an awesome place to start.
Any MMA school will do wonders for you.
Posted by: drgndrew
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 08/29/08 10:40 PM
Quote:
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is an awesome place to start.
Any MMA school will do wonders for you.
Hey Janx',
I actually RBSD is the better place to START, but MMA is a great place to continue.
It's only My opinion, but I think if you goal is self protection then get yourself a base in self protection (RBSD does that the best), MMA and other arts then come into the play by adding to and cementing techniques, skill and ability.
My way of thinking is to provide a base that allows you to negotiate the realities and differences of real world violence first up (RBSD), this can be done relatively quickly (depending on the person but usually within 2 months, often less). The MMA training, which takes longer to acquire, will only help provide more skills that can be more readily adapted to real world violence because they already have a basic understanding of the realities of it.
Still this is MY preferred approach, and I have found it most beneficial to my students, and from there feedback over the years it seems they do to.
"learn to walk before you run, but in order to learn how to walk you need to understand the ground is solid."
Posted by: Leo_E_49
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 09/14/08 10:41 PM
Also consider Judo as a viable option. The training is always done under resistance and it deals with what happens before you go to the ground. You'd be surprised what you can achieve when you understand the mechanics of leverage and throwing. That said, BJJ knowledge will always be useful even to a Judoka.
Posted by: Kope
Re: Need advice: Self defense for women. - 10/28/08 01:52 PM
The best place to start is with a firearms permit and appropriate training.
The US Department of Justice Crime Victims Survey shows, year after year, that the most effective form of self-defense for women seeking to avoid sexual assault is a firearm. It has the highest success rate in effectively defending the attack, and typically shows a near zero chance of personal injury to the victim.