Breathing From the Dan Tian

When doing standing position my feet should be straight, shoulder length apart, knees slightly bent, back straight, shoulders rolled forward, and head help up.

I still have trouble with the breathing though from my abdomen. I should have my abdomen relaxed and jutting out to breath in. I then compress my abdoment to breath out, and when I relax again and uncompress, air is automatically pulled in again.

My question is though, so long as all this sounds correct, how far out do I extend my abdomen to a "relaxed" position?

I am in "decent" shape and I can relax my abdomen, but I can also extend it like I have a beer belly. I can go further relaxing my stomache to the point it is being stretched.

It is a little uncomfortable in a vigorous stretching way and I was wondering if I am really supposed to relax my abdomen such that its being extended to the point of stretching?

I guess I am not very eloquant in my wording of this, but it is the best I can manage. I did ask this is class and got an answer that "yes, my stomach should be relaxed and protruding" but I don't think I explained the situation and didn't seek to go further with it that day.

Also, my natural reaction is to want to pull my stomach back in a bit when I reach that extended point.

I am just wondering if other's have had similar experiences when they were starting out? I have only learned this technique since I started hsing-i 2 months ago. But I try to stand at least 5 mins a day now for the past couple weeks, and have been trying to absorb as much of Frantzis' opening the energy gates as possible [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Thanks all.

[This message has been edited by hardluck (edited 03-08-2005).]

I don't think your post is hard to understand. I'm not familiar with the specific style you train in, so I really should shut up...
...but if you care for my "outsider" couple of cents, I'd say relax and let the inhalation take place as far as it naturally "wants to".
Having said that, I don't think overdoing it from time to time, as a workout for the diaphragm & co, is going to hurt you any.

(I barely could refrain myself from an unasked-for and off-topic essay on breathing, one of my fav subjects, but I think that was just about two cents worth already )

No I thank you for your response. Its just that I can relax my abdomen and my stomach is fairly flat. But I can relax it farther by almost pushing it out quite far like a beer belly.

I guess now that I try it sitting here It definately feels like the further I push out my stomach the more I feel a sinking of my internal organs...This is what I want to feel correct? I don't think I am compressing my spine either to further extend my stomach.

But I can relax it farther by almost pushing it out quite far like a beer belly.

IMHO if you're pushing it out, that isn't to relax (well abs do relax, but breathing isn't relaxed then)

This is what I want to feel correct?

Unfortunately I'm not sure what you want to feel, when I breath through the Dan Tien the depth of my breath is (usually) natural (relaxed) and I actually feel the breath passing thru the Dan Tien area.

regards,
nenippal

ps: I know that the air isn't actually passing through the skin on my stomach, but that's pretty much what it feels like

Sorry, I reread your original post and it said "breathing FROM the Dan Tien" not THROUGH, in that case I'd guess it's just another name for plain old abdominal breathing, in which case you may want to disregard some later parts of my previous post!

well i guess if/when i become more advanced I will be concentrating on breathing through, but im still trying to pick up some basics [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

C'mon nenipp.... a different thread on breathing? Let's have the essay eh? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Don't tempt me when I've barely recovered from the urge, have some mercy!
I love breathing ;o)

hardluck:

When doing Buddhist Breathing as you describe here (or Post Natal/Birth Breathing as it is also known), it is key to NOT over extend the movements. When distending the belly, it should be comfortable with no stress to the movement. The came is true of the contraction. The longer you do it, the more range of motion you will get.

As to the "beer belly" part, yes...generally, this is what you are looking for. Remeber...from a physical stand point (I won't even get into the energetic unless someone wants to), the movement allows you to sink the thoracic diaphragm so that the deeper breath can more fully oxygenate the lower lobes of the lungs that is often over looked when we "chest breath". So, when you distend the belly on the in breath, make the movement of the belly out as large as comfortably possible and concentrate on sinking the thoracic diaphragm. Make any sense?

Also...you may know this, but you don't mention it and alot of people over look this point...

It is NOT just an matter of distending and then contracting the belly during the breathing pattern. This expansion and contraction works in all 5 directions (front, back, left side, right side and down) at the same time. Find someone that is well trained at this and as they do the breathing, put a hand on the belly and lower back at the same time. You will feel both expanding, not jst the belly. This is true of the sides as well. Put a hand on either side, just above the hip bone and you will feel the sides matching that movement. The most difficult to perform is the internal downward movement...that being to sink the pelvic diaphragm at the same time on the in breath. You are going to probably need a good anatomy book...but the pelvic diaphragm is funnel shaped between the lateral hip walls, the pubis and the coccyx and made up of the levator ani and coccygeus muscles. This helps with the energetic side of things...and I am not going to tell you where to place your hands on someone to see if they are doing that part right! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Anyway...hope that is of some help to you.