Xingyi in the One

What do you think of the Xingyi and Bagua in the movie "the One" with Jet Li? The Xingyi in particular looks very external to me. I'm thinking of the scene before the hospital where the two "Laws" are training their respective arts. I'm just wondering if Xingyi is supposed to look like that, and if all styles/lineages of Xingyi look alike. Can some styles of Xingyi be taught with emphasis on external training? With this I mean neglecting training which leads to what Kempoman would call "true internal power". Or is Jet Li's application of Xingyi coloured by his other MA training?
It seems to me that Jet Li is quite muscular in "Hero". Will Xingyi do this to your body? Or is this kind of muscularity also a result of EMA training?
I'm asking these questions because I've become very interested in internal martial arts. In part due to some interesting posts on this forum, but seeing "the One" also helped a bit. So I would like to know what a good Xingyi teacher/practitioner looks like when practicing.

I haven't seen that movie the "one" in a while. I couldn't watch all of Hero, I got bored and did something else or something.

I don't know for sure myself, maybe someone else knows for sure. But I have seen videos about the huge schools where thousands of kids stay and learn wushu, around near where the Shaolin temple is. Jet Li seemed to be a top student of one of those Wushu schools on the SHaolin Temple documentary I saw. So I don't know, for every martial art out there, there is probably a Wushu for-show version of it too now.

[This message has been edited by serious pain (edited 01-04-2005).]

As with any movie, you guessed it, it's not real. I would agree with serious pain that there is probably a Wushu version of every MA out there, including the IMA's.

In regards to the Xingyi looking external in "the One", I'd have to watch the movie again.
On a side note though, alot of people think that Xingyi looks external, they just can't see what is going on inside the body and haven't had enough experience with the IMA's to understand how they truly function.
Take a staight forward punch from karate and a stright forward punch from Xingyi (i.e. Beng Quan). They may look similar, but the method of power generation and impact are completely different. (Ohhh Sheesh, here we go again with the internal vs external crap!)

"I'm just wondering if Xingyi is supposed to look like that,"

Possibly, IMO - depnds on what type of Xingyi you are doing.

"and if all styles/lineages of Xingyi look alike."

From what examples of Xingyi I have seen they all look relatively similar, but not the same. This could be due to emphasis on differet methods, or it could also be because of different body types. They can look different just so long as the core principles of Xingyi are in place and are beig expresed, whether in training or in fighting.

"Can some styles of Xingyi be taught with emphasis on external training? With this I mean neglecting training which leads to what Kempoman would call "true internal power"."

Not if you want it to be true Xingyi. IF you just want the flashy form then I would consider that Wushu. Without the core principles involved, then the form will be empty and void of power.

"Or is Jet Li's application of Xingyi coloured by his other MA training?"

I would say so. That guy has a brilliant memory to have done so many movies representing so many styles of the martial arts, this could be said of Jackie Chan too.
People just need to remember that these guys are actors. They will spend some time researching for their role which may require that they train in Xingyi or whatever.

"It seems to me that Jet Li is quite muscular in "Hero". Will Xingyi do this to your body? Or is this kind of muscularity also a result of EMA training? "

I suppose it couldbe both. I can tell you from my Bagua and Xingyi experience that the IMA's do build up the body, only in a different way than one may experience within the EMA's. There are certain training pieces within the IMA's that are meant to build up the body (i.e. Fu Hu Gong, Tien Gan) except they focus on building the internal power of the body. They eventually lead to the body looking more fit in some cases. However, I have seen IMA masters that don't have that hard body yet had amazing internal power like Hong Yi Hsiang or Wang Shu Jin.
IMO, Jet looks like he does because he keeps in good shape.

"So I would like to know what a good Xingyi teacher/practitioner looks like when practicing."

IMO, it is difficult to know if someone is good or not by watching them, the only way you will know is if yo have had experience yourself. Find any good clips of Luo Dexiu or Hung Yi Hsiang. That might help. Watch the relaxed way they move with their entire body.
The only other way is to dive in and do a few classes and see for yourself if they have the 'goods'.

Sleepy, out of curiosity, where are you located? Maybe I have heard of a good teacher in your area.

Regards,
Chris

I was wondering if any of you guys know of an instructor of Xingyi or Bagua within the Leeds Area...

I have studied Xingyi for a while and to answer your question Xingyi is trained (The 5 fists) in an external manner but it also requires you to train in specific Qi-gong sets also.


The one shows the direct application of the form and the speed which it can be performed, IMHO its a good style to switch to if you have never practiced an internal form before as you can start with the 5 basic fists, practicing each solo, before moving on to linking the fists, whilst also practicing qi-gong.

Not only is at (seemingly) simple to learn initially, but once you begin to study the five elements and their relation to each fist, and the relationship between them (elements)combined with the qi-gong can give you enough to study the art for life.

Films like "The One" are great because they show enough of the art to pique interest, and even if it is just for show on the film, it can start an interest in the art which could last you a lifetime. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

The best thing about Xingyi for me, is that because the five fists are easy to learn initially, and are fairly simple in their external application, you can build an important foundation for the later internal work. Also, because there are only 5 fists you can soon learn how they relate to each other and how you can flow between them. This is a skill valuable for every martial art, and is the only way to use an art instinctively. (IMHO)

The above represents my opinion, and nothing more.

Thanks for the replies, I think they answer my questions.
Maybe I shouldn't have said external. Explosive might have been better. Nor does the Xingyi "Yulaw" does on the roof of some building seem as fluent as I would expect of an IMA. However, I'm no expert. I'm not even a martial artist, yet. But that was why I wondered how good the Xingyi might be. Anyway, this was not an additional question, I merely wanted to clarify what I meant.

Fisherman:
I live in Copenhagen, Denmark. If you know a teacher over here, you must know everybody. My own search for teachers has given me only one lead, sofar. I will need to see them train, I guess. But I can't tell if they're any good, or if they teach true Xingyi. And I don't want flashy show off wushu.
Your answers seem to suggest that I'll have to try it before I'll know anything. When I know more about them and their lineage I can ask you guys for confirmation, right?
Oh, I wasn't able to find any clips of Luo Dexiu, but I've seen other clips, and I think I know what you mean.

serious pain:
"Hero" is a *slow* movie, indeed.

While Luo Laoshi has some video footage made none of it is available. He does have some baguazhang videos available, however.

Hi everyone, I don't know if this topic is finshed with, but here goes [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

First, about Xingyi, it is one of the three main Chinese internal styles, the other two being Taiji and Bagua. It looks "external" as it is very linear and explosive, the power is generated with fajing rather than muscular power.

Jet Li explains on his web site that he chose xingyi and bagua to show the differences between the villain and the hero.
Xingyi being more direct and overpowering, Bagua as being circular, more meditative. So they were used to set characterisation.

He may be an actor, but he has been practising the forms, movements and techniques for many years so although he may not have been a tough street fighter like William Cheung or Bruce Lee, he might know a little bit about Kung Fu. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

MuchStudy-LittlePractice:
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I was wondering if any of you guys know of an instructor of Xingyi or Bagua within the Leeds Area...</i>

Hi, there is a Xing Yi teacher here :

Yokiyusan Association www.yokiyusan.org

Hsing I/Xing Yi in West Yorkshire. Sometimes possible to arrange tuition in other areas. Wu style

instructor: Damon Smith
Xing Yi specialist (not secondary to TC or anything else). All levels basic through advanced.

They are done wrong, and not real. If you look at the modern forms of these styles they are completely wushufied, done at very high speeds. You can tell they don't know what they are doing by using muscle power and leaning excessively.

There is a misconception about the XingYi looking external, it should NOT look external, at all. Because it is done at faster speeds, it seems to create this image. In fact, its techniques could be used like Shaolin because it combines perfect mechanical timing (moving forward, pulling, countering, and striking) all at the same time. But that is only on the outside, XingYi, if you see masters or qualified instructors do it, looks very relaxed. The movements are fluid, and relaxed, they don't look as powerful as one lets say who has trained in karate, and then starts training in XingYi. The damage is still purely internal, and although it could combine the external to provide some serious physical damage, it is still an internal art. Shaolin combines internal and external, and among the Daoists it is still considered external. If XingYi was like this, it would NOT be one of the main three internal styles.