So is it all crap then

Hi all, n00b here. I would like to state that this is not about chi/ki balls/blasts and all that crap. I watch Dbz, it is a fun action show with some great fight scenes and some cool characters, but I watch is a a bit of fun and nothing more. I do not belive that you can use chi for flying and blasting and all of that, and I do not want to start arguments about me blowing you up with my kamehameha. But I would like to know this, Akira Toriyama was no idiot, he had a vivid imagingation and he got many of his ideas from kung fu movies, so my question is, What moves/training techinques (if any) from Dbz and Db can be apllied to real martial arts? And by this I mean, can or have two fighters ever moved any parts of there bodys so fast that many people could not follow or see the movements? What would the advantage of training with heavy wieghts (I.E the turtle shells in early Db) be, and how much would it help a persons speed and strength? and is it posible to focus a lot of your chi into a certain part of your body (I.E the arms) to help temporarily increse strength in that part of the body? By this I am asking that if it is possible to focus you chi into you arms, how heavy a wieght could a master martial artist push or pull? I hope these questions are not too stupid and I hope you understand that I am a realist, I would just like to know (if just out of curiosity) how much of dbz could happen, and how much of it is confined to tv screens, manga volumes and Akira Toriyamas brain. (p.s sorry about the spelling, I am using a new keyboard, this mixed with the fact that I am dyslexic does not lead to very forum friendly spelling and grammer)

Uh..he he he he

None.. DBZ is a cartoon thats all.

Well I do know it is a cartoon, but are you saying that none of it is based on actual techniques or training styles? If that is what you are saying then ok, but I was quite sure that the internal movement of chi throught the body was used in the braking of stone and moving large objects and such, ah well.

There is a grain of truth is alot of the stuff in dragon ball and some in Dragon ball Z. The facts can easily be told from the fiction however. Example Master Roshi has Goku and Killin dig fields with their finger tips all day, and deliver milk by foot. Where you can train yourself physically by doing hard activities you cant dig a field with your finger tips.

It should be pretty easy to seperate fact from fiction. The chi stuff in DB I consider not disproveable, im of the belief that perhaps ranged chi attacks are possible. Perhaps they are possible but no human can master them. (Im very open minded)

Keep in mind that Goku is not human he is in fact a Sayian, a super powerfull race from another planet. His abilities with chi exceed a humans a tenfold. So in theory if DBZ's take on chi was still 100% real no one here could do most of the stuff in the show.

If you study tia chi, or other IMAS and do your book reading you will see where they extrapolated alot of their creative ideas.

But this isn't a DBZ discussion forum and this threads bound to get shut down.

[This message has been edited by Hunter (edited 12-07-2004).]

Yes it is all crap!

It's hard enough to learn true internal techniques from books and videos that are non-fiction and directed specifically toward the subjuct of internal training.
So what makes you think that a friggin cartoon has any usable information.
It is simply worthless garbage. If you have a truue interest in the IMA's find a teacher.

Peace
Chris

Oh for cryin' out loud, take it easy on the guy. He's been the most respectable, level headed (within reason) guy to bring this up yet. If you must give him a negative as an answer, try to do it in a positive way. Ya cynical, bitter, (mumble)

-Ket

I don't think your question is stupid but most MA don't think about stuff like this, we are more interested in technique and training...........however as you train and advance many of "your thoughts" are natual to us but we don't belabor the point, it's a no mind type of thing, it happens natually.

Thank you for the responses, I probably brought this up in the wrong forum, I guess I was asking more out of curiousity as a DBZ fan than as a martial artist, as it happens I am learning a martial art and even if any of what happenes in DBZ is true I am still years away from beng able to master any of it (and by stuff in DBZ being true I am not talking about the ki balls and that, more of the heavily wieghted training). At the moment I am just building my body into a state where it can start to learn fighint forms and techniqes, so I guess I wasn't asking so that I could imitait any of the training styles, more just out of curiosity. Anyway thanks again for the responses, I look foward to posting on these forums, and hopefully if I have any issues I hae with my art I can find some help here.

loismustdie101@gmail.com,

What martial art are you getting into?

I haven't watched any of the DBZ myself. I tend to try and keep my training methods and fighting techniques based in the real world. I am even hesitant to learn to much from videos or books. This doesn't mean I don't learn things pertaining to my MA from the vids or books - I just try and make sure that the majority of the information I use in my training comes from reliable sources such as my teacher.

Good luck and welcome.

Chris

I must agree. Shooting your energy to wipe out a planet, a person, or a blade of grass is all BS.

the only real energy is the internal kind. the kind you feel when you take a deep breath before a sparring match, or a test, or whatever. It's an energy that can relax you or pump you up, but it's nothing like "Dragon Ball Z."

Wake up.

Have you ever seen ANYONE doing something like that? If humans could, don't you think everyone would know?

I wonder whos butt everyones jumping all over and why? I think its totally unessisary.

I think the point louis.. was trying to make was that the creator may have based the cartoon on actual training and just exaggerated it. I've personally wouldn't know, i've only seen about 5 seconds of it and changed the channel about half way through the first kiball. I can't tell you if any of the exercises or what ever are even remotely possible, usable or even have the most remote link to reality. I can tell you if you want to learn IMAs, find an instructor. You will hardly scratch the surface without one.

My 11yo son watches DBZ occasionally. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

He's now a green belt [3rd kyu]in our system and he thinks DBZ is nothing more than a kids cartoon and not a very good one at that. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

I've caught bits of it and my take on it is that it's pure fantasy a la Hollywood. I have yet to see anything approaching any sort of actual MA training within it.

Now for some reality. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I've just learnt that we are having several seminars early next year with Leo Fong, which should prove to be a lot of hard work and give us the chance to learn a few things! For us higher ranks, we get to do some private advanced sessions which I'm really looking forward to! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

For those of you who are intrested, I am learing gung fu, my master is a 34th genaration shoulin monk and the training is very very tough. If I have not made my self clear I am sorry, I will try to explain again, I understand that very very much of DBZ is pure cartoony rubbish, and I do not expect to learn any techniques from the show, my question was simply are /any/ of the training and fighting methods from DBZ at core aplicable to martial arts, and i did not ask this so I could then watch DBZ and imitate it, I asked because I was intrested in knowing how much about martial arts did akira toriyama know, and how much of his knowledge is shown in DBZ. I know very well that the only path to becoming a great matial artist takes great determination, will, and just a few bruises [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG].

i have a really nice dvd video camera it better be for the money. any way my first teacher punches to fast to pic it up with the camera. his legs and arms disapeer he floats around the room on camera its pretty funny. he got there by spending his time dedicated to his studies.
the idea that fantacy is driven by reality is not to far of. however fantacy does not drive reality, it can inspire though. self discovery and creativity are very important to martial training. dont get to distracted by fancy let it inspire you like music can.

If you want to make your attacks more powerful, focus your Ki, and used "ranged Ki attacks" I suggest you start working on your Kiai. In Japanese arts its pretty universal that the Kiai makes your attacks stronger, makes you more durable, and can somewhat startle an opponent from a short distance to create an opening for you to attack.

So if you really NEED to be some some sort of DBZer path and nothing we say will waver you from wanting to yell all the time in order to be a stronger martial artist, try Kiaijutsu. There's a lot of yelling there.

[This message has been edited by Stampede03 (edited 12-13-2004).]

If it could be used in combat like a ki ball, or used to affect someone else, MAs especially IMAs would probably not been developed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by serious pain:
If it could be used in combat like a ki ball, or used to affect someone else, MAs especially IMAs would probably not been developed.[/QUOTE]

The ideas presented are not extremly far fetched because as a DBZ/DBGT fan I also have considered it. First of all, it is completly insane to believe that a single person can take out a state by merely focusing their ki. But where i insert the reality is focusing your ki, I have read some martial arts books and watched some Martial Artist during training and seen some pretty extreme stuff. Secondly, one must understand where ki comes from which I myself debate, is it from your spirit, God, or your surrounding. I just hope no one thinks it is from wieghts. But I do believe ki can improve performance such as improving strength, power, and speed.

I think a lot of Dragonball has some real martial arts ideas behind them. Take krillin for example he was a shaolin monk before he came to Master Roshie. He is not based on a real monk but the monks are real. The training goku and krillin went through was not all fictional ether. There is a training method that would require you to dig a hole and hold on two buckets of water. You could not spill the water and would jump in and out of the hole. This hole would eventual be dug deeper and deeper until you were able to jump at the desired high. I suppose you could keep doing this and increase the weight until you were able to jump tall buildings in a single bound but … yeah that’s just what they did ……… im going to sort of trail off now good bye

I like dragonball Z - but I believe it is fiction based on realities, so it would be ridiculous to use the fiction (DBZ) as a source of knowledge, Chi and a form of martial art (I forget which) are the roots which DBZ grew from - So they will be a great source of information for you. I suggest you do some research.