another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts

originally I came to this forum hopefully looking for a post that points to a site talking about bo staff techniques(it's for this karate show and I just need to know enough to move the staff around all pretty-like)

anyways I came accross this part of the forum and started reading the posts but am confused about this whole thing in general...so here are my questions.

is it spelled chi, or ki?
is it pronounced like chee, or kee?
what's the reason to study this form of concentration?
Is the third eye thing to help you realize where your opponents are so you can better fight them in any situation?
There’s absolutely no way to expell energy from your body?
If so, what would you use it for?
Can you use chi to warm yourself up?
Can you use chi to help you in taking in physical pain a lot easier?
Could you feel the energy of spirits with your third eye? Or do you have to believe in spirits in the first place to feel them.

I’m deeply interested in being able to have fast reflexes. Does understanding the energy arts greatly influence being able to react faster?

I always thought there was someway you can psyche your mind into getting yourself to perform physically challenging feats. Like running across walls, getting a longer hangtime. Is this something more towards energy concentration, then overcoming the possibility mentally?

I tried some form of DBZ thing when I was younger. But I approached it more of a mental thing. Like I thought that if I trick my mind into thinking that I was forming some sort of energy in my hands, I would actually be able to see and feel it. This was generally for entertainment purposes, because I knew I wouldn’t be able to do any damage (since it’s not real).

Anyways the point of me bringing that up was that there would be a point where my hands would get very fuzzy and when I moved both my hands closer, to each other, the pressure between them would get noticeably stronger and it would be a bit more difficult for me to move my hands closer to each other. (unless I forced myself out of the concentration in the air between my hands)

Now does this have anything to do with chi? Or am I just going crazy?

That’s all for the questions right now. I’m not asking you to teach me how to do any of this. I just want to understand if it’s something I would like to pursue (find the right kind of instructor etc etc.) in order to reach certain goals of mine.

I think I can help to answer the bo question, I have a few of our bo kata on my site www.geocities.com/arthorses but they are for moderately advanced students who already know the techniques of working with bo.

IOW You need to learn to do this from your instructor before attempting!

For some of the answers about ki u should read my post on making a ki ball for the last time...

is it spelled chi, or ki?

Both, it is also spelled Qi.

is it pronounced like chee, or kee?

Both...

what's the reason to study this form of concentration?

To develop greater skill with the mind and body as a unified whole. This is just one reason, almost everyone has different reasons for training in internal arts or any martial art in general for that matter.

Is the third eye thing to help you realize where your opponents are so you can better fight them in any situation?

Possibly if it is related to body sensitivity and overall awareness. I usually use my regular eyes to asses my opponents strengths and weaknesses and how they are going to apply to me.

There’s absolutely no way to expell energy from your body?

Not so... When you generate movement that is expelling energy.

If so, what would you use it for?

I guess the question should be; how many ways can it be used? To this I do not have an answer. I make the utmost attempt to use the energy to generate a positive frequency within my body. This allows me to relax and live more freely.

Can you use chi to warm yourself up?

Sure - do some standing practice...

Can you use chi to help you in taking in physical pain a lot easier?

Possibly, but I would consider this to be more of a feat of the mind than something to do with Qi.

Could you feel the energy of spirits with your third eye? Or do you have to believe in spirits in the first place to feel them.

I'm not sure... I am more interested in the relevance of Qi within the context of esoteric and martial training.

I’m deeply interested in being able to have fast reflexes. Does understanding the energy arts greatly influence being able to react faster?

IMO i think it does. When working in an art such as Baguazhang, you are constantly strengthening the neurological structure of the body. As it becomes stronger through relaxation the body and mind can move more quickly and more freely because they have less tension to hinder them.

And as Reiki said - please find an instructor before getting to into energetic exercises. These are seriously underestimated. The benefits to your health can be tremendous, but only if you can attain propper guidance.

Chris

Fisherman has done a really good job of explaining the rest of the questions, I would add that u need to decide where u want to go with ki and then find a good instructor for that too.

The thing u tried with your hands sounds like you were feeling ki between your hands.

You *definintely* need a good instructor for the bo techniques! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Like most weapons it takes time and a lot of practice to become adept. The bo is one of my favourite weapons and I usually am the instructor that gets to teach it to the students because I have a real passion for it! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Thanks for the reply guys, I have a better understanding of chi

I have a couple more questions when reading through other posts.

what does IOW and IMA stand for?

Qigong and Reiki are both primarily used for healing?

can you relax your body to the point where you can slow down your heart rate?

like say you were deeply cut . can you relax yourself to the point where you won't lose much blood from it?

>what does IOW and IMA stand for?
I think IOW stands for in other words and IMA for internal martial arts, the english speaking members will undoubtably correct me if I'm wrong )

>Qigong and Reiki are both primarily used >for healing?
Yes, but qigong has been used (in addition to medical purposes) in religios and martial practice too

>can you relax your body to the point where >you can slow down your heart rate?
oh yes, not a problem.

>like say you were deeply cut . can you >relax yourself to the point where you won't >lose much blood from it?that's more reflexes that costrict blood vessels in order to restrict bloodloss, atleast for ordinary people (=us mere mortals)


[This message has been edited by nenipp (edited 09-01-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gadoo:
Thanks for the reply guys, I have a better understanding of chi

I have a couple more questions when reading through other posts.

what does IOW and IMA stand for?

Qigong and Reiki are both primarily used for healing?

can you relax your body to the point where you can slow down your heart rate?

like say you were deeply cut . can you relax yourself to the point where you won't lose much blood from it?[/QUOTE]


IOW = In Other Words [its an abbreviation]
IMA = Internal Martial Arts [ditto]

Reiki is only used for healing.

All my studies on qi gong indicate it is normally a healing art too based on correct breathing and the flow of ki, but as I am not a master in this you should ask Kempoman or LAF because they know a lot more than I do! I have only dabbled around the sides of qi gong.

yes I suppose so, I've never measured my heart rate but I know with using emotional healing I can do this sort of thing.

I haven't had any deep cuts lately. My sword is too blunt for this! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

I have noticed while treating others that using reiki will tend to slow blood flow and help clotting if applied as soon as possible. The only exception from this is severed fingers etc, you must *NOT* use reiki if someone has a severed finger othewise the doctors will not be able to save it. You can use reiki to help heal almost anything.

How are u doing with the bo techniques?

I will be putting up some pix shortly showing some of the moves in the first kata and I am writing down the 1st third of the 4th kata. It is a quite a long process as the kata is some 140 moves +++ [haven't counted but it is much longer than all the others put together]..

you're right about the kata reiki, I'm not that advanced in karate so I'm not sure on how some of the stances are performed. The pictures would be a tremedous help.

for dojos practicing qigong and reiki, they're simply titled with the word qigong and reiki? or I can only learn it by learning a karate style that uses these techniques.

You can find qigong practice in just about any IMA school. If you are new to internal martial arts and qigong it may be best to find out what is available to you in your area then ask for opinions on the school/instructor on a trusted forum. Kempoman could help out with this. The problem with qigong is there is a lot of garbage floating around, you need to weed through them. Not everyone teaching improper qigong is doing it intentionally, some are just ill informed. I personally don't like the idea of trying this sort of thing from books alone, an instructor is needed.

As far as reiki. I think it's rare that you will find someone teaching reiki in a dojo. They are out there but everything i've seen since i started looking into it is in the form of weekend seminars and small group lessons. Reiki isn't really "tied" to internal martial arts as much as qigong is. I could be way off base on reiki though.

At any rate good quality instruction is what you need. It doesn't matter if it's in a school or someone’s garage, as long as they are legit.

I think alot of Chi is mind over body. It seems to manifest itself in a certain way in the body causeing a feeling inside and that is whats called Chi. Or something like that. As for super reflexes! Chi wont do you any good. I recomend this. Either buy a painball mask and let your friends throw rocks at you and try to dodge them. Or buy a bite guard and let them take swings are your face. You will learn REALLY fast how to get your stuff where it needs to be after you take a fist to the nose 3 times.

I have done the softer version, where I have my brothers throw tenis balls at me, but I didn't feel it would really help me in fighting situations.

we do continuous fight in my dojo, so I have gotten hit in the face several times. which is why I'm so interested in dodging and defense...since my defense is weak.

I was really hoping chi could help me sense peoples energy and by that I would be able to see/feel the attacks coming and gracefully dodge them [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Hunter posted:
"I think alot of Chi is mind over body. It seems to manifest itself in a certain way in the body causeing a feeling inside and that is whats called Chi. Or something like that."

I disagree. It is not like that at all.
If anything, what you have described is feeling (ting jing).
Chi is not mind over body - chi is mind IN body, chi is everywhere. If anything mind IN body relates to neijia or internal skill NOT chi. Neijia works on the development of chi awareness.

"As for super reflexes! Chi wont do you any good."
How would you know? Do you train in an internal martial art?
There is a concept within the IMA call ting jing/listening skill. It requires that you be soft and relaxed in order to feel your opponents movement or intenetion.

As for your recommendation...
"Either buy a painball mask and let your friends throw rocks at you and try to dodge them. Or buy a bite guard and let them take swings are your face."

This is just silly. What makes you think that rocks react like people in fighting situations? Even taking punches to the head. After a while you may get good at dodging them, but what happens when they decide to punch you in the gut?

gadoo wrote:
"I was really hoping chi could help me sense peoples energy and by that I would be able to see/feel the attacks coming and gracefully dodge them"

Try getting into Tai Chi or some other form of internal MA where they work on push hands exercises. One of the objects of push hands is to increase the sensitivity of ones body in order to feel their center and take it or avoid it.

Chi is not mind over body - chi is mind IN body, chi is everywhere. If anything mind IN body relates to neijia or internal skill NOT chi. Neijia works on the development of chi awareness.

I should point out I use the qualifier Think.

How would you know? Do you train in an internal martial art?

Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it. I find it more usefull for weight lifting then reflexes. Reflexes seem to have a solid root in the subconsious. I recomend studieing body language also. Strangly enough listen to people lieing, and watch them it will help build up the subconsiousesnous (sp) ability to disurn the motives of someone else.

There is a concept within the IMA call ting jing/listening skill. It requires that you be soft and relaxed in order to feel your opponents movement or intenetion.

I agree completely you need to react without thought. Same as above, perhaps the subconsious ties closely in with Chi.


This is just silly. What makes you think that rocks react like people in fighting situations? Even taking punches to the head. After a while you may get good at dodging them, but what happens when they decide to punch you in the gut?

Same as above, build up your natural reactions to something coming at you. I think of is as step one in a process to build reflexes. As for getting hit in the gut. I duno? Dodge it or take it. Situps are good if your slow on you feet.

Im not flaming or anything, just giving my side of things. The rocks are getting hit are more of a trile by fire. They build up ones resistance to pain making them more relaxed when they do get in a fight. A fighter more relaxed is more able to sense either chi, or the subdle intracacys of someones body movement, perhaps both.

Note that it is not my intetion to 'flame' anyone here, I just like some foundation to peoples claims of knowledge.

I think that if you are giving people advice on a subject such as energy arts then you should at least let people know what it is that you do. Some of the exercises and techniques involved are potentially dangerous if practiced wrong. This is why I ask "what IMA do you study"?
When your reply is..."Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it."
Who cares about a t-shirt? Who cares about DBZ? This is a cartoon. Most of the knowlegable folks here are concerned with reality, not 2 dimensional fiction.

"Reflexes seem to have a solid root in the subconsious. I recomend studying body language also. Strangely enough listen to people lying, and watch them it will help build up the subconsiousesnous (sp) ability to disurn the motives of someone else."

I agree that reflexes can be hightened using exercises. As well as reading body language. My point is that study is only one part of the whole. What about application?

"perhaps the subconsious ties closely in with Chi."

Perhaps, but if we dont know what method you are using to come to this conclusion, how will we understand better?
I think that chi is linked to the subconscious, but that is not all it is linked to. Chi is linked to everything, and chi is linked to nothing.

I still FULLY disagree with the rock throwing idea. If someone is far enough away that they are going to be throwing rocks at me, then they are far enough away for me to run. I think that there are plenty of well tested methods out there that are a lot better than throwing rocks.
Within these methods you gain vitality, sensitivity, flexiblity you name it. What do you gain from a rock?
You said it's a trial by fire kind of thing? Well, what would you call sparring?

First off let me say that i have never studied any IMA with an instructor. However, through academic study (book-lernin) i feel that i have a fair understanding of chi (internal/universal energy.) Gadoo, i would say that most of your questions have some basis, except perhaps the matrix/dbz special effects. As far as the energy ball is concerned i have had similar experiences. it is a fairly common exercise in energy manipulation and concentration. My first experience was in a drama class.

Again, i have never had the opportunity for qualified instruction, but IMO (in my opinion) tai chi and qi gong would be very effective for acquiring faster reflexes and increased sensitivity to the energy of others.

As a side note, the opportunity for study has finally come upon me. i have just begun studying aikido and shinkendo, and may be able to study tai chi soon. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Fisherman, that is a flame. Read carefully and understand more. No one likes a troll. Also follow your own advice when if comes to proving your authority on the engery arts. This is a discussion forum after all. You should reread my DBZ reference it is an OBVIOUSE jest.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hunter:
Fisherman, that is a flame. Read carefully and understand more. No one likes a troll. Also follow your own advice when if comes to proving your authority on the engery arts. This is a discussion forum after all. You should reread my DBZ reference it is an OBVIOUSE jest. [/QUOTE]

I have read your posts and you are unclear.

[QUOTE]Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it.[/QUOTE]

This sentence makes no sense what so ever. What does your favorite t-shirt have to do with your IMA training?

Fisherman has more than established him self here. You are new and have not. His requests for info on your training is well in his right and if he hadn't asked someone else would have. Fisherman is far form being a troll and you should be careful of flaming one of the few valued members of the forum that actually has something of value to contribute.


Everyone is welcome here provided they are not offering up advise without any knowledge of the subject at hand. If you are going to give such advise expect someone to enquire about your training.

Fair enough, I have adressed the issue of my training in another thread. Perhaps what I said was unclear. It was ment as a subdle joke. It should read "Yes I do have some training in IMA, mostly self taught. I do not like to talk about it because ect..." Im not out there trying to make bogus claims of super powers or making chi blasts and that was my way of poking fun at the people who do. Anyway lighten up befor I throw a Genki Dama at you.

I like this gadoo guy. It is refreshing to see someone asking some real fundamental questions; and I feel sorry for gadoo who has to hear all these conflicting "answers"
so early on.

No wonder there appears to be a lot of garbage floating. But one advise that must be given to gadoo is that all these take years and years to master and produce results, assuming you manage to find a good instructor right now (the real difficult part) He / she may not be able to do all those things, but he / she must at least teach substance. Do not expect to toy with IMA and be invincible after a couple "semesters" or attend some weekend seminar and come away "enlightened" and start dogding 200 mph rocks, which of course is not the serious purpose for learning IMA. It is the years of practice that matters, not the learning.

Mind over body? Mind in body? Both are right! The practice of chi kung (initially) is to establish a direct and conscious connection between the mind and the body for which the former, the unconscious / subconscious part of it, is responsible for the functioning of the internal organs of the latter. Later, much later, the mind "goes" into the body (initially) i.e to be able to consciously tap into the day-to-day workings of the body; and then at a more advance level to actually cause some desired effect in the body, i.e. mind-over-body (the case of yogis being able to slow thier heart beats to almost or at zero) My own experience is that when I circulate my chi to a specific organ, I feel a strong but comfortable / soothing sensation of warmth emanating from that organ --- especially the liver.

Whatever it is, good luck to gadoo, he reminds me very much like myself and a lot of others I imagine when I first started. One thing is for sure; it is difficult to know where this all ends; how do you talk about the mind thinking about itself?

thanks for your replies everyone. I will take tai chi soon and tell you guys how it's going and stuff.

I'm searching for ways to use chi and ki. Anyway possible would be great. Can someone teach me through email (Seventeen17@insightbb.com), MSN messenger (Seventeen17@insightbb.com) or AIM (Foun1oofyouth). Anyway I can learn healing techniques, fighting techniques, everyday use for such energy would truthfully help me out a lot. I have this weird strive for the power to protect people. I avoid getting close to many people because if I do, they might get hurt...and I would be responsible. I have tons of friends, but I never really let myself get attached...and occasionally I'll start hanging out with new people. But I've let myself get attached to this girl, and now she's having problems with life and I want to be able to protect her. She's been hurt in the past and I want to open this energy to her so that she can heal, spiritually and physically. Anyone who will teach me will be my saviour. I have gone to sites about this, but its either too much reading for nothing or I have to pay. and my resources are limited.

AIM: Foun1oofyouth
MSN: Seventeen17@insightbb.com />Email: Seventeen17@insightbb.com