exploding ki

I want to know if it's real or not. I've heard lots about it. It sounds interesting. It's might come in handy. But I would have to learn how to increase my ki. Hopefully it is real. Can you give me any information like books,websites,info.

DOES ANYONE ANYTHING.

I would begin by looking into Chen style Tai Chi or JKD. Where do you think Bruce got his 1" punch from? Look into topics concerning fa jing; chinese for explosive internal energy.
It is real, however I wouldn't really consider it exploding; more like a sudden violent expansion of body tissues. If you get hit with it, it does feel like you are going to explode!
Yes you would have to learn how to increase you chi, but thats part of the price you have to pay if you want to learn how to issue power.
Hope this helps.
Good luck

As always, the explanation is as clear as mud
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

Yeah
Trying to explain internal power is like trying to explain Quantum Physics to a 3 year old. Too much to type.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisherman:
Yeah
Trying to explain internal power is like trying to explain Quantum Physics to a 3 year old. Too much to type.[/QUOTE]

Love the insult [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Unfortunately, people who know about quantum physics can usually explain it quite well, whereas people who say they know all about chi cannot explain it and when questioned come up with quotes like yours.

Simply hiding behind statements like yours does no credit to the chi pushers who are still unable to prove it's existence.

JohnL

JohnL
What I said was not meant to be taken as an insult; only to bring up the point that the depth of internal arts is hard to explain in words.
Quantum physics are NOT internal martial arts, thus they can be verbally explained. Chi is esotericaly overblown, however this doesn't mean that it does not exist. Talk about insults, would you tell someone that is devoutly religious that their god doesn't exist? Prove to me that god exists? Prove that love exists?
If you need proof that chi exists, I encourage you to seek out a reputed Xing Yi or Bagua Zhang teacher in your area. Tell them that you don't believe in chi and that you would like to challenge them on that premise.
Once again my post was not meant to insult.
I hope you can find the proof that you are looking for.
Regards

Maybe he means fa jing. Not chi. Fa jing means explosive power and is very easy to explain.

It is the ability to strike with relaxed-whole-body power. Local musclulature is not involved, instead the body is relaxed and aligned to allow the power (physical) to follow a specifc path along the tendons/muscles/ligaments.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
Maybe he means fa jing. Not chi. Fa jing means explosive power and is very easy to explain.

It is the ability to strike with relaxed-whole-body power. Local musclulature is not involved, instead the body is relaxed and aligned to allow the power (physical) to follow a specifc path along the tendons/muscles/ligaments.

[/QUOTE]

Great!
I understand everything you said, accept it and agree.

JohnL

Hi Fisherman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisherman:
JohnL
What I said was not meant to be taken as an insult; only to bring up the point that the depth of internal arts is hard to explain in words.
Quantum physics are NOT internal martial arts, thus they can be verbally explained. Chi is esotericaly overblown, however this doesn't mean that it does not exist. Talk about insults, would you tell someone that is devoutly religious that their god doesn't exist? Prove to me that god exists? Prove that love exists?
If you need proof that chi exists, I encourage you to seek out a reputed Xing Yi or Bagua Zhang teacher in your area. Tell them that you don't believe in chi and that you would like to challenge them on that premise.
Once again my post was not meant to insult.
I hope you can find the proof that you are looking for.
Regards

[/QUOTE]

The depth of internal arts aren't hard to explain, it's just that you can't.
Keep religion out of any any discussion, it won't help you.

I have had various encounters with Chi pushers both in person and on this forum.
None as yet have convinced me that chi exists in any manner other than purely physical properties.

For your explanation of chi to date, I award you full membership of the FCP club.. (Failed Chi Pushers)
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

Ki
is easy to explain
Your energy, your life force, your spirit, your soul,thats ki
its not as complicated as one might think its your life force without it you would die, as why dead people/animals are like a wet rag. As i said your ki is your soul it cant get any stronger or weaker you just need to learn how to use it. You need to meditate deeply and feel the energy in your body, you need to kihup when performing a technique, you need to control yur breath, 1-2-3-4 inhale, 1-2-3-4 exhale. Also once you can feel your bodys energy through mediation you can feel it anytime you wish your mind wont forget, heres a trick a monk once taught me when you feel your energy imagine it as veing a certain color i use blue. When you inhale bring all your energy(vision a color) into a ball in the pit of your stomach around your belly button and bladder area, as you exhale let it flow through your body. When you perform a technique instead of leeting the energy flow through your body, concentarte on getting it from the enerhy ball in your stomach to your fist, kihup on impact and envision the blue energy shooting out of your fist at that moment.

Yes, Fajing is what I am talking about. That is what I put in my original post. It is not a hard topic to find books about.
As for the personal attacks; I could give less of a sh!t. I am not here to prove anything to anyone.

Cogratulations Tkdstreetfighter88:

Your "simple" explanation of ki did nothing but further confuse the issue and give weight to the argument that chi does not exist.

Welcome to the FCP club.
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

Nice to see you are back on form again John!

It's good when we all agree to differ...

How's that shoulder doing?

Budo [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I have nothign more to post on this subject at the moment, we all know where I stand on it (being a practitioner of Chen style Tai Chi, Pa Gua Chang, and Chi Kung).

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT TKDSTREETFIGTER. I WANT TO KNOWL.

Hey Janken.

Your opponent explodes!!!

Don't you know anything [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

Message for reiki, about three months ago you recomended that I try Reiki to find out about Ki, I was at that time a sceptic, so I am now in the middle of reiki one, 21 days of self healing exercises, will let you know how I get on, thanks for pointing me in this direction, the stuff is very interesting, however I still think that Ki in the sense that martial artists promote it is fantasy, the only way to improve is to train and practice.

Streetfighter you done before.And if you haven't try it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Geoff:
Message for reiki, about three months ago you recomended that I try Reiki to find out about Ki, I was at that time a sceptic, so I am now in the middle of reiki one, 21 days of self healing exercises, will let you know how I get on, thanks for pointing me in this direction, the stuff is very interesting, however I still think that Ki in the sense that martial artists promote it is fantasy, the only way to improve is to train and practice.[/QUOTE]

That's great news to hear you are trying it Geoff! Its wonderful to have more people becoming practioners. In my view there can never be enough reiki in the world.

Having become Reiki has helped me [and my family] with many things and I find now I am using it all the time...You will probably find this too!

Did your RM warn you that you will now be a magnet for all that need help? They will seek you out.... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

A note foor JohnL on chi. Now, I am not a chi woo-woo by any means but there are some studies that are being done with someting called infrasound that could be the mechanism.


Here is some info from this website http://www.ecm323.co.uk/Essay%207.htm


[QUOTE]The ventilator was later modified, moving the frequency into the audible range, and the problems ceased. The exercise taught Gavreau two valuable lessons: 1. That infrasound had a potentially disruptive effect on the human body, and 2, that it was directional and could be focussed. Further experimentation led him to manufacture devices which were constructed with these precise capabilities. One such device, a 24m organ pipe, was capable of generating a frequency of 7Hz, which was felt, rather than heard. Interestingly, infrasound had particularly volatile effects on humans when rated at 7Hz, as this corresponds precisely to the frequency of alpha waves in the brain. This frequency, when transposed to stroboscopic light can induce epileptic fits, or seizures, and is commonly known as the "Flicker Effect". The lethal effects of infrasound were amply demonstrated, when Gavreau's colleague, R. Levavasseur, constructed a scaled up version of a police whistle. The 6ft long device, known as the Levavasseur "Whistle", was powered by compressed air at a rate of more than~20 litres per second. The unfortunate assistants who were in the vicinity of the device when it was first operated were bombarded by massive infrasound frequencies, which were reputed to have caused internal hemorrhaging to both men, who later died in hospital, and Levavasseur became a lifelong invalid.[/QUOTE]

Thoughts?

the club where i train, is linked to a club that teaches fa jing chuan, i'd love to go there, but it has the same times as the club im going to currently.
copy and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.warriorarts.co.uk/

Step 1: Clear your mind of all un-needed thoughts.
Step 2: Focus all your current ki to be able to use.
Step 3: Feel the Ki surrounding you in the plants, earth, wind, water, fire.
Step 4: Focus on that Ki.
Step 5: Still focusing let your body and soul gather the energy. Keep it in your mind.
Step 6: Keep muscles relaxed and stay focused.
Step 7: Please send $100 to.................just kidding.
Step 8: Let the ki flow into you body and burn to your essence, your soul, your being.
Step 9: Slowly bring yourself down from this so as not to lose the gathered ki.
Step 10: Relax for the remander of the day, better if you do this technique at night time.
Step 11: Repeat Every other Week so as not to destroy yourself and end up a Potatoe

JohnL, I have noticed that you don't beleive in chi at all. (I know that this probably wont change your mind about it, but let me give it a shot.)

OK, if chi didnt exist, then why can some people brake bricks and others can't. It can't be pure strength because if it was then body builders would have no problem at all braking bricks and boards and all that stuff but they do because I have seen a body builder try to break a baseball bat in half and he could barely do it, but a martial artist easily broke the same kind of bat in one simple kick. I have also seen a martial arts "master" (which is a term I don't like to use,) on "Xtreme Martial Arts" who didn't have that much muscle, break 15 blocks of concrete with his elbow. How could he possibly have done that without some kind of energy helping him? Wouldn't his elbow break if he wasn't using chi?

Think about it before you come up with a way to try to prove me wrong.

Hi Bruce Lee:
As I said in another thread, I haven't said I don't believe in chi, just that no-one has proved to me it's existence. If you're going to quote me, please do so correctly.

Body-builders not breaking things. Easy. They' not trained to. Breaking involves physical technique and a belief that you're going to succeed.
I have no doubt that I could train a bodybuilder to go through bricks in a month, if not quicker.

As for using the xtreme martial arts on tv as a justification for anything is pathetic. Breaking a sequence of concrete blocks is strength and technique. No exhibition of chi/ki there.

For you recent post, I award you provisional menbership of the FCP club. You'll have to do better than that if you want to go for full membership.

JohnL

does any one know how to project ki cause i need help see i can use ki like crazy
but only some times it is launched so does any one know how?
(im new here on this forum)

does any one know how to project ki cause i need help see i can use ki like crazy
but only some times it is launched so does any one know how?
(im new here on this forum)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tkdstreetfighter88:
Ki
is easy to explain
Your energy, your life force, your spirit, your soul,thats ki
its not as complicated as one might think its your life force without it you would die, as why dead people/animals are like a wet rag. As i said your ki is your soul it cant get any stronger or weaker you just need to learn how to use it. You need to meditate deeply and feel the energy in your body, you need to kihup when performing a technique, you need to control yur breath, 1-2-3-4 inhale, 1-2-3-4 exhale. Also once you can feel your bodys energy through mediation you can feel it anytime you wish your mind wont forget, heres a trick a monk once taught me when you feel your energy imagine it as veing a certain color i use blue. When you inhale bring all your energy(vision a color) into a ball in the pit of your stomach around your belly button and bladder area, as you exhale let it flow through your body. When you perform a technique instead of leeting the energy flow through your body, concentarte on getting it from the enerhy ball in your stomach to your fist, kihup on impact and envision the blue energy shooting out of your fist at that moment.[/QUOTE]

these "kihup" thingies do help me controll energy. I am no master of any sort, but i am very interested in meditation & chi(ki,qi)

i imagined the color flowing to my legs, and i felt a slight tingleing sensation. I was sceptical, and thought my legs were "falling asleep" or were not getting blood. but i then realised that this was not the cause..
I am not sure how to use this, but hey whatever it is, it is affecting me.

as for JohnL, you are a sceptic, and i respect your choice, but i am merely requesting that you try to open your mind and try this. just try to feel energy.
Scientists dont do experiments biased. they try to find an answer, even if they dont like it. You may not want to believe that ki exists, but try an unbiased experiment and prove to yourself whether it exists or not.

My GOD!! I won't EVEN get started with THIS forum, lol!


Whew!

-John

You may not want to believe that ki exists, but try an unbiased experiment and prove to yourself whether it exists or not.

I suggested an experiment in an earlier post. Didn't get any takers though.

JohnL

Ok John, I will give you proof of chi if you like.

However you will have to do the excersize just as I describe and not deviate from the instructions at all as I will be working at the same time to help you.

If you agree to try then great if not then perhaps you should refrain from the chi jokes, if after you are still not convinced then please continue.

Let's go.

JohnL

Ok, a bit of back ground first, do you live near a park, or any open spaces with trees, nature etc? Secondly, I live in China, GMT +8 hours, what time zone are you in, I guess you are somewhere in the states?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shi Miao Zun:
Ok, a bit of back ground first, do you live near a park, or any open spaces with trees, nature etc? Secondly, I live in China, GMT +8 hours, what time zone are you in, I guess you are somewhere in the states?[/QUOTE]

Yes I have a park nearby. Yes there are trees there. I live in New York.

JohnL

Hi John,

Thanks for the links you posted on the other forum for me, turns out Im alive, who knew?!

Lets start with the truth its always easier like that. I am not going to try to explain chi to you or anything like that or get you to go and get someone to wave their arms round you or point their fingers at you and transmit some invisible power to you.

The reason that you dont beleive that there is chi is because you havent experienced it, so why should you and noone has given you any reson, scientific or other that it exists. You cant feel it, see it, touch it, etc but there is a good reason for this, you havent trained to. (I say seeing as I met a guy who said he could see it, personally I didnt beleive him, but I didnt really care either way if he did or not.)

So what I propose is a short chi gung course for you if you are up for it, it should be in the morning, very early, sorry, I used to get up at 4:30 in Shaolin to get into the forest by 5am. Not something that i do now but it is easiest to feel at that time for a number of reasons, you need, as a beginer, total peace and quiet without anyone to disturb your concentration, secondly there is more chi about in the early morning, (I dont want to get into this point about where it is and why its about in the morning or anything like that, we could get into it later if you like though). Thirdly there is less polution around, youre going to need your lungs for this one, just in case you werent going to take them with you.

So what do you think? I would suggest a minimum of 5 days to get any results but ideally two weeks would be good. You dont have to be up at 4:30 but ideally it should be just before the sun is rising, just getting light, or I could have just said dawn.

I realise that this is not the proof that you wanted, however chi is something that cannot be explained like trying to explain to a blind man what colour is, you either feel it or you dont. There is a reason that thousands of people practice energy arts, they feel it, you dont, but its easy to learn, if you want to.

If you dont want to, I will understand, as I am not as I said, offering you proof, Im asking you to experience it for yourself, chi gung is strictly DIY if you really want to feel it.


Miao Zun

Shi Miao Zun:

Don't have a problem with anything you've said.

Contact me at the end of March. In NY (I actually live over the river in NJ) we're under about 1 foot of snow with more anticipated later this week. The temperature is below freezing.

I have no problem discovering chi, I just don't want to freeze my nads off discovering it.

JohnL

Hi John,

I thought that might be the case, and although you might enhance your chi you might die of exposure before you can thank me and we wouldnt want that.

Spring time it is then. Im might even be in the big apple in April, perhaps setting up a Shaolin school but not sure yet as we're still waiting for sponsors. So until then keep up the vehement rejection of chi, (be strong)!!!

fellows,i am not skeptic in the sense that i gotta see to believe,as far as i know
no one has ever actually seen an atom
yet we have the atomic bomb,but i can see the results of atoms.I have yet to see any results of this ki,not in any sense that i could not explain in a more 5 senses sorta way.and i know minds can be over active.
i also know if one thinks over and over again my legs feel warm,then their legs will feel warm to them anyway.i put ki right up there with astral projection,channeling,and things as such,but i do feel i am open minded to some degree, not so open minded my brain falls out.Having said that if you guys can tell me a specific thing i can do to expierence ki, besides hopping up at 4 or 5 am and heading out to the woods i will honestly try it,but be warned,don't recomend something lame like placing my hand a quarter of inch from my face,and say did u feel warm ki [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] if you guys have me try something and it works i will be honest with you,this is not a challenge this is a honestly curious guy.

[This message has been edited by badmamajama (edited 04-10-2004).]

I think that the FCP club should be disbanded, since no-one ACTUALLY bothers to turn up. JohnL, I read many of your posts (only becasue I have to when I read about ki) and to be honest I think you're a *****. A cocky, closed minded *****. If I may say that.
I don not 'push ki', but I am interested in the healing capabilities. I am well aware that it may be placebo, but if it is, then why stop if it works?

Edited for Language



[This message has been edited by Kempoman (edited 05-13-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisherman:
Yeah
Trying to explain internal power is like trying to explain Quantum Physics to a 3 year old. Too much to type.[/QUOTE]
Actually they say a 3 year old can understand Quantum physics better than most adults because they lack all our preconceptions on how things are supposed to work. They see it as a big imagination game.

[This message has been edited by WADO (edited 05-12-2004).]

hey Kempo, can I mod too? I have too much time on my hands. And you missed out the first "expletive" on my post.

yoyo!

If a blind man were to ask you what proof can you provide that a rainbow exists how would YOU do it? Remeber that a closed mind is an empty mind.

He's blind, not stupid. Explaining a rainbow is a far cry from exploding chi. Rainbows have been proven to exist and have been replicated over and over, there is no mystery to them. Exploding ki, ki blasts and things of that nature haven't. It doesn't mean 100% they aren't possible. It does mean all the people that have claimed to be able to do it can't prove it. Maybe the yellow bamboo guys will take the mil.

Why does a skeptic have to be closed minded? Because we require proof? Sounds like we're not the ones being closed minded.

I never said that it could be done, actually (though it can be). Just keeping an open mind to all possibilities is more practical way of going about it. And to be technical rainbows don't really exist, not physically at least.

If it's proof you seek than perhaps you should pay more attention in science. Energy (and ki is energy) is defined as the amount of force you exert to accomplish a task. Since you use up a certain amount of energy for all things in life (even while you sleep), then everyone already does use it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WADO:

Actually they say a 3 year old can understand Quantum physics better than most adults because they lack all our preconceptions on how things are supposed to work. They see it as a big imagination game.

[This message has been edited by WADO (edited 05-12-2004).][/QUOTE]

Yes well 'they' say all sorts of bollocks don't they? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Quantum field theory is flawed - the whole thing falls apart in curved space time.

Or rather there IS something going on, but....... thats about as much as anyone can figure out yet.....

Alec

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mudcat:
I never said that it could be done, actually (though it can be).[/QUOTE]

Then please present your evidence to support such a claim.

[QUOTE] Just keeping an open mind to all possibilities is more practical way of going about it.[/QUOTE]

Skeptics keep an open mind about everything. I am open to the possiblity that pigs can fly, there is just no evidence to support such a claim.

[QUOTE]If it's proof you seek than perhaps you should pay more attention in science.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the 'Scientific Method'.

[QUOTE]Energy (and ki is energy)...[/QUOTE]

Please provide evidence to support this claim.


[QUOTE]...is defined as the amount of force you exert to accomplish a task.[/QUOTE]

Main Entry: en·er·gy
Pronunciation: 'e-n&r-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: Late Latin energia, from Greek energeia activity, from energos active, from en in + ergon work -- more at WORK
1 a : dynamic quality <narrative energy> b : the capacity of acting or being active <intellectual energy>
2 : vigorous exertion of power : EFFORT <investing time and energy>
3 : the capacity for doing work
4 : usable power (as heat or electricity); also : the resources for producing such power

I think that you mean 'Energy' is the capacity to do work.

[QUOTE]Since you use up a certain amount of energy for all things in life (even while you sleep), then everyone already does use it.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that anyone here is trying to say that the mysteious chi does not exist, what is being said is has not been proven that anyone can manifest this energy outside of their body.

Scott

I prefer the interpretations of Chi given by those like Da Liu and Dr. Yang, Jing-Ming. Chi is just energy. Heat is a type of Chi, magnetism is a type of Chi, electricity is a type of Chi, etc. So, when you punch someone, the kinetic energy passing into their body is just another type of Chi.

Sure, it takes all the mystery out of it, but to this point the only thing that still doesn't completely make sense is Lin Kong Jing.

[QUOTE]Sure, it takes all the mystery out of it, but to this point the only thing that still doesn't completely make sense is Lin Kong Jing.[/QUOTE]

Ling Kong Jing is just that an 'Empty Force'. Noone has been able to do it (to anyone other than duped students) and there is no evidence to suggest that it is even remotely possible.

Scott



[This message has been edited by Kempoman (edited 05-21-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yoseikan Student:
Yes well 'they' say all sorts of bollocks don't they? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Quantum field theory is flawed - the whole thing falls apart in curved space time.

Or rather there IS something going on, but....... thats about as much as anyone can figure out yet.....

Alec

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]

Yeah and that whole multiverse thing seems tough to. The probelm is nobody has really been able to reconcile Quantum physics and relativity, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

you guys realize that this has become a quest to convince these guys that chi exists?
please, theyre just hopeless.give it up.your wasting all your energy.(pardon the pun)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by horselover67:
you guys realize that this has become a quest to convince these guys that chi exists?
please, theyre just hopeless.give it up.your wasting all your energy.(pardon the pun)[/QUOTE]


The debate isn't on the existance of chi so much as it is the uses of chi.

It's not that it's real or can be done, it's just that people want to believe it's true. An adult Santa Claus if you will. I believe people can meditate and become more focused or 'enlightened' but this transfer of Ki and the like is just a bunch of BS that no one seems to be able to prove since it's all a bunch of made up crap that people can't let go of because they want to believe it. GIVE US PROOF