Why do you meditate?

Posted by: Anonymous

Why do you meditate? - 02/06/05 02:18 PM

I am wondering about different people's reasons for meditating. Many comments on this forum suggest a goal-oriented meditation practice, which is antithetical to some traditions, especially Buddhist traditions like Chan/Zen.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/06/05 03:48 PM

I meditate for different reasons and I do different meditations accordingly. I meditate most commonly to relax and for mental recharging kind of like rebooting the computer. I also meditate as part of my spiritual and prayer life. Lastly, I meditate to improve my martial arts. Then also I meditate with and without qigong of some kind, depending on my goals.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/13/05 10:02 AM

meditation has as its goal the same thing as martial arts (in the classical Japanese sense). The frame of mind during meditation is a direct analogue of the frame of mind just before a strike; it is intense concentration combined with a sense of seeing oneself from an external vantage point, an objective intensity which calma and excites at the same time, in different ways.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/13/05 12:05 PM

From my reading of classical & contemporary sources, goal-oriented meditation is ultimately dualistic and therefor counterproductive. And in a recent issue of a Buddhist magazine, Jet Li (who is a practicing Buddhist) is quoted as saying (in effect) that the spiritual dimensions of martial arts are just a lot of hype, and that enlightenment through martial arts discipline is not possible. Or at leastthat there is no clear recosrd of anyone having attained enlightenment in this way.

Comment?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/15/05 05:02 PM

Yes I believe it in one sense. I wouldn't pursue martial arts if my objective was enlightenment. For that, I went to religious seminary and alas, I am still looking. However, why couldn't a person achieve enlightenment (or lighterment) from martial arts as one might from other intensive activities such as religion, classical music, volunteer work, working hard to recover from an accident, child rearing, psychotherapy etc.?
Posted by: nenipp

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/17/05 09:27 AM

The connection works the other way I suspect, once the person has descovered the true nature of reality and thus taken control over Ego and fear of death, he/she is infinitely more free to respond adequatlely in any situation, especially a threatening one.

(just my two cents)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/17/05 11:06 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nenipp:
...once the person has descovered the true nature of reality and thus taken control over Ego and fear of death, he/she is infinitely more free to respond adequatlely in any situation, especially a threatening one.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would agree with that. Alan Watts said that governments hate mystics because the mystic is no longer afraid of dying, and therefor cannot be intimidated by the threat of force. It follows then that ANY threat of force loses its power in the face of spiritual realization. The problem for the martial artist, however, is that if he no longer fears a physical threat, then why address that threat with force?
Posted by: nenipp

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/17/05 03:13 PM

He wouldn't take an academic point of view on the subject and ponder why this or why that, his reaction would be spontaneous, immediate and without ________ (sorry I can't find the word I'm looking for even in my native language)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/17/05 04:44 PM

just to clarify one thing:

meditation must be goal-oriented in at least one sense if anyone is to have a reason (motive) to take it up. To deny ANY goal to its study is just incorrect. True enough, it's a different sort of goal than mamy are used to, but let's at least be clear from the outset...
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/17/05 11:57 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobmax:
just to clarify one thing:

meditation must be goal-oriented in at least one sense if anyone is to have a reason (motive) to take it up. To deny ANY goal to its study is just incorrect. True enough, it's a different sort of goal than mamy are used to, but let's at least be clear from the outset...
[/QUOTE]

OK, then what is the goal? I should warn you, I regard that question as a kind of koan--answering it might "break your brain."
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 01:31 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kravist:
And in a recent issue of a Buddhist magazine, Jet Li (who is a practicing Buddhist) is quoted as saying (in effect) that the spiritual dimensions of martial arts are just a lot of hype, and that enlightenment through martial arts discipline is not possible. Or at leastthat there is no clear recosrd of anyone having attained enlightenment in this way.

Comment?
[/QUOTE]

Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido is said to have achieved enlightenment after being challenged by a skilled swordsman which he managed to avoid every cut and thrust without the use of any weapon and defeated the swordsman successfully. He was walking through a garden and that is when he was supposed to have become enlightened.

I only read this in a couple of books so we can't take this as fact but as possibility.

I meditate mainly to de-stress myself in order to be able to deal with day-to-day situations. I also meditate to cultivate metta bhavna towards people who I sometimes struggle to tolerate when they do something hurtful or foolish.

I am taking up zazen meditation as I believe it will help my training in aikido. Furthermore I think that if ever I were to be confronted with an imminent attack I am concerned I might just panic and forget all what I have learned in my training. I believe it will help me focus, improve my concentration and help me to remain calm yet alert in the face of danger. Either way these are my goals.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]Chanters


[This message has been edited by Chanters (edited 02-18-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 06:25 AM

I love the story about Ueshiba, but I think that has to fall into the category of mythology rather than evidence. As part of the founding myth of Aikido, it tells us not about Aikido but about how practitioners see themselves. Its factual basis is not the important part. (My brother is a big Aikido guy, but he is still too much of a "True Believer" to see this point yet.)

As for zazen, I used to sit with a group that was once joined by a guy who wanted to learn about Zen because he believed--I'm not making this up--it would improve his golf game. That was several years ago. I have not sat regularly with those folks for some time now, but I understand he gave up golf completely and took precepts. This is because he discovered that there was no point in wanting to improve his putting, that doing zazen to change something--anything--is pointless. This is in the spirit of the Zen master (I forget who) who said, "For those who have no preferences, the Great Way is not diffcult."

The trick--dare I say "goal"-- of Zen is to lose your preferences. Once you do that, your Akido improves immeasurably. So does your golf game. The thng is, you don't care anymore.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 07:02 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kravist:
I love the story about Ueshiba, but I think that has to fall into the category of mythology rather than evidence. As part of the founding myth of Aikido, it tells us not about Aikido but about how practitioners see themselves. Its factual basis is not the important part. (My brother is a big Aikido guy, but he is still too much of a "True Believer" to see this point yet.)

As for zazen, I used to sit with a group that was once joined by a guy who wanted to learn about Zen because he believed--I'm not making this up--it would improve his golf game. That was several years ago. I have not sat regularly with those folks for some time now, but I understand he gave up golf completely and took precepts. This is because he discovered that there was no point in wanting to improve his putting, that doing zazen to change something--anything--is pointless. This is in the spirit of the Zen master (I forget who) who said, "For those who have no preferences, the Great Way is not diffcult."

The trick--dare I say "goal"-- of Zen is to lose your preferences. Once you do that, your Akido improves immeasurably. So does your golf game. The thng is, you don't care anymore.
[/QUOTE]


Kravist,
Are you bisexual?
oldman
Posted by: nenipp

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 07:36 AM

Oldman is funny )

(Edited to disable smilies)



[This message has been edited by nenipp (edited 02-18-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 10:54 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldman:

Kravist,
Are you bisexual?
oldman
[/QUOTE]

LOL!

That would qualify as a preference.

ROTFL

I think your BS detector is set too high
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/18/05 11:17 AM

Indeed. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

oldman
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/21/05 01:28 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kravist:
I love the story about Ueshiba, but I think that has to fall into the category of mythology rather than evidence.
[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with that!

Your post was interesting to me and from what I have read about Zen and Zazen, I think I was not quite looking at it the right way. I'm still going to attend a session as I believe it will be of benefit to me whether in training or life in general, i'll take it as it comes!

Thanks Kravist!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]Chanters
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why do you meditate? - 02/21/05 06:40 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chanters:
Your post was interesting to me and from what I have read about Zen and Zazen, I think I was not quite looking at it the right way. I'm still going to attend a session as I believe it will be of benefit to me whether in training or life in general, i'll take it as it comes!

[/QUOTE]

"I'll take it as it comes..." perfect. That is the correct way. When you think of it, is there any other way? Imagine all the pain people could avoid by understanding this one simple thing.

There is a Korean Zen Koan (Koreans would say "Kong-an") called "The Realm of 'Like-This'." A Koan is a Zen riddle, the most famous of which is, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" This one is about taking things as they come:

Spring comes; grass grows by itself.
The blue mountain does not move.
White clouds float back & forth.

The late Zen Master Seung Sahn would recite this to a student and then say, "What does this mean? Tell me! Tell me! But if you say a single word I will hit you thirty times. Open mouth, already a mistake."

Ki-Da,

Kravist