zazen

true zazen is to put this passage by zen master huang-po into practice "the substance of the absolute is inwardly like wood or stone,in that it is motionless and outwardly like the void,in that it is without bounds or obstructions."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
true zazen is to put this passage by zen master huang-po into practice "the substance of the absolute is inwardly like wood or stone,in that it is motionless and outwardly like the void,in that it is without bounds or obstructions."[/QUOTE]

These are metaphor within the context of a culture, and does not represent true zazen. If he had lived in your own culture then the concept would have made more sense and you would not be harping about passages out of cultural context, true Zazen is true zazen in any cultures despite different cultural metaphor uses or concepts.

pete you are right they are metaphors but not concepts. they are exact instructions that lead within where true zazen lies.truth was the same in huang-po day as it is today how can there be any difference.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete you are right they are metaphors but not concepts. they are exact instructions that lead within where true zazen lies.truth was the same in huang-po day as it is today how can there be any difference.[/QUOTE]

Instructions are tools but concept are the tools that leads to instruction, concept without method is just a concept. The difference is the method and the truth is for all not just huang-po days, existed before hunag-po, information and methods were only available to people who could read. Za-zen is no mystery as all are buddah natural and "recover that which was lost" to the masses, but used by people who had access and historical development of instructions, probably would find this in every culture of the world and human being. Truth is universal and belongs to no human being.

pete I'am curious to what concept you are refering to in huang-po words.zazen is designed to strip away all concepts and put an end to all illusions.how familiar are you with zen.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete I'am curious to what concept you are refering to in huang-po words.zazen is designed to strip away all concepts and put an end to all illusions.how familiar are you with zen.[/QUOTE]

If you are familiar with Zen then that is not Zen but concepts. and this is illusions huang-po word are his words as my familarity is by my own freshness and self discipline over 30 years of remaing fully in the now. So this experience has made unfamiliar to attachments and false realities to see what is my words and what is huang-po words. I do not place another individual personality as my personality but unique as your words and the words of haung-po.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pete:
If you are familiar with Zen then that is not Zen but concepts. and this is illusions huang-po word are his words as my familarity is by my own freshness and self discipline over 30 years of remaing fully in the now. So this experience has made unfamiliar to attachments and false realities to see what is my words and what is huang-po words. I do not place another individual personality as my personality but unique as your words and the words of haung-po. [/QUOTE]
"Only awake to the One Mind and there is nothing whatever to be attained."
So haung po must have been a physicist but used metaphor language instead of scientific language to explain the nature of mind or spirit, where did he get his source of information from and I bet it,s probably existed before he "discovered it". Only saying what his cultural info and lineage are saying, probably said by others cultures in a different way. Basically he is saying there is no void but information not available to others can be used as a means to create a personality that is supposedly different from others. In other words he is a free thinking intelllectual who is human and the rest is his fan club.

Natural and as simple as a child seated cross legged and just enjoying the nature of their being and how this creates the realities of what one see, think and hear. One awaken and the universe is me and I create my own realities and destiny zazen as meditation has been a practice I have done everyday almost for 25 or more years. Second nature, first nature as I have no second nature just natural child "born to be "wild" and free as nature is. Learning all the time about huang-po and others never offender about new knowledge just grateful for info.

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 06-15-2004).]

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 06-17-2004).]

pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.[/QUOTE]

Huang-po I had never heard of him before this forum glad for the info. John alexandra around 1974 was my first meeting with Zazen 14 at the time, my feeling on the subject of Zazen the practice is "garbage in and gardage out". The mind needs some form of internal discipline or it loses it,s capacity to just be. To be or not to be the answer is to be. Have not wondered from the present moment more than 25 or maybe more years. Learnt about emotionalism of the moment through "stomach" near death experience how emotions thinking affects health. Started meditation at 14 dues understand childhood "trauma" 3 months asleep when 2 years old, with injuries to both legs, stomach and jaws, still have scars and childhood pins in both legs. Operation on jaws and legs and stomach so Zazen is a powerful healing tool, self-hypnosit to accept trauma and let Chi energy heal body. Did not know what this was when young but felt its power, 620lbs squats up to 700lbs once. Hidden strenght. All the emotional scars have healed and imagination and music have revealed more mind gifts. So zen is a reality I have tested and the reality of the moment has many benefits and growth. Non attachements I have also understood, to fulfil my potential as my individuality evolves to when "I survived 3 months of unconsciousness at 2 years old". Now I am currently recovering through Zazen Cancer, tumour on chest, only early stages, beginning to dissapear through "self-hypnosist" and ZAZen the moment never surrender to non reality of past or present thought patterns that enslaves and repeats so as not to live in the present.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.[/QUOTE]

Natural and as simple as a child seated cross legged and just enjoying the nature of their being and how this creates the realities of what one see, think and hear. One to zazen as meditation has been a practice I have done everyday almost for 25 or more years. Second nature, first nature as I have no second nature just natural child "born to be "wild" and free as nature is. Learning all the time about huang-po and others never offender about new knowledge just grateful for info.

Natural and as simple as a child seated cross legged and just enjoying the nature of their being and how this creates the realities of what one see, think and hear. One to zazen as meditation has been a practice I have done everyday almost for 25 or more years. Second nature, first nature as I have no second nature just natural child "born to be "wild" and free as nature is. Learning all the time about huang-po and others never offender about new knowledge just grateful for info.

pete thank you for your reply and shareing your experience of zen and your life.I use the ancient masters words as signpost as i will use your words to further my own development and experience of this ancient and powerful practice.I choose huang-po for this thread because his teaching has touched my life the most and has been a silent guide. pete my heart felt best wishes to you and your family in your battle against cancer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete thank you for your reply and shareing your experience of zen and your life.I use the ancient masters words as signpost as i will use your words to further my own development and experience of this ancient and powerful practice.I choose huang-po for this thread because his teaching has touched my life the most and has been a silent guide. pete my heart felt best wishes to you and your family in your battle against cancer.[/QUOTE]

The battle has already been won and "best wishes have been granted". No more real danger from "cancer" recovery huang-po and krisnamutri they are all sign post to one own silent guide. The reality of the moment does heal the body "negative and anxiety stress etc" can cause one not to fight the battle and win the war, comes from dialy practise of meditation since young age. Fears, guilts and anxiety of the moment are all part of "real cancer" that appears as unexpressed emotions. Second time in life has already won battle against "life trauma" so had a good training in emotional intelligence "as I have learn thinking has a powerful effect on stomach". This has decipline my mind to "reality of the moment and what thinking can either be a cure or does not help to recover. Self-hypnosist have used since 14 to understand and cure "heal thy self physician". All tumour in neck and chest have begun to dissipate and only small amount of residual toxin still being "neutralized by metabolism" as meditation slows the metabolism down and helps toxins in a natural way to excreet. No more strange burning smells and swollen lung tissue. Relaxation and deep self-hynosis have once again brought me back to "the reality of the moment". All other physical signs are healing and new "self confidence again". Gifts appearing again music, memory, and understanding of my own "karma as what is the content of my mind to be in the reality of the moment".


[This message has been edited by pete (edited 06-20-2004).]

pete glad to here you are winning the battle. to be in the now is very powerful and makes every thing you do zazen.I was told once that zazen is to abide in the absoulute.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete glad to here you are winning the battle. to be in the now is very powerful and makes every thing you do zazen.I was told once that zazen is to abide in the absoulute.[/QUOTE]

The absolute is a concept of totality that does not exists, there only the "reality of mind and concrete objects outside the mind".
Abide in the mind now moment and the absolute will remain the "cultural perspective that is a concept" that does not have a basis in the reality of the mind. A theory that cannot be tested as the mind is finite and not absolute. No consciousnes inaminate object or "unknown concept of the universe, just supposition." The mind is the limit and no equipment to "verify this absolute"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete glad to here you are winning the battle. to be in the now is very powerful and makes every thing you do zazen.I was told once that zazen is to abide in the absoulute.[/QUOTE]

Hishiryo is the harmonizing of objective and subjective views, ultimate consciousness beyond time and space, the highest consciousness, universal, beyond all existences, beyond thinking and non-thinking. To experience hishiryo consciousness, that is Zen.

Basically the present moment and nothing else not universal in the sense of mystical but earthly and real. A misunderstanding of the term "universal", Not beyond time and space just the moment.

the absoulute and haisihryo different words same meaning, thats why zen cannot truely be expressed in words.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
the absoulute and haisihryo different words same meaning, thats why zen cannot truely be expressed in words.[/QUOTE]

Can be expressed in music and physical reaction to external circumstances with "seeing what is there and reacting to what is now" Seeing this without fears, and phychological conditioning and emotionalism of the moment. A reaction that is translated to one dialy life with certain choices and not another". A character that is based on reality of the moment, and not "words" articulated reaction only without chosing way to live dialy life".

pete nicely said I agree. this is truely to be free in all we do.


Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete nicely said I agree. this is truely to be free in all we do.


Scott[/QUOTE]

Cultural, religion, music one can see and not have a bias see the whole and not part of the whole. All culture reveals its expression and one can tap into one freedom to listen, react, and not be inhibited by one own bias. All barriers of the mind that hinders growth are released and set free, and there is listening, hearing and seeing with the world perspective and understanding one,s understanding of unknown cultural input. Knowledge that is only limited by one,s path to freedom of mind to just "be" and absorb that which is free.