How do you be natural? How do you flow?

You know I think I might jsut analyse a little too much and need to stop forcing issues and let it all come on it's own. And thats true, I am young enough that I am still developing and so it's almost impossible to try and pin anything down.
Taison- We shall become very good friends...muahahahahahaha...yeah I'm a bit psycho to.

Theres alot of reasons why puberty is so difficult, and you have found one, have fun finding and experiancing the rest!

Ha ha very funny.

Wanna feel the sharp edge of the "ban bat"?

Just kidding dude, but do keep these puberty jokes at a minimum please.

-Taison out

It was pretty funny though.
Anyway, so 'self' or 'I' is an illusion? Is that what Zen people they mean by that?
We just are. At any moment we just are. Interesting and kind of makes sense.
There is no objective 'self' just different aspects of how we behave.

So when your angry your the same as when you are happy? when im angry im usally quiter and tend to be colder to people, when im tired i hardly say anything to anyone but when im happy im more enthusiastic and can be a bit annoying. they are differnt personas created or brought on by mood i wouldent say im not acting like myself thouge. acting differntly around differnt people is what i would class as fake or a persona that is put on for society's sake. but we all do it genrally when we meet new people we want to make a good impression. also i dont think the way you act when you are alone is your real self, its just part of you. We cant just act one way becuse its just not possible, even an animal acts differnt when trying to find/impress a potential mate, is that a fake persona?
So to summirize everything the way we act alone or in differnt social situations is part of our real self the way you act in a social situation is the way you act under slight pressure.

I contradict myself in that but what i mean is if i had to class something as a fake persona etc it would be the way we act when meeting new people.

I guess those are just different facets of 'Us'.
Some of these facets are just more negative than others and dangerous at times (I.E. any facets ruled by fear).
Some are of negative values and some are of positive but all are aspects of who we are and i na way we all share the same ones-and in a way we dont.
We just are. We are the sum of everythign we have experienced and thats it. An extension of that is that we are never the same. At the core we have a foundation of personality charachteristics based on genetics/physiology, but everything outside of that is the sum of 'nurture' or environmental influences. We are a combination of 'nature' and nurture. the ratio is the question. How much of each...

I think personality is solely enviromental the only reason people might have the characteristics of there parents is becuse they have been brought up by them.

Actually no that is very false. Virtually all modern research in psychology and genetics point to the fact that at least some part of our psychology and behavior is decided by genetics and biology. It's a nonegotiable fact. Thats why we have people with mental disorders who need medication.
I have obsessive compulsive disorder and tourettes syndrome, and always have since I can remember. All the cognitive therapy I have done while helping a bit, has not come even close to curing me and actually medication only helps marginally. now if it was environmental I could deal with it, as others who develope OCD from streesful situations eventually and usually overcoem it fully but if you're born with it like me you cant. And I've had doctors say it is definitely the wiring of the brain, not a life experience. It is natural and still influences my thinking.
It is genetic.

Ok but theres a differnce between your personality (attitude, likes and dislikes etc) and a gentic disorder.

Not accurate. OCD can trigger a person to be 'obsessed' with say one person or an idea, a thought, or get real paranoid, worried constantly, it can strongly influence you behavior and personality which is who and what we are.
I am one who gets strongly 'obsessed' and attached to somce girls and get entirely focusedo nthem and end up thinkign about them constantly and only them. Thats OCD. Thats my perosnality, I am single minded and thats OCD.
Our perosnality is largely perceptio nand a schizophrenic person definitely has their perception and thinking influenced by their schizophrenia.
It's genetics and they strongly shape who we are.

Hmm..

I have OCD too I think. When I get attached to a girl, it's really hard for me to let go. They're on my head all the time and everything else isn't as important anymore.

Back to Buddhism and Zen to the guy that posted. Zen and Buddhism is different. End of subject.

Basically, you are who you are. There's not much mystery to that. When you open the fridge, who's the guy opening the fridge? You. Does it get anymore simpler than that?

I don't wake up in the morning look myself in the mirror and ask "WTF are you??". Just accept who you are for the person who you really are.

It doesn't matter if you're emo, sad, depressed, hyper-eccentric... you're you. Nothing can take that away from you. Well, unless you decide to change drastically, then you'll end up being "new" but still you.

-Taison out

sigh. . . first time I curse, I do it in the meditation forum. . . sigh. . .

-Taison out

Other OCD issues I have include touching and moving things in certain orders, or in sets of certain numbers like 7. Its pretty crazy. I even had the constant hand washing for awhile. then arranging things to be perfectly symmetrical (I still sometimes do that). Anyway, I also think about fighting constantly and martial arts. Obsessively.
I hate OCD.

Whoa, thinking about martial arts and fighting all the time is OCD...uh oh...

No I mean like that and girls is ALL that I think about, oh and psychology to. It's constant and unending.

How do you rewire yourself to react differently? How do you control your own behavior and reactions to situations? I keep making the same old mistakes and doing the same stuff over.

Think twice before you do anything. For example;

Someone stares at me. I'd go up to him and ask "What you looking at?". Then I'd stare back right into his face like Vanderlei was on steroids.

If you wanted to rewire, you'd do this; "He's staring at me. Usually I'd go and stare back, but since I want to be a wuss, I'm just either going to ignore or avoid him."

Simple, isn't it? In reality, it's hard like hell.

Never figured out how to do it.

-Taison out

Yeah for sure it is hard as hell. It seems like we have no control almost we have to do the stupid stuff eventually. At least when you have attachments hence why the buddha taught us to break our attachments.

Was going to try to write something supportive, but came across this. A little better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDSAAlrqAHM

So basically we have to put people before ourselves and we'll learn to embrace the great people that we really are.
We have to make an effort to improve ourselves for the benefit of all.
I've heard many people say how much their life improved after finding religion (not that I'm religious). Is this not what religion teaches us? To put others before ourselves. It just so happens to be the way to enlightenment.

Believe it or not, even though I'm a strict buddhist, I am not able to follow his teachings.

I get attachments at all the time. I'm attached to my computer, I'm attached to my way of life, I'm attached to martial arts, I'm attached to being religious, I'm attached to any and all girls in my life.

What is to not get attached? Caring for something you love, is that not attachment?

Seeing my mother die and then tell me not to get attached? WTF is wrong with people. She was the being that gave birth to me, and then someone comes to me and says "don't get attached"? He deserves a fist in his face.

Sometimes religion only goes so far. I'm walking on the borderline between believing and practicing. I believe in his philosophy, but I don't practice it to a certain extent.

People only gets better when they are encouraged and motivated to. I for example, won't get any better if there's nothing to get better for. I'm happy with who I am and what I am, even if it does gets on people's nerves that I am happy with my life and that I have obtained only what a select few will ever get.

I'm not boasting, but I'm fluent in 4 languages, learning a new language, got 2 black belts, I'm linguistically talent which means I can pronounce any words in any language fluently even though I don't know what it means, and I'm usually 100% right about most things because when I do talk I know for sure it's right, or I wouldn't say a word.

Now doesn't that gets on your nerves if you know someone like that? It does for some people and all I can say is [censored] them. Like I care for those pathetic beings anyway. I can't help I spend my time doing more productive stuff instead of eat, sleep, study, eat, sleep, study.

I read a lot, hence I gain "street knowledge" as some people coins it. It just means I have a lot more general knowledge, and with MA I am able to apply things that I read to real life.

For example, I am able to blend in with any type of person. I have enough knowledge of most subjects to be able to have a conversation with anyone, be it political, religious, science, martial art, entertainment, sport, movies, sex (ok, bad choice), fashion, celebrities, history, etc etc.

Just because of one simple reason which believe can't believe. I read magazines.

People these days are so obsessed with getting good at one thing, they forget they have this little thing called 'life' to enjoy.

So here I am with people who are [censored] with me because I enjoy life to the full extent. I study when I have to, I work when I want, I buy stuff and I try new things daily (for example just now, I tried eating cottage cheese with blue berries) and I'm able to have a good laugh with anyone if they're friendly. I've been rubbing elbows with kids, teenagers, cute girls, ugly girls, old men, old women. I'm just that sociable sometimes. It's not some friggin' skill, it's called being 'nice' and 'understanding'.

Where was I? Oh yeah, being smooth. Just be who you are and make people smile. Trust me, I'm a very laconic person in real life, but I am able to get people to either love me or hate when I want them to.

Stupid stuff is just experience in our life.

I'd share with you a few stupid stuff but doing so I might be branded a stalker. Oh well, I guess I have to share it;

Once I used to like a girl, and back then I had absolutely NO CLUE whatsoever how to flirt. It was back in high school. Guess what? I sent her cards, sms, emails, called her and stuff. Guess what? I was acting like a stalker without knowing it.

Now isn't that stupid? To get a girl you like to be so friggin' scared of you that they won't go to class.

Here I am a few years later knowing that I had no chemistry with her whatsoever, and what I did was so hilarious I lmao everytime I think about it.

As for religion, it's a place where you put your faith. I put my faith in Lord Buddha, I put my faith in my mom's spirit, I put my faith in my hands which will carve my family's future someday, I put my faith in me. But I don't put faith in other men because if you want something done right you've got to do it yourself.

-Taison out

Essentially you must learn to see the beauty and value in all things and 'experience' all the reasonable (cottage cheese and blueberries are NOT reasonable! ) things you can.
I guess it's the idea of just living and being i nthe moment rather than living 'for' something or spending all your time having the end in mind. It's the process that counts.

I'm going to agree with you there Taison in that i feel it is probably almost impossible to live without attachment. At times it could be selfish, almost inhumane. How are we to cultivate feelings of compassion without becoming attached to people?

The Dali Lama does suggest somewhere however that non bhuddists could live by the teachings that are relevant to them. For example, I don't believe in Karma or reincarnation but i agree strongly with the idea of ousting emotions such as anger and fear, and cultivating the positive such as love and compassion.

God I hate living in fear of what will come next. I must be pretty screwed up cuz I never stop worrying. Oh well life is fun anyhow. I'm really impatient to. Eh that's life.
It seems as though the more intense and serious and future oriented you get, the more tense and shaky you get and you star6t to break down at a certain point. It's like in a relationship where if you suddenly stop getting quite as much attention as you expect for a little while even if it doesn't mean anything you start to get extremely clingy as if you can pull things back but that solution only serves to drive people away usually so it's tough, you have to disciplin yourself.

Isn't belief in and adherence to a philosophy or teachings a form of attachment in itself?

It is.

And one of the toughest to break if you were raised in a belief.

Actually it can be a huge attachment in some cases which is the nature of bleief or faith. When you let go you know longer believe. Some people (like me for awhile) try to justify their belief even when it's blatantly wrong (or looks that way to them). It's what Sartre called bad faith or doublethink.

Thats why strict belivers are pretty annoying most of them that are too attached become very narrow minded about their belief(s). But i guess thats their flaw and instead of arguing with them we accept that particular characteristic about them and then avoid conflict, therefore avoiding a little bit of uneeded stress.

The thing with Buddhism is that you attach yourself to this principle, then when you're free of almost all your attachment, you give up on this philosophy as well called in Thai "Proong". Which means emptiness. Emptieness? Emptyness? [censored].

In the later stages of life for a buddhist monk, he stops doing some religious habits like "Tudong" (morning walk), but mantra and chants are still done. Basically as he gets older, he stops doing some activities that he's not able to do due to age.

I'm not an expert, but I do know that I'm pretty smart. Now where was I trolling?

Oh yeah, attachment sucks.

-Taison out

I'm pretty annoying too since I know too much info that's pretty useless for everyday life.

-Taison outx2

Well knowledge is power...

I dunno, One could still call themselves christian after doing such a task, dose the fact that one dose not seem christian make them not christian? Is someone not christian becuse they do not belive or becuse they do not follow their rules or traditions?
Guess it depends on if you class someone as part of a relgion becuse they meet text book requirments, or if you class them solely on opinon.

We better get ourselves off the topic of Christianity as the majority of the forums are christians and some aren't really tolerable to discuss or question their belief like I am about Buddhism.

But in my honest opinion, I can rape, murder, burn and steal and still be Christian. Just that I have to accept that by doing those sins I will be overlooked by god, and probably burn in hell for it, which sucks.

A lot of criminals might not follow the ten commandments, but they can still believe in god and Christ. Don't see any reason why breaking a commandment would disqualify them of their belief.

"Damn, I murdered someone, now I gotta change religion!"

Doesn't quite work that way, don't you agree?

As for Longinus, he didn't kill Jesus Christ, he merely stabbed him to check if he was dead or not. And as he stabbed Jesus, Jesus bled water and blood, which is a phenomenon. The spear Longinus used was then henceforth known as the Spear of Destiny, or Spear of Longinus. Many have sought to aqcuire this artifact as it is said that it can increase your power tenfolds and grant you immortality. There are loads of replicas in the world. One is in Austria, one in Germany, one in USA and if I remember right, one is in the UK. The replicas might not be the real one, but they're pretty pretty expensive I can say.

Now, who said Christianity doesn't have mysticism?

-Taison out

Ever hear of the 'Gnostics'? Those were Christian mystics.Andwhat happened to getting of christianity? Listen to your own rules! lol
I want immortality! ha ha
Christianity does kind of leave room to do what you want and still be saved becuase you can just keep asking forgiveness and if yo uare saved God or Jesus will overlook your sins but most Christians would say if you use it like that you were never a true christian in the first place.
I don't know it gets complicated.

I don't think christianity has a monopoloy on killing, murdering etc and yet still proclaiming a belief. Buddhism, Taoism, and all the others have their own fair share.

Christianity does have mysticism. Carmelite mysticism for one. The Eastern Orthodox also has mystical practises.

You think I can rub elbows with both Azrael and Lucifer to avoid, you know, death and afterlife and all that stuff.

You see, I don't want to get burned for all eternity nor locked up in some gruesome chamber in darkness for all eternity.

-Taison out

What really bakes your noodle are the lost 'apocropha' books of the Bible. I have most if not all I think (unless there's a few I don't know about) and they are certainly unusual. Another guy named Jesus who was a scholar of those ancient times I think said that there really is no afterlife but we should be good anyway and focus on living in this life well. Another part I believe says about how Jesus (christ) supposedly said that people would not go to hell for all eternity but could get out eventually but no to tell anyone or they would do whatever they liked. (apparently that was told to one apostle or something).
Interesting stuff, true or not. Christianity does have genuine mysticism which I noticed especially when I went to some of the older churches in jerusalem for example the greek orthodox church or eastern orthodox ( I think).
Interesting stuff indeed.

quick one, I gotta class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_massacre

back again,

here's a couple more:


http://www.sanskritboy.net/2004/01/15/buddhist_violence_in_sri_lanka.html
http://www.bodydharma.org/choices/violence/sivaraksa.html
http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slrv.htm

Now I'm certainly not saying that the violence was 'faith/belief' driven, but if you consider that many Buddhist or Taoist nations had strong empires, I'm sure they never got these through meditation alone.

I'm not suggesting the nature of any faith or belief is responsible for violence either.What I'm considering is that in each faith there seems to be a point where violence can be justified to either an individual or a group.

Interestingly warriors are often considered a high caste, such as in India, but they are responsible for killing. Shaolin monks for example were formidable warriors but responsible for violence.

Presumably at some point the nature of violence must be settled within oneself to allow one to live with it or to allow one to flow with oneself.

Just a note of warning about this first link: the Trivaldis are notorious in their mispresentation of Buddhism and should be avoided.

(link removed)

Link removed, Harlan. Thanks for the warning.

I think it is our own nature and selfishness that bring us to pervert peaceful religions and justify needless violence and you can do it with anything. Even the most peaceful of religions. It is mostly a matter of inner struggle with yourself.

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion”

-- Weinberg.

This thread is seriously derailed.

Who said it? 'All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.'

Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy.

Then again, Theravada Buddhism that Thai people follow is.. a religion. You got Lord Buddha in the heaven, you've got loads of angels and stuff, then you got hell. Very similar to Christianity.

When you do die, your sins will be weighed against the merit and it shows where you will end up. Either in heaven or hell, for a few cycles until you're able to reach Nirvana in a lifetime - only then will you be released.

Thai Buddhism is very religious, not so philosophical like the Chen/Zen or Mahayana variation.

-Taison out

Stormdragon he was saying that relgion dosent stop people being bad or good. althouge the way it was phrased was misleading, it was a bad quote. bad people do evil? im pretty sure apparently good people did evil, if a king goes to war for relgiouse reasons im sure his people think he is good but the other side think he is evil, so anything that defines right and wrong is opinon, and anything thats puts it so simply and catogrizes people simply into good or bad is damm annoying.