IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!!

Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 05:53 AM

No, I havent as you could probably tell from the bold text of the title.

The point I want to question is when you saw the title of the thread, were you happy for me? Hoping to prove me wrong? to gain some inspiration? Because you felt jealous?

What emotion were you feeling when you clicked on this thread? When you saw the big bold letters of the outragous claim and why?
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 08:32 AM

I was irritated that that young pup, DM, seemed to be going Radzwellian on me (a previous troll whose M.O. was typing in all capitals).
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 09:42 AM

Sorry harlen, that wasnt the intention.
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 01:20 PM

I need to spice up my posts with more happy faces so I don't intimate the new guys.

My second thought was 'Oh boy, here we go...'. People DO experience various blissful cognitive states (call it what you will) and it can take a long time to get 'grounded'...to integrate the experience.

Lucky you...we are all so 'enlightened' at FA.com.
Posted by: JoelM

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 02:17 PM

I was irritated and assumed that that young pup, DM, had posted another video from youtube or google.

Hey...I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
Posted by: MikoReklaw

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 05:11 PM

I was hoping for some goofy excuse for the entire post being in caps lock, like ur keyboard was messed up, and some brief view of how you were enlightened...then think "Hey, I knew that. Am I enlightened, too?"

Then, I'd have laughed at you.
Posted by: rideonlythelabel

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 06:17 PM

I chuckled, assuming that it was a joke.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 07:59 PM

Quote:

IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!!



first thing I thought from the title was: Enlightenment...good for him...next thing to tackle would be punctuation.

Posted by: ScottO

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/26/06 08:42 PM

I think I cheated. I was eating a bagel and wasn't really paying attention to what I was clicking or where I was going.


But I'm sure I looked past the caps and thought, "Oh, cool. Someone's a happy person."
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/28/06 03:16 AM

Okay guys, enough with the jokes (though they are funny)

The point I was hoping to make in this thread was simply asking that if you met someone who had actually reached enlightenment, would you react differently to them as what you would normally act like when around others (who hadnt).

Can you honestly say that you would be yourself around them and not be a total butt kisser
Posted by: BrianS

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/28/06 03:28 AM

Define Enlightenment.

I've never been a butt kisser.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/28/06 07:13 AM

everyone raise your hand if you've ever been in the presence of an Enlightened one....
{sound of crickets under the full moonlight}

what do they look like again? shiney heads and drab clothing? or thousand yard stare and fortune cookie wisdom?

can you pick one out in a crowd so you know who NOT to ask what time it is when you have a train to catch?
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 03/28/06 08:05 AM

I have read that to 'see Buddha nature in others is to recognize Buddha nature in one's self.' My spin on that is: the moment you recognize the enlightenment of another is the moment you yourself are enlightened.

Quote:

The point I was hoping to make in this thread was simply asking that if you met someone who had actually reached enlightenment, would you react differently to them as what you would normally act like when around others (who hadnt).


Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/01/06 01:36 PM

That makes sense since you must have an idea of enlightenment as to recognise it, so in the temples where they train for years to reach enlightenment they must have somebody in there to confirm the enlightenment of the monks.
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/01/06 06:27 PM

Maybe. But maybe it's all BS too.
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 04:29 AM

Just how do you get recognized as enlightened then?
Posted by: founderofryoute1

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 09:22 AM

By definition, to be recognised as enlightened, all you need to do is convince other people believe that you have spiritual or intellectual insight.

Martin
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 10:56 AM

hmmmm...so enlightenment is a concensus? the more people believing you, the more enlightened you are? sounds similar to a cult of personality.
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 01:27 PM

Which means going back to what Harlen said, if you recognise enlightenment in others, you in turn recognise it in yourself.

So in a sense, it takes one who is enlightened to recognise the enlightened (or am I just twisting the meaning?).
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 01:47 PM

Nope. I suggested that if one works to see the Buddha nature in others, that one will actually be realizing it in themself. For example, it isn't necessary for a Tibetan monk's root teacher to be an enlightened being, or even to have any degree of realization. It IS necessary for that monk to be aware of the Buddha nature, of the intrinsic enlightened/sacred aspect of that teacher in order to find the same in themself.


Quote:

hmmmm...so enlightenment is a concensus? the more people believing you, the more enlightened you are? sounds similar to a cult of personality.


Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 02:51 PM

Because you always put quotes after your comments |I get confused, was your last comment a response to my last comment or to Ed's quote?
Posted by: founderofryoute1

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 07:16 PM

Quote:

hmmmm...so enlightenment is a concensus? the more people believing you, the more enlightened you are? sounds similar to a cult of personality.



I didn’t actually say that. DCM asked how to become recognised as enlightened and I told him. Actually being enlightened is a different matter. I think anyone that realises something spiritual or intellectual has become enlightened. It can’t be measured or compared it’s just something that happens to you. It could happen lots of times. However I do think that the whole concept is misleading and not very useful.

Martin
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 07:35 PM

...seems I have a habit of misunderstanding you, must get tiresome having to correct me all the time. appologies once again.
Posted by: founderofryoute1

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 09:10 PM

You still made a good point. I think all religions suffer from the cult of personality. Buddhism is no exception.

Martin
Posted by: eyrie

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/02/06 09:45 PM

Quote:

I chuckled, assuming that it was a joke.




Ha ha... it's exactly like a joke. Some get it, some don't.

But....if you already know the joke, does that mean you are enlightened? Or are you enlightened *when* you *get* the punchline?

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 09:05 AM

What is the laughing buddha laughing about? maybe it's because he knows that what is really in the bag he is carrying is ambiguous. Reminds me of Santa....now there is another good laugher....
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 09:22 AM

Ambiguous...or non-static...constantly changing? Perhaps 'enlightenment' isn't a pinnacle, a mountaintop or goal to attain? That inherent in our Western view of enlightenment is 'attainment', and the conundrum is that the moment something is 'attained' it is actually gone?

Like capturing a butterfly. Once you grab it out of flight, and 'have it' in your hand...what do you really 'have'?
Posted by: JoelM

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 11:22 AM

An Ashihara stylist from California?
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 11:27 AM



Butterfly - ButterflyPalm?
Posted by: nenipp

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 03:10 PM

Maybe you cannot reach enlightenment, it can reach you?
Posted by: ScottO

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 03:32 PM

Quote:

Maybe you cannot reach enlightenment, it can reach you?




Eh, I don't know. That tells me stories of fate or luck. Because then surely everyone will be enlightened eventually? Or just the chosen ones?
I'd like to think I have control of where I am in my life...
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 05:04 PM

Theres a nice shared double meaning about santa and the laughing buddha that I implied...

What the fat guys are laughing about is not that everyone thinks their sack is full of presents (physical gifts)....but rather they are laughing because we don't realize their sack is actually full of present moments....

isn't enlightenment living in the moment....in the present?
Posted by: eyrie

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/03/06 08:38 PM

Living or being?

Perception of time ("the moment") is an illusion. Ergo, enlightenment is illusory.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 12:50 AM

Could you guys turn the enlightenment off... I'm trying to sleep...

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 01:11 AM

don't you still have those nightshades santa put in your stocking last year?
Posted by: eyrie

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 02:32 AM

Or you could just close your eyes and ignore the light - like everyone else who is not "awakened".
Posted by: ikklehen

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 10:44 AM

Yeh! the present is for living and enjoying, experiencing and feeling. The present can build the future but so can the past. The past can affect the future but the present has the power to change that! The present is the most powerful tool in tranforming events and fate!

Are we talking about a Nirvana situation here or just waking up and smelling the flowers?



xxx
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 10:47 AM

Perhaps it is the same thing...only different?

Quote:

Are we talking about a Nirvana situation here or just waking up and smelling the flowers?


Posted by: ikklehen

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 11:04 AM

I have heard Nirvana can be quite an upsetting experience for those unprepared! Myself, I am happy sniffing the flowers. I will leave my 7th Chakra to the heavens! If somebody asks you if you would like to have your Chakras opened or bring Nirvana, enlightenment etc...

RUN!


xxx
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 12:33 PM

thanks for the tip.
Posted by: nenipp

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 01:41 PM

Quote:

I'd like to think I have control of where I am in my life...




You probably do, but are you enlightened?
Posted by: ScottO

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 02:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'd like to think I have control of where I am in my life...




You probably do, but are you enlightened?




I don't know? All I know is I don't do drugs or beat children and I always give people a chance... I wouldn't act any different if I was called enlightened or idiotic.

I'm Irish, I know for sure....
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 08:25 PM

Irish! that explains alot

(Dont worry, im part irish, i think)
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/04/06 10:53 PM

lol Scott...that has to be the funniest post I've read in a while. I hearby crown you 'Enlightened'...wait, can an unenlightened person promote someone to enlightenment? we better form an 'Enlightenment Council' straight away before the title swapping gets out of hand.
Posted by: nenipp

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/05/06 01:57 PM

What's special about Irish?

(if someone would bee kind enough to inform an ignorant foreigner)
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/05/06 02:01 PM

you missed the humor: he doesn't know if he's Enlightened or not, but he's at least sure that he is Irish.


nevermind...its not funny when you explain a joke. lol
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/05/06 02:01 PM

I always say 'Thank God for the Irish!' (Am I allowed to use the Big G word?) I appreciate the crazy celtic humour in the face of tribulation, the great music, and just plain Irish tenacity.
Posted by: ScottO

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/05/06 03:14 PM

Harlan, you seem to overlook our unbelievably unattractive accents, also!

Ed, If that joke led to enlightenment, then the rest of you guys must be saints!

Back to enlightenment, I'm unsure if it is enlightenment or something else, but when someone people are around you, their presence just glows with positive energy and you can feel it. I don't know if I made a post about this in here or I deleted it right after I typed it all up
But can someone elaborate on this? Enlightenment (assuming it gives off positive energy) being felt by other people by being near or talking to that person?


EDIT: Whoah, how many times did I just say enlightenment....?
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/05/06 03:22 PM

I've met a lot of charismatic and energetic people that were far from enlightened...if I judged (me bad...to judge) from their actions.

Speaking of a 'glow'...I think that is always there...it just depends on where we are as to how we percieve it.
Posted by: ikklehen

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/06/06 09:22 AM

er... no worries Harlan... about the tip...
Posted by: nenipp

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/06/06 03:43 PM

I hope enlightenment won't prove as difficult to grasp as Irish humor
Posted by: Spirit

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/07/06 08:03 AM

Take a look at my signature
Posted by: BrianS

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/08/06 12:24 AM

I could care less if I'm enlightened,even more so if anyone else thinks I am.
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 04/08/06 05:14 PM

Spirit, you have no signature (if thats supposed to be the point, I dont get it)

Welcome to the forums by the way
Posted by: one

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 08/17/06 02:50 AM

enlightentment is veiwed as seeing everything at once, everything which we ourselves can not persceve. This goes beyond our human exsistance, beyond ;time and everthing else that makes up exsistence. To reach enlightentment is easy just stop thinking literally do not think, you can feel of coarse because emotions are still there, now these are just the base emotions not the ones created in part by the concious mind (which isnt here if your doing it right, but you wouldn't be reading this either...) The two base emotions are fear and love. Unfortuatly we are all fearful of death which tips many in the negitive as a whole. So it is not possible to feel fear only which would be a kind of enlightentment that would be more like a christian "hell" so to speak however what does one fear while no thinking and therefore losing there attachments.... nothing is one tiny thought somewhere infinatly small still exists you will be fearful, irratrionally the same as we are irratrionally fearful of death right now.

If i take a step back dont take my word for it just do this if you can:
do not think

by not thinking literally you are mentally, and mathimtically becomeing "0" on every scale that exsists in the universe and in this universe you cand see the universe which is-"1" but while in the universe or "1" you cannot see it as a whole like you cant see inside the middle of the sun because being here means you must abide by the governing rules that place peramiters on your perception
so remember this is the universe 01 become the zero and acheive enlightentment NOW STOP THINKING DAMN IT
Posted by: Christie

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 08/18/06 07:28 AM

If you reached enlightment would you even be aware of your attainment of it?

As soon as you become aware of having something you no longer have it anymore. Of course not physically speaking as I'm aware I have a hand and I'm pretty sure it's still there, in relation to the physical world anyways.
Posted by: nenipp

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 08/20/06 02:21 PM

Quote:

If you reached enlightment would you even be aware of your attainment of it?

As soon as you become aware of having something you no longer have it anymore. Of course not physically speaking as I'm aware I have a hand and I'm pretty sure it's still there, in relation to the physical world anyways.




It's not the "aware" that screwes it, it's the "you"..
Posted by: Christie

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 08/20/06 04:52 PM

Quote:

It's not the "aware" that screwes it, it's the "you"..




That's my point. "Aware" and "you" are synonymous in the context that if there is no you than there is nothing to be aware of. As soon as you think you are enlightened you become the exact opposite. In that sense one can only recognize the enlightenment in others when they themselves are not enlightened. The conundrum is that how can you recognize something in someone else that you cannot recognize in yourself without losing it.
Posted by: harlan

Re: IVE REACHED ENLIGHTENMENT!!! - 08/21/06 08:19 AM

Awareness does not dissappear. Understanding of duality does not mean unenlightenment, or else Buddha would not have been able to give lectures on the topic and be enlightened at the same time.

As for enlightenment, it is easier for my Western mind to understand 'state of grace'. Being in a state of grace, in union/no duality is synonymous with enlightenment (as far as I understand it). In that state, one percieves the enlightenment of others, the innate Buddha nature. To recognize one's own innate Buddha nature, to have a sense of self, is to experience duality, and logically non-union.

I like the Ox herder koans, the last one, where one returns to the marketplace. To me, it is very daoist...you go up the hill (enlightenment) and you go down the hill (unenlightened). But one can only understand where one has been (the enlightened state), by seeing it from a distance.

I don't think of entering the marketplace, going down the hill, as losing anything; There is nothing to lose.

Quote:

That's my point. "Aware" and "you" are synonymous in the context that if there is no you than there is nothing to be aware of. As soon as you think you are enlightened you become the exact opposite. In that sense one can only recognize the enlightenment in others when they themselves are not enlightened. The conundrum is that how can you recognize something in someone else that you cannot recognize in yourself without losing it.