More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'!

Posted by: VS_Karateka

More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'! - 10/18/05 07:57 AM

OK, not really sure where to post this or in fact whether it needs a response, I'll leave it up to you.
It may come out as a bit of a ramble, so bear with me.....
I've not been doing karate for long but in the past year have really got into it and can't get enough information!
If I'm honest, I started karate as a way of meeting new people, getting fit and had always thought it would be quite a 'fun' thing to learn. I got all the above.....and much, much more!
I always knew there was a kind of spiritual side of Karate and other martial arts, and if I'm honest used to think of it as being quite amusing, I suppose it was just a sign of a gross misunderstanding on my part.
I try and explain to friends about the 'other side' of what martial arts can offer but I can't seem to ex plane in words what I feel. I don't know if you can truly understand unless you experience it.
I started training and for quite a while, literally just looked at the physical side of things, going to class each week and going through the various movements. I'm the type of person that needs to know why I'm doing something and although they do teach this in class the info wasn't enough and I felt I needed to research the subject myself. Oh the minefield I opened for myself, there is so much to read and learn out there! One of the first things I read was 'Zen in the Martial arts'. Sounded intriguing! from there I have just been reading up anything to do with Karate/MA history, beliefs, Japaneses way of life etc.....
I would really recommend anyone studying a MA especially beginners etc..to read up on as much as you can there is so much more to MA than what you see.
It has made me think about so much and I have become aware of the way I deal with certain situations inside and outside of the dojo, it has and will continue to change my repose and approach to things and I'm so glad I took the initial step into the world of MA it really is becoming a 'Way' for me not just something I practise a few times a week.
I urge everyone to dig deeper for information, you never know what you might find and what who you might become!
Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'! - 10/18/05 06:12 PM

Thats a good train of thought.Just beware everything you might read is not always valid,do homework on the authors,and there methods.Zen in the martial arts is a good book,i belive it was hyams who wrote it(i am in a blur right now)a great read.Continue to keep that way of thinking for there is infinite knowlege in the arts,we all have alot to learn!
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'! - 10/19/05 05:54 AM

If you want to learn the "internal" side of martial arts, I'd suggest you look into either tai chi and/or yoga. I have never gotten much philosophy from any sensei.
Posted by: VS_Karateka

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'! - 10/19/05 08:34 AM

Hi Ironfoot!!
I don't think I explaned my self propery when I said,
Quote:

I'm the type of person that needs to know why I'm doing something and although they do teach this in class the info wasn't enough and I felt I needed to research the subject myself

I feel I'm very lucky to have joined an organization that does look at and teach all aspects of karate, our sensei does talk about the phylosophical side the few hours of info a week wasn't and isn;t enough and I was and still am thirsty to find out more. By reading up on things I've realized how the organization is run and why decisions to do and not do certain things are made. It would have been so easy for me to have joined a McDojo but by chance I didn't and I'm very gratefull for that. Thank you for your views though! The thing is I just want somewhere to spout, I don't really know what I want to say, I just know I want to tell as many people as I can how I feel and how great it is. I'm sure you all know what I mean! I just LOVE IT!
Posted by: SANCHIN31

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA'! - 10/19/05 05:40 PM

If I go to a karate school and the sensei starts rambling on about philosophy,I'm leaving,but that's just me.I get my enlightenment elsewhere.
Posted by: Mark Hill

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA - 10/19/05 07:05 PM

That's true Sanchin, but when you start discussing whether a child should grade for black belt and what age(12? 14? 17?), or how you can contribute to your school developing, you are philosophising.
Posted by: Gavin

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA - 10/20/05 04:18 AM

I agree with Sanchin.....but Zen in the Martial arts is to me, one of the most important books any MA could have. Its such an easy book to read you can almost miss the subtle wisdom contatined in it. You'll continue to read it for years and years to come.

Having said that, philosophy, particually Zen, is a personal quest. Your pursuit of it will be entirely different to mine. Its something that needs to be discovered, in much the same way as it sounds you have. Its great, your there training then all of a sudden it jumps out and bites your arse. The limit to my teaching Zen philosophy in class probably is probably a quick comment over a pint in the pub after training. One of our students has just started asking about Zen and the like and I recomended Zen in the Martial Arts, which he read in one sitting. Its a great little book, if your friends are interested in what your learning why not let them borrow your copy of the book? I regularly buy Zen in the Martial arts as gifts for people, just a little thank you to those who I think would be interested.


But back to the philosophy teaching thing, I always find it a little distasteful when an instructor starts trying to instill their own philosophies on students.....always reply with "If you meet the Buddha on the road, Kill him!"....In fact I'm halfway through an article called "Kicking Buddha in the nuts" which touches upon this subject!
Posted by: Mark Hill

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA - 10/20/05 05:20 AM

I always found Daoism more personally suited to me.

People get carried away with the Chan/Zen Buddhism.
Posted by: Gavin

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA - 10/20/05 07:07 AM

Funny I've found the same with Daoism. Of all the philosophies I've looked into I've found personally that Zen is the most pure brutal clear cut non-BS approach for me. I don't generally talk about it, coz I do agree with you that a lot of people get far to carried away with it. Below is a little story from a great little book called Zen Flesh, Zen Bones :

Quote:

The Stone Mind

Hogen, a Chinese Zen teacher, lived alone in a small temple in
the country. One day four traveling monks appeared and asked
if they might make a fire in his yard to warm themselves.
While they were building the fire, Hogen heard them arguing
about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and said:
"There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside
your mind?"
One of the monks replied: "From the Buddhist viewpoint
everything is an objectification of mind, so I would say that the
stone is inside my mind."
"Your head must feel very heavy," observed Hogen, "if you are
carrying around a stone like that in your mind."



I really like that one!
Posted by: SANCHIN31

Re: More than meets the eye, the 'other side of MA - 10/20/05 10:32 AM

Quote:

That's true Sanchin, but when you start discussing whether a child should grade for black belt and what age(12? 14? 17?), or how you can contribute to your school developing, you are philosophising.



Well,I'm a self admitted hipocrite too!!!!