Posted by: baby_bwoy

rumours? - 04/19/06 02:12 PM

hey al filipino and its really nice to see a forum like this..but to get to the point, me and my dad always joke about fighting and ma and so on...we occasionally spar and he brought up the idea that the next time we go back to philippines that on his side of the family he would take me to afew of the boxing clubs he used to train at in his younger days and on my mums side id be taken to the yaw yan and other kick boxing clubs to fight there and train really excited at the prospect, just that from what ive heard from my dad and my uncles that the other fighters there are really aggressive..ive been training for 5 years regularly but from some of the yaw yan videos ive seen they actually do look really agressive and though i train in full contact and sparr atleast once a week, im kinda worried about being over whelmed from the get go..i thought of pacing the fight in my way and tying them up or clinching and letting them run out of steam through thier agression but im stil alittle iffy on the matter, none the less im really excited but these facts or umours still have me a bit startled so im asking if you guys have any experience fighting really agressive opponents and also if you think traits such as agression can bestereotyped to a specific ethnicity on how and where they train...thanks
Posted by: MattJ

Re: rumours? - 04/19/06 02:42 PM

I don't think aggressiveness has anything to do with ethnicity per se. Regional differences in fighting style can emphasize aggressiveness, but that is a trait to be brought out of the individual, not a whole group of people.
Posted by: Cord

Re: rumours? - 04/19/06 02:48 PM

i dont know if you read my 'welcome to thailand Cord' thread in the kickboxing forum, but it may help a little in adjusting to a different atmosphere of class/school.
My school is very much geared towards the teaching of and learning martial arts. We do spar, and we can go hard depending on individual agreement with the partner in question.
The thai boxing class I visited was for fighters and fighting. This can make a big difference to the atmosphere and content of you 90 minutes.

If you are going to visit gyms/schools geared towards fighting, you can only expect to meet aggression in the sparring environment- you are fighting a fighter.

Thats great if its what you want to do- that makes you a fighter too, and you can let loose with your own aggression in a consenting environment. There will still be rules, and the ability to tap/quit if it gets too much.

its not a geographical thing- the Dog Brothers are crazy hardcore in the good ol' USA. it just depends on the goals and philosophy of the trainers, and from there the students they attract.

You will be introduced to all these places by members of your family, and they have all trained in them and lived to tell the tale, so I suspect you will do just fine
Posted by: SEAL

Re: rumours? - 04/23/06 08:38 PM

I think the Dog Brothers are more crazy than hardcore. I totally disagree with their stance on minimal protection. It's machoism at its finest.
Posted by: JKogas

Re: rumours? - 04/23/06 09:32 PM

The Dog Brothers fight like that only two times per year (unless people agree to do so on their own).

The stick-fighting that people see and assume is training, is actually video clips shot during those "Gatherings" that happen TWICE A YEAR. Twice. Not everyday.

Having spoken with Marc Denny personally about this, I can TELL you that isn't how they train on a daily basis, year round.

There wouldn't be any "Brothers" left in the "family" if they did otherwise.

Don't be mistaken about the Dog Brothers because of an assumption about their teaching and training methods. Do some research first.

Posted by: SEAL

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 12:06 AM

With all due respect, I did do my research, thank you very much. And I wasn't making an assmumption about their entire training regimen. I'm not sure how you arrived at that statement. I am aware of their training. But it doesn't change the fact I still disapprove of fighting with minimal protection. I'm sorry but that is just stupid. Other than that, it's a great style. Personally, I prefer Tucci's style.
Posted by: Cord

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 05:20 AM

I hope my example doesn't derail the thread, I should clarify that i was merely illustrating that training with an ethos of testing ones skills in intense, consenting and controlled physical contact is not a situation unique to a specific culture or area, rather, it is controlled by the outlook and tutelage of the instructor and hence the students that their teaching appeals to.
i was not suggesting that the DB's just wailed at each other 24/7 with lumps of kamagong, to my (admittedly limited) understanding, you have to be invited to a 'gathering', such an invite I would assume is only issued if you have a reasonably high level of skill in stick fighting.
Posted by: baby_bwoy

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 01:31 PM

Who are the dog brothers..i tried looking for them on internet and saw numerous links but im not sure who the real ones are..bless
Posted by: MattJ

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 03:03 PM
Posted by: JKogas

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 05:29 PM


With all due respect, I did do my research, thank you very much. And I wasn't making an assmumption about their entire training regimen. I'm not sure how you arrived at that statement. I am aware of their training. But it doesn't change the fact I still disapprove of fighting with minimal protection.

THAT I am ok with.


I'm sorry but that is just stupid.

You know what they say about opinions....


Personally, I prefer Tucci's style.

Why, because they fight with padded sticks and full plate mail?

Sorry, I just happen to believe completely in what the Dog Brothers do and what they're about. Understanding it on a deeper level reveals that they are ANYTHING but "stupid" with what they do.

So it isn't for you. Fine. It's not for a lot of people.

Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: rumours? - 04/24/06 06:07 PM

Seriously though - if anyone wants to call themselves an FMA "purist" (I know I don't claim it), then the Dog Brothers gatherings should not be a shock to them. Kali has a long standing tradition of brutal training and even though you can more often than not find kinder, gentler instruction, the old school is still out there. My two instructors both have bone splinters and old dislocated digit injuries from their years of stick fighting. They have both trained in the PI and said it was the most physically jarring experience of their lives. There are even schools that practice with live knives there (allegedly). I'm not saying any of this is good or bad, but condemning it as stupidity is simply short sighted. For some of us, soft targets, forms and drilling techniques is not enough. That's all that's to it.
Posted by: SEAL

Re: rumours? - 04/25/06 03:05 AM

I must say I certainly do not appreciate the manner in which you're speaking to me. I sense sarcasm in your words, but I could be wrong; so I apologize if I am. For the record, I never condemned the Dog Brother's training. If that's what you're implying, I suggest you re-read what I wrote and tell me where I said I disapprove of their entire training. All I said was practicing with minimal protection is stupid and I stand by it. Matter of fact, I'm exiting this conversation because you will not persuade me and I probably won't pursuade you -- it's just pointless. I'd rather agree to disagree and move on.

Posted by: JKogas

Re: rumours? - 04/25/06 08:01 AM

I was joking about the padded sticks and plate mail bit...

No offense was intened. (I know that not everyone gets my humor around here).

I understand where you're coming from and you're completely entitled to your views. Don't take my (sometimes idiotic) attempts at humor for disrespect.

I DO like the Dog Brothers but that's me. You're free to follow your own path.


Posted by: hedkikr

Re: rumours? - 04/28/06 09:51 PM

1st of all, I'm not a tuff guy nor have I ever tried to represent myself as one. In past threads, I've said that if MA were taught as they were meant to be taught, I wouldn't be teaching. The main reason I teach is because there's so much junk out there, I hope my humble instruction will steer some away from that junk. However, I've paid my dues w/ a range of injuries from bothersome to serious so there.

I have the utmost respect for the DB because they do that which I'm not able to do. By putting themselves on the line, they live MA the way real MA is meant to be. No obligatory black belts, no social promotion, no XMA-like performances. This is not stupid but maybe you're harboring some envy.

BB - Re: the PI trip...
(my wife is Filipino so give me a bit of latuitude here) You'll either encounter situation A or B.

Sit. A: "Who dis Pinoy-wanna-be tink he is?" You'll find yourself w/ many "Pasa" from all the "Suntok" & "Hataw" (Arnis).

Sit. B: "Better take it easy on dis "Lampa" so he'll take us to Jolly Bee after."

No, really, have a great trip! One day I hope to take some Arnis instruction in Cebu.

Posted by: mike-a

Re: rumours? - 04/29/06 10:14 PM

I like the DB approach, as it does trample on a few sacred cows in the FMA community, for example:-

- The effectiveness of the majority of disarms.
- The fact that people can take a significant ammount of punishment to the body, and not be stopped.
- That light sticks are really going to do any damage.

Obviously, it's not 100% realistic. Headgear and gloves make a *lot* of difference to the effectiveness of your shots. That said, the majoriy of folks are actually able to take a good shot with a light stick pretty much anywhere on the body, and maybe one to the head. But a heavy stick (kamagong, bahi, steel pipe) maybe not.

It should be a personal choice thing. Where I train we do a lot of sparring with padded sticks and light gloves and headgear.(These sticks still hurt a fair bit, only slightly less that light rattan, but with power behind them and a well-placed shot to a good area - BAM!) Occasionally we do some live stick., but things tend to slow down a bit. The padded sticks pretty much let us fire off at full power. Sure you get a few welts and bruises, but nothing worse than empty-hand sparring, or even boxing. But the other day I went to a school where they didn't wear headgear for padded stick sparring. I conciously "pulled" my attacks and it really messed up my game. My timing was way out because all the power shots I'd been using at full steam weren't being used, and the opponent was reacting in a completely different way. The pain of being hit makes them move differently, and if you train to be reacting with this, it messes you up when it doesn't happen.

If you don't get a realistic response, you don't know how things will happen in, erm "practical application" outside the school.

If a major goal of your training isn't to be able to apply your art practically, this won't be a concern. If it is, it will most definitely be one.

In the end, it is stick-fighting. 2 guys with sticks, which is not all that likely to happen in real life.

The other thing, of course, is the application of blade-based training...