Censorship of the board

Suck it up, Princess.

Yes, I thought the supreme court thread should have been shut down, along with other threads that weren't.

Discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion may be how the USA began. This is NOT Colonial America. Neither is this a free place. This is a private website owned and operated by private entities that allow you to participate at THEIR leisure. It also has participants from around the world so there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights that apply. If you feel stifled, then create your own website and talk how you want there. You ARE free to do that if you wish.

If you feel rules are being selectively applied, then stating your opinion in a factual manner is much more productive than whining about being the oppressed minority. But in the end, unless you are a moderator, then you have no powers except the power to leave.

Good grief, what are you auditioning for, local government, or an oscar

The only thing I'm seeking is fairness!

To answer your points.

1. This is not the USA. This is a website with a global community, that embraces different cultural and religious concepts by keeping them out of discussions, so that personal dogma's do not cloud meeting of minds through a unified interest in martial arts.

Then do away with the "General Discussion" Forum as that makes people think they can have , well, a General discussion. My reference to the USA's birthing process was just that, a reference as how the debates of the topics were not shut down!

2. The rules of the site are set neither by admin, nor moderators (plural, its not just me btw), they are set by the site owner - the guy who invests his time and money in providing the space for us to use. His house, his rules. Complaints to the organ grinder, not his monkeys please

Does not Mr. Calie read his own site? Maybe if he see's there are unhappy campers, he changes the rules!

3. Inconsistency is human. We are human. Hence some threads get more room to breath than others. I personaly have not seen the other thread you mention, but will look for it now, and lock it in the name of consistency. I am sure this will delight you.

No, it doesn't delight me at all as it goes against what I'm complaining about to begin with (just being consistent)!

4. If the site content bores you, you have 2 choices. 1. Raise your game and come up with interesting martial topics for us all to discuss within parameters of the rules that you agreed to upon setting up your account, or 2. move on and find a dedicated forum that caters to your inerests and needs. Thats freedom of choice in action right there. Rejoice.

I have tried as have others and the board still lies some what dorment. Yes I agreed to the rules 5 years ago and if you read my post, I have CLEARLY stated that due to incosistencies I have changed my mind!

5. If martial topics evolve to embrace certain political input and it is valid, then leeway can be granted in the name of the topic, but overt purely political discussion is just off topic, and does not enrich the site - I wouldnt go to a politics board to discuss self defence, and I wouldnt visit an MA site to talk politics. Horses for courses eh?

If self defence comes up on a politcal site, I say have at it! Again, see above about having (or NOT having) a "General Discussion" forum!

6. I wont lock this topic, but I am going to edit out your ninja furtherance of a political topic. Thats how I roll.

Have a nice day.

Yes it is a private site, BUT the owner IS an American citizen who is protected by the constitution as his site is originated here!

And you make my point BEAUTIFULLY, ONLY the Mods have the freedom to choose WHAT political threads can be locked down or not!

My FIRST REFERENCE to the constitution was in regards to the goings on in Wisconsin, NOT this board (which, btw, has been removed)

My second reference to it was that Mr. Calie, the owner of the site, is an American citizen and as such, he and this board which originated in the USA is protected by it!

So before anyone else wants to jump on me about my REFERENCES to such things, READ THE POST THOROUGHLY AND KEEP IT IN CONTEXT! Which can be hard to do as a portion of my post has been "Edited"!

Hi Vince. I know that it's hard to imagine that this American-owned site wouldn't be protected under the constitution, but I'm pretty sure that is the case. It looks like it should be, since you and I live in America. But I assure you that if we lived in say, Iran or China, or any other number of more oppressive states, this site - and any other that government felt like - could and would be blocked instantly. The internet is not protected by the constitution.

And in any case, as Cord noted, Mr. Caile has set the rules on free speech here for the mods to follow. Technically, there isn't supposed to be *any* political or religious stuff at all, unless it strictly had to do with martial arts (like the case of shorinji-ryu kempo, say), so we were granting quite a bit of freedom in allowing any at all, by the rules. Sometimes it was walking a tightrope in deciding to allow or not allow things in the general forum. Even the mods did not always agree!

Then I'm guessing that you don't remember the ruling by the Supreme Court a few years back that protected some scumbag who had a site that used "Virtual" chidren and made up stories about disgusting acts with them under the premise of free speech!

Face it, you don't have free speech on here. Start your own site if you don't like. Or once again, if you really think your rights are somehow being infringed take it to the supreme court. It'll be thrown out immediately I bet but go ahead and try.
And the fact is, as strange as it sounds, free speech has limits (which is why you can't yell fire in a building when there isn't one and why the Westboro Baptist nut jobs are banned from protesting in some areas).

Ha, don't get me started on the Supreme Court, LOL (see the GD Supreme Court thread). They have made some massively bad decisions recently, IMHO. The dog-fighting thing INFURIATED me.

But to stay on topic, the Supreme Court does not set the rules here - Mr. Caile does. I'll be the first one to admit I haven't done a perfect job, but there is no political conspiracy, at all.

Why would I want to start my own sight? I have made an observation and expressed a view and all I have recieved for the most part is nasty critisism about me not liking how some threads are locked and others are not when they are of the same or similar topics that are "Against" the rules! I won't even bother to address your comment regarding bringing something before the supreme court!

Yes, Life has rules and laws, but discussing a political or religous view does not pose a threat or endanger a life like doing 70 miles an hr in the middle of town and running red lights or yelling "FIRE" in a crowded room for that matter!

I signed up on this sight agreeing to abide by the rules set.

And finally, there have been several comments of my references to the constitution taking completely out of context and will continue as by removing that portion of my post, people cannot refer back to it!

discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion is exactly how the USA began its birthing process, it took awhile, but the founders came to a conclusion and went on from there.

Nice try Cord. Yes, Life has rules and laws, but discussing a political or religous view does not pose a threat or endanger a life

But as the years went on and I saw how some threads were allowed to go on and others nipped immediately I began to question why the rules applied to some threads and not others. When these threads come up, do you and the other mods confer with Mr. Calie, or do you just say "WHOA! Thats against the rules"! And if its the latter, why some go on and others do not?

Early on in the life of the 'general talk' forum the mods decided to give greater leeway to the life of non martialart topics, so that should they tread political paths, they would be given room to right themselves.

In that spirit, some political topics have been let loose, dependant on the judgement call of the mod who happens to see them.

Unfortunately, many people--and I think this is particularly true of people from the US--are extremely averse to conflict. They loath it. They run from it. They don't see that the heat of conflict can often generate light; instead, they see conflict as having no value whatsoever. If given the chance, they will often censor people as a means of avoiding conflict. They'd rather stifle people altogether than risk having anyone say anything upsetting to anyone else. It is utterly undemocratic, but there it is.

Having said that, there are times when moderators need to shut discussion down. Too many boards end up being hijacked by a handful of loudmouthed cranks with endless time on their hands. A few years back, I saw grandemesa.com, a board created by an immigrant right supporter, completely overwhelmed and and destroyed by a handful of militant xenophobes. Their non-stop, Mexican-baiting, racist diatribes drove everyone else away. In the end, the haters were the only ones left. The creator had to shut it down.

So suddenly, being against illegal immigration (supporting AMERICAN LAW) means you're a loudmouthed crank and a racist? Thanks bro real nice. I bet they weren't racist, I bet people jumped to that because nearly all illegals happen to be from Mexico but that's not really the issue, it's just something overly liberal people like to say to divert attention from the real issue.

Hasn't this forum developed a "Political Nature"?

The reason the board has slowed down IMHO is there were a few years where pretty much everything was covered, in depth. So now (since we can't get into politics) we are left discussing the nature of discussion.

Actually Cord I respectfully disagree. I was raised a devout protestant fudnamentalist christian and was one for a very long time. A few people in my life, 2 teachers and a close friend convinced me of other views after many long discussions.

I have always liked the saying 'winning an internet argument is like winning at the special olympics - even in victory, you are still retarded' ;

For awhile I supported the rules of the board but no longer do as there is some hypocracy that pertains to it. The thread "Entitlements" was locked down due to its political nature. Yet several months ago the thread of "G.D. the Supreme Court" is 4 pages long and is still open! This is how freedom is lost, in baby steps! It starts on a board by limiting what is able to be discussed and shuting down debate and spreads from there! The board is set up to discuss AND debate things of Martial Arts nature, which in of itself can be political. We have seen flamers come and go, some get banned (not sure I agree with this anymore either) and others do not (this is not SPECIFICALLY directed to the FA board as I have seen it on other boards as well).

I can't disagree more with cord, the discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion is exactly how the USA began its birthing process, it took awhile, but the founders came to a conclusion and went on from there. This thread may also get locked down, but before the Moderator decides to do that just think to yourself, when will MY voice get shut down?! As ther board has become slower regarding Martial Arts topics, when a topic comes up, it should NOT be discarded for fear of where it may lead. If that is the way it is going to be (especially in the "General Discussion" forum), then it is no longer imteresting to visit, and that is where I am at now.The topics here have become very uninteresting. I rarely post and my visits are fewer. Maybe its me, but I just don't find coming to the board enjoyable anymore! I will continue to lurk, but not participate as much.

VDJ

I refuse to visit or be a big part of a board whose political and religious views are opposite of mine. I can argue for a while, but it wears me out.

Well said and I agree. You haven't seen me much on here in a long time,lol.

I refuse to visit or be a big part of a board whose political and religious views are opposite of mine. I can argue for a while, but it wears me out.

With respect Brian, this is precisely why the rules on religious and political discussion exist - so that people need not feel excluded, and can share their excellent martial art knowledge and experience in an environment devoid of unnecessary factors that focus on our differences, not our bond in the love of the arts.

If you think about it, the people on here that offered you heartfelt support and friendship during your troubles, are now the liberals and heathens you no longer feel inclined to interact with. That only came about because of the experiment to relax the rules on religion and politics

[ Yes, that's very true, but when I spoke my religious views I was mocked and attacked. I'm not putting myself out there for that anymore.

when the site got involved in politics and religion, the more liberal mods took that over. I'm not comfortable with that

I think I'd ban a WBC member on sight, just on general principle, and for the good of this site.

(they're known litigation baiters)

I think I'd ban a WBC member on sight, just on general principle, and for the good of this site.

(they're known litigation baiters)

Again, this is the problem with religious discussion, faith is so intrinsic to who we are, that to question someone's religion, seems to be to question the validity of the person themselves. You and I locked horns on this very subject, but it was certainly never my goal or intent to mock or attack you. You are someone I respect and like greatly.



And you must acknowledge that hardline, somewhat literal christian interperetation of life can put forward views on cultures, and orientations that present an unwelcoming environment for a majority of global internet users who may otherwise wish to share in the site.

Again, this highlights why religion and politics have been so heavily censored on the site - martial arts discussion is just that, and under the rules, a westboro baptist, a muslim, a homosexual and an atheist should be able to discuss their insight and passion for the arts on equal terms. That was the goal of the site when the rules were set.