Chuck Norris for president......of Texas?

Posted by: MattJ

Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/13/09 02:01 PM

He's ready to lead the secession from the union:

http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/03/1...-us-government/

"Washington DC Article: Chuck Norris claims thousands of right wing cell groups exist and will rebel against U.S. government by local DC Special Interests Examiner expert, Ron Moore. Speaking on the Glen Beck radio show, Mr. Norris promised to run for president of Texas, if "things get any worse." According to the martial artist, Texas would be the optimal leader in a secession from the US, claiming that Texas was not formally part of the union in the first place. A live telecast, "We Surround Them", is scheduled for March 13th, to protest the current state of affairs in America."



Apparently, Chuck is seceding from reality, too.

From the original Examiner link in the article:

"The call by some right wing leaders for rebellion and for the military to refuse the commander in chief’s orders is joined by Chuck Norris who claims that thousands of right wing cell groups have organized and are ready for a second American Revolution. During an appearance on the Glen Beck radio show he promised that if things get any worse from his point of view he may “run for president of Texas.” The martial artist/actor/activist claims that Texas was never formally a part of the United States in the first place and that if rebellion is to come through secession Texas would lead the way.

Today in his syndicated column on WorldNetDaily Norris reiterates the point: “That need may be a reality sooner than we think. If not me, someone someday may again be running for president of the Lone Star state, if the state of the union continues to turn into the enemy of the state.”

He continues; calling on a second American Revolution; “…we've bastardized the First Amendment, reinterpreted America's religious history and secularized our society until we ooze skepticism and circumvent religion on every level of public and private life.

How much more will Americans take? When will enough be enough? And, when that time comes, will our leaders finally listen or will history need to record a second American Revolution? We the people have the authority according to America's Declaration of Independence, which states: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…”

Norris claims that; “Thousands of cell groups will be united around the country in solidarity over the concerns for our nation.” The right wing cells will meet during a live telecast, "We Surround Them," on Friday March 13 at 5 p.m.

He closes with the words of Sam Houston followed by a plug for his next martial arts event.

“We view ourselves on the eve of battle."
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/15/09 09:59 AM

I think the issue of whether or not a state could succeed was settled back in the 19th century--it was, in part, what the Civil War was about. Several Southern states said, "we're going to succeed!" The North said, "no, you're not!" The North won the war. Case closed.

Anyway, thanks for this amusing post. Chuck has indeed gone off the deep end.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/15/09 08:08 PM

Not as far fetched as you libs might think.

Chuck is a regularly contributing author for Humanevents.com He is christian conservative and is quite wise and smart.

I'd vote for him in a heartbeat because I completely agree with his views and ideals.

Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/15/09 09:27 PM

Some small segment of the population may agree with you, BrianS. But it is a VERY small segment. If your own social network includes many people who think like Norris (and I have no idea if it does), views like his may seem more widespread then they really are. But I assure you, if he wants to foment a second American Revolution, he has his work cut out for him.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/15/09 09:55 PM

Quote:

But I assure you, if he wants to foment a second American Revolution, he has his work cut out for him.



Right, exactly. This has nothing to do with Chuck's conservative beliefs, but rather the crackpot idea that the United States needs to start separating itself.

Brian, you have to admit, that idea will almost certainly not happen. No one in their right mind would support it. Chuck can do many incredible things, LOL. But separating this country ain't one of 'em.
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/15/09 11:15 PM

My issue with the whole concept is that the people who claim to be "true" Americans, have no respect for the system of government in America.

Their chosen party had control of the house, the senate, and the Oval office and the "libs" as they call anyone who disagrees with them had to deal with it. But now that they have been voted out under the American system of Government, the same "true Americans" are ready to tear America apart.

Since when is intolerance to opposing views "American"?

This is not a post in support of any view, simply a response to those who would advocate the tearing apart of the United States of America.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:29 AM

Quote:

Some small segment of the population may agree with you, BrianS. But it is a VERY small segment. If your own social network includes many people who think like Norris (and I have no idea if it does), views like his may seem more widespread then they really are. But I assure you, if he wants to foment a second American Revolution, he has his work cut out for him.



I don't believe he is serious about running for pres of Texas. He was just making a point imo, a very valid point.

What proof do you have that a "VERY small" section of people agree with him?
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

But I assure you, if he wants to foment a second American Revolution, he has his work cut out for him.



Right, exactly. This has nothing to do with Chuck's conservative beliefs, but rather the crackpot idea that the United States needs to start separating itself.



It has EVERYTHING to do with his beliefs. The current administration is extreme left wing and completely against his(and mine) ideals both politically and morally. That's the whole reason for the article.

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Brian, you have to admit, that idea will almost certainly not happen. No one in their right mind would support it. Chuck can do many incredible things, LOL. But separating this country ain't one of 'em.



Probably won't happen. Lots of people in their right mind would support it though. Big government is not the answer to our problems. Government is FOR the people.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:36 AM

Quote:

My issue with the whole concept is that the people who claim to be "true" Americans, have no respect for the system of government in America.




Once again??? So, the government can do whatever it likes because it's the government?

Howcome I didn't see this kind of support for the last administration? Don't answer that....

Quote:

Their chosen party had control of the house, the senate, and the Oval office and the "libs" as they call anyone who disagrees with them had to deal with it. But now that they have been voted out under the American system of Government, the same "true Americans" are ready to tear America apart.

Since when is intolerance to opposing views "American"?

This is not a post in support of any view, simply a response to those who would advocate the tearing apart of the United States of America.



Intolerance is acceptable when our rights are violated, isn't it? The government is supposed to be for the people. Do you know what the aproval rate of congress is right now?

The powers of the government are well defined in the Constitution.

The 10th amendment is being crapped all over. Support the Constitution, not the government.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 03:16 AM



Quote:


THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS

Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.



Sec. 2. INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 04:02 AM

Quote:

Since when is intolerance to opposing views "American"?



After the 60 years you have just had, you are seriously going to ask that!?!?
Posted by: JasonM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 05:09 AM

Shoot, if Arnie can be governator why not Norris the Texanator aka President.
Posted by: JoelM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 09:04 AM

Just close the political thread already. These denegrate so quickly it's ridiculous.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 09:49 AM

It wasn't meant to be political. Ah well.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 11:55 AM

Excuse me, but how is a thread titled "Chuck Norris for President" not political?

And why does bringing politics into a thread automatically dirty or downgrade it? I thought we aspired to live in a democratic society--what kind of democracy declares political discussions off limits? If we do that, we might as well live in a dictatorship.
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 12:02 PM

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Probably won't happen. Lots of people in their right mind would support it though. Big government is not the answer to our problems. Government is FOR the people.



And BY the people, we don't fly in a board of judges from Kyrpton to run our government, we elect people from our population, fellow Americans to do it.

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Once again??? So, the government can do whatever it likes because it's the government?

Howcome I didn't see this kind of support for the last administration? Don't answer that....



No it does what system allows it to do, and if we the people do not like or agree, we have a system in which to challenge and over turn those things. A system that does NOT include the overthrow of the government by force and violence, which is what you seem to advocate.

In the last admin, you saw great public outcry. Many people were deeply offended by the policies. You throw around slogans like "big government" yet the last admin created the largest growth in size and spending AND centralized power maybe in history. There was some outcry from the right, but no where near what it would have been had a democrat been in office.

The point is ideology not facts on the ground drive the debate, and using slogans instead of making specific points does nothing but appeal to the lowest common denominator of a specific group, looking for a reason to be right.

Look, you call the people in Government Lefties, well actually they are much closer to centrist. If you want to meet some lefties I can spew some of their ideology and you would be forced to see, we are no where near that.

You mention how the current Admin offends you values? Which values? Specifics. Because at the end of the day there are a whole host of issues most reasonable Americans can come to an agreement on. There are issues we cannot, but instead of always framing the argument on the stuff we butt heads about, lets get to the stuff we agree on done, then worry about the other stuff.

The right offends my values, a war on science (teach creationism and deny climate change, leave big oil unchecked). Injecting government policy into personal moral family beliefs (see Terry Shivo and the entire right to life movement).

I can go on and on, but I don't advocate rounding up the right wing nut jobs and sticking them all in Texas. They won the elections, had the majority, I had to deal with it within the system.

Funny side note, the righties HATE the ACLU. Here is their charter:

"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country."

While they may do some wacky stuff, their whole existence is to protect that which you claim to hold so dear. But instead of engaging them, they are a punch line in the right wing world. The reason is the right uses the Constitution as means to enforce it's own ideas of what America should be, and are quick to discard it, when it no longer serves it purpose.

If you claim to love America, make it stronger, work for change. Place the principles of the country above your personal convictions.

And be specific.

(If this thread lasts 10 more minutes I will be shocked!)
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 12:27 PM

Quote:

Excuse me, but how is a thread titled "Chuck Norris for President" not political?



Because the that's not the title of the thread. President of TEXAS. Texas doesn't have a president. I didn't take it seriously, but whatever.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 01:10 PM

The thread deals with a hypothetical defection of Texas from the US. That is a political issue.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 01:44 PM

Whatever dude.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:01 PM

Cord, never ask an American to look back 60 years. In our political culture, if it did not happen last week, it never happened.
Posted by: JasonM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:01 PM

I saw it as fun. Chucky for Pres of Texas? c'mon..Who would take the seriously? hhmmm
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:23 PM

Quote:

I saw it as fun. Chucky for Pres of Texas? c'mon..Who would take the seriously? hhmmm




Chuck has 700 guns on his Ranch, not for hunting (his words).

Of the 300 Million people, they may be a very small % but so is the Evangelical Right, and look at the influence they wield.

Crazy, sure but you can't let these ideas gain momentum. Crowd Psychology is a very strange thing, the very fact that a fair and balanced news organization (tongue firmly in cheek) would air this kind of political discourse, gives it a validity it would never get on it's own.

Not everyone deserves a seat at the table, IMO.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 02:42 PM

I do not think the idea of someone like Chuck Norris running for president is far fetched at all. Someone on this thread already mentioned Arnold Schwarzenegger. To his name I would add Jesse Ventura and Mike Huckabee, among others.

Granted, Chuck's chances today might not be as great as in the recent past. While the God, Guts, and Guns crowd is still a big demographic, their political heydey seems to have past. This is not surprising. With the economy in free fall, people are less apt to perk up their ears when some right-wing crackpot starts yelling, "Look out--queers!"

Still, right-wingers have gone far by pandering to fear, hate and ignornace and I don't expect them to stop now. After all, what else have they got? Their economic policies been a disaster--the US now has the smallest middle class of any developed country. Their foreign policy has landed us in not one but two quagmires. They are not FOR anything that might actually make peoples lives better. The only thing way conservatives have ever succeeded in winning a mass base is by appealing to bigotry, fear, and superstition.
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 03:18 PM

Quote:

They are not FOR anything that might actually make peoples lives better. The only thing way conservatives have ever succeeded in winning a mass base is by appealing to bigotry, fear, and superstition.



OWWW! Is that what it feels like when someone hits the nail on the head?



IN OTHER NEWS!

President Obama is attempting to block the bonus payouts at AIG:

Quote:

Obama: "All across the country, there are people who work hard and meet their responsibilities every day, without the benefit of government bailouts or multimillion-dollar bonuses. And all they ask is that everyone, from Main Street to Wall Street to Washington, play by the same rules."

"This isn't just a matter of dollars and cents," he added. "It's about our fundamental values."
Posted by: JoelM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 07:12 PM

Quote:

And why does bringing politics into a thread automatically dirty or downgrade it? I thought we aspired to live in a democratic society--what kind of democracy declares political discussions off limits? If we do that, we might as well live in a dictatorship.



Fightingarts.com is not a democracy, it is not a nation, it is a website supervised by moderators with members from across the world, not just the USA.
The rules explicitly say that political discussions are not allowed.
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15907012

Quote:

Folks, here is long awaited Off-topic forum. Please be aware that all the same rules from the other forums apply.
This means:

* no religion
* no politics
* no racism/sexism
* no trolling




It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 07:13 PM

BWAHAHAHA!! I called this when I moved it from the Martial Talk forum- I knew it would all get heavy.

Look, most importantly, Texas will not set itself up as a country within a country (like the Vatican but with chewing tobacco), because it simply does not have the resources or power to operate autonomously. The new currency would have no leverage and the trade agreements necessary would just cripple the insurgency in its infancy.

That being said, and discounting the political hats involved, the situation does make one evaluate how far government and constitution have parted company.

Now I know the idea is that anyone can run for government- but that is just it, an idea.
The reality is that you need a lot of money,not a lot of good ideas, to get in power. Its all spin and showbiz, not substance.

The very irony is that the USA today have become what they sought to free themselves from. Britain was a land where the privelidged held sway over the massess, who served their interest in a quest for global influence and wealth, and now the USA have inherited that mantle.

When they put an expenditure cap on election campaigns, and they set up a neutral fund that can be allocated to candidates from lower classes, who have ideas of merit, and when they spend more money on home issues than strategic involvement in far away lands, you can tell me I am wrong.

Hell, I would settle for them dealing with Mugabe with the same fervour that they did Saddam. Of course, they have yet to find oil in Zimbabwe, so he is safe.

God I am in a grouchy mood!? note to self: must hit things tomorrow.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 07:58 PM

Quote:

I do not think the idea of someone like Chuck Norris running for president is far fetched at all. Someone on this thread already mentioned Arnold Schwarzenegger. To his name I would add Jesse Ventura and Mike Huckabee, among others.



I would vote for him, seriously.

Quote:

Granted, Chuck's chances today might not be as great as in the recent past. While the God, Guts, and Guns crowd is still a big demographic, their political heydey seems to have past. This is not surprising. With the economy in free fall, people are less apt to perk up their ears when some right-wing crackpot starts yelling, "Look out--queers!"



That's not a fair assertion there bud. You are painting with an awful broad stroke.
Guns are a second amendment right despite what the left wants. Hitler took away the guns first too. Take guns out of the picture and you can control the population. The ball is already rolling wit the current government.

Queers? Who said anything about homosexuality? I don't agree with homosexuality because I follow the Bible. The Bible also teaches LOVE and forgiveness. Sin is sin and homosexuality is a sin, hate is a sin as well. Those who hate in the name of the 'right' or christianity are not christians noe are they right.



Quote:

Still, right-wingers have gone far by pandering to fear, hate and ignornace and I don't expect them to stop now. After all, what else have they got?
Quote:



I just want my rights guranteed by the constitution. Hate and ignorance has never been a part of MY agenda and it's certainly not a part of Chuck Norriss'.

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Their economic policies been a disaster--the US now has the smallest middle class of any developed country. Their foreign policy has landed us in not one but two quagmires.



I can't speak for anyone's economic policies. Blame is thrown all over on that one.

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They are not FOR anything that might actually make peoples lives better. The only thing way conservatives have ever succeeded in winning a mass base is by appealing to bigotry, fear, and superstition.



That is completely untrue. Conservatives stand for morals and values. We value the unborn, families, and everyone's right to believe what they want as long as it doesn't infringe another's rights.

I'm not that involved in politics until I see my rights being violated or Gods laws being trampled. I have rest in knowing HE is in control.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 08:08 PM

Quote:

BWAHAHAHA!! I called this when I moved it from the Martial Talk forum- I knew it would all get heavy.



Troublemaker!!

Quote:

Look, most importantly, Texas will not set itself up as a country within a country (like the Vatican but with chewing tobacco), because it simply does not have the resources or power to operate autonomously. The new currency would have no leverage and the trade agreements necessary would just cripple the insurgency in its infancy.



Weeelllllll......

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That being said, and discounting the political hats involved, the situation does make one evaluate how far government and constitution have parted company.



THAT is exactly the point Chuck is trying to make!! This is a country of the constitution not of the government. We cannot allow the government to get out of control and to put its hands in every aspect of our lives.

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Now I know the idea is that anyone can run for government- but that is just it, an idea.
The reality is that you need a lot of money,not a lot of good ideas, to get in power. Its all spin and showbiz, not substance.


.
The current administration with its 'rockstar' status is proof of that

Quote:

The very irony is that the USA today have become what they sought to free themselves from. Britain was a land where the privelidged held sway over the massess, who served their interest in a quest for global influence and wealth, and now the USA have inherited that mantle.



And that's exactly what we DON'T need. Socialism is not a free America.

Quote:

When they put an expenditure cap on election campaigns, and they set up a neutral fund that can be allocated to candidates from lower classes, who have ideas of merit, and when they spend more money on home issues than strategic involvement in far away lands, you can tell me I am wrong.



I hope and pray.......

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Hell, I would settle for them dealing with Mugabe with the same fervour that they did Saddam. Of course, they have yet to find oil in Zimbabwe, so he is safe.

God I am in a grouchy mood!? note to self: must hit things tomorrow.



What? I have to hit things EVERYDAY!!!
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 09:12 PM

Quote:

The current administration with its 'rockstar' status is proof of that



And the last President was what? Pot/Kettle.

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And that's exactly what we DON'T need. Socialism is not a free America.



OK and how do you equate that with Socialism exactly? The current system allows those with power, money and influence, to gain more power, money and influence. Eventually the number of haves vs. the have nots will be so small, the people will finally revolt...it's happen 1000's of times.

Socialism has a role, the military is the largest socialist organization in history, are you against the military? How about you local fireman, he is by definition part of a socialist organization.

It's the one mindedness of the politics that is absurd and unworkable, I said earlier, be specific, don't use slogans.

Cord mentioned having a neutral pool of money, so everyone with ideas has a shot. You agreed. That's socialism! And that's bad socialism by the way. Someone's ability accumulate funding should not be held against them. There need to be a solution but removing money in a market driven society is not it.

But we do need a better vetting system.

Quote:

Now I know the idea is that anyone can run for government- but that is just it, an idea.



Actually that's not quite accurate, if you are willing to start small, and work you way up (like a real profession) anyone can run for government and have. They just need to make friends along the way, and therein lies the rub.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 11:06 PM

Quote:

And the last President was what? Pot/Kettle.




The latter excuses the present?

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OK and how do you equate that with Socialism exactly? The current system allows those with power, money and influence, to gain more power, money and influence. Eventually the number of haves vs. the have nots will be so small, the people will finally revolt...it's happen 1000's of times.




I work hard and I want to choose what I do with my money. I don't want the government telling me what charities and programs I have to support. Tax money is different from this,ofcourse. The government in control can use our taxes, and I hope they use it fittingly.

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Socialism has a role, the military is the largest socialist organization in history, are you against the military? How about you local fireman, he is by definition part of a socialist organization.




I'm a veteran so what do you think? I CHOSE to join the military. I was well aware of how they run things. I am now a civilian and I don't want to go by military or socialistic rules/policies.

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It's the one mindedness of the politics that is absurd and unworkable, I said earlier, be specific, don't use slogans.




I like slogans and I'll use them as I please, thanks!

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Cord mentioned having a neutral pool of money, so everyone with ideas has a shot. You agreed. That's socialism! And that's bad socialism by the way. Someone's ability accumulate funding should not be held against them. There need to be a solution but removing money in a market driven society is not it




So, it's okay that Obama agreed to one set of rules and then broke them? Is it okay that he used more than three times as much money for his campaign than McCain.(not than I'm a McCain fan either)

Quote:

Actually that's not quite accurate, if you are willing to start small, and work you way up (like a real profession) anyone can run for government and have. They just need to make friends along the way, and therein lies the rub.



Take that up with Cord, he said that.

No matter what. I hope and pray that this country will get on the right track, morally, politically, and economically. I believe the latter follow the former.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/16/09 11:10 PM

Deception at Core of Obama Plans
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- Forget the pork. Forget the waste. Forget the 8,570 earmarks in a bill supported by a president who poses as the scourge of earmarks. Forget the "$2 trillion dollars in savings" that "we have already identified," $1.6 trillion of which President Obama's budget director later admits is the "savings" of not continuing the surge in Iraq until 2019 -- 11 years after George Bush ended it, and eight years after even Bush would have had us out of Iraq completely.

Forget all of this. This is run-of-the-mill budget trickery. True, Obama's tricks come festooned with strings of zeros tacked onto the end. But that's a matter of scale, not principle.

All presidents do that. But few undertake the kind of brazen deception at the heart of Obama's radically transformative economic plan, a rhetorical sleight of hand so smoothly offered that few noticed.

The logic of Obama's address to Congress went like this:

"Our economy did not fall into decline overnight," he averred. Indeed, it all began before the housing crisis. What did we do wrong? We are paying for past sins in three principal areas: energy, health care, and education -- importing too much oil and not finding new sources of energy (as in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Outer Continental Shelf?), not reforming health care, and tolerating too many bad schools.

The "day of reckoning" has now arrived. And because "it is only by understanding how we arrived at this moment that we'll be able to lift ourselves out of this predicament," Obama has come to redeem us with his far-seeing program of universal, heavily nationalized health care; a cap-and-trade tax on energy; and a major federalization of education with universal access to college as the goal.

Amazing. As an explanation of our current economic difficulties, this is total fantasy. As a cure for rapidly growing joblessness, a massive destruction of wealth, a deepening worldwide recession, this is perhaps the greatest non sequitur ever foisted upon the American people.

At the very center of our economic near-depression is a credit bubble, a housing collapse and a systemic failure of the entire banking system. One can come up with a host of causes: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pushed by Washington (and greed) into improvident loans, corrupted bond-ratings agencies, insufficient regulation of new and exotic debt instruments, the easy money policy of Alan Greenspan's Fed, irresponsible bankers pushing (and then unloading in packaged loan instruments) highly dubious mortgages, greedy house-flippers, deceitful homebuyers.

The list is long. But the list of causes of the collapse of the financial system does not include the absence of universal health care, let alone of computerized medical records. Nor the absence of an industry-killing cap-and-trade carbon levy. Nor the lack of college graduates. Indeed, one could perversely make the case that, if anything, the proliferation of overeducated, Gucci-wearing, smart-ass MBAs inventing ever more sophisticated and opaque mathematical models and debt instruments helped get us into this credit catastrophe in the first place.

And yet with our financial house on fire, Obama makes clear both in his speech and his budget that the essence of his presidency will be the transformation of health care, education and energy. Four months after winning the election, six weeks after his swearing in, Obama has yet to unveil a plan to deal with the banking crisis.

What's going on? "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," said Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. "This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before."

Things. Now we know what they are. The markets' recent precipitous decline is a reaction not just to the absence of any plausible bank rescue plan, but also to the suspicion that Obama sees the continuing financial crisis as usefully creating the psychological conditions -- the sense of crisis bordering on fear-itself panic -- for enacting his "Big Bang" agenda to federalize and/or socialize health care, education and energy, the commanding heights of post-industrial society.

Clever politics, but intellectually dishonest to the core. Health, education and energy -- worthy and weighty as they may be -- are not the cause of our financial collapse. And they are not the cure. The fraudulent claim that they are both cause and cure is the rhetorical device by which an ambitious president intends to enact the most radical agenda of social transformation seen in our lifetime.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 03:24 AM

Guys, I am a pagan (Brian, thats a 'heathen' to you ), and I would not want my observations to be used in defence of either side of the coin in your political system.

The trouble is that, as a young country, you are not allowing yourselves to evolve and adapt to your problems because the consitution is being interperated, abused, and misread by every group with a voice.

I would go further, and suggest that, globally, the constitution is nowhere near as big a creation as 'Windows'. Now, when Microsoft created windows, they didnt have the arrogance to assert that it could not be improved upon. They were proud of it, but did not make it untouchable, rather, they encouraged people to tell them its weakspots, and responded to feedback to improve it and keep it up to the task of dealing with modern requirements.

The constitution is not a religious script (and dont even get me started on those ), it is the result of a few powerful men's board meeting, and as such, is not perfect.

In Britain we have had Henry's split from Rome, Cromwell's New Model Army, a second, completely different Monarchy, an industrial revolution, and emancipation of the lower classes, and plenty in between.

In that time laws, and rights, and policies have changed beyond recognition.

Did you know, that still on the statutes, from feudal times, it is (technically) legal to shoot a welshman by longbow, if found within the City walls of Chester after dark?

Thats crazy right? But that law was pefectly reasonable for the time it was written.

If you dont allow for laws to evolve for the society they cater for, then they become irrelevant, and they get ignored, and society becomes more accepting, and complicit, in, the breaking of the laws of the land.

Now my point as it relates to the US, is that right now, 'Democracy' involves voting for one of two parties, based on either a)personality of the salesman or b)which you disagree with the least. Thats freedom?

Also, the fervour with which you all put your store in the potential new captains is hilarious, they are just new operators of the same system, and they have their hands tied by the rules they inherit, making either side incapable of doing what is needed to fix the errors.

Britain is no better, but its worth noting that we have had several more re-boots and operating system upgrades than you, and still havent got it right, so what chance have you got running on your beta programme?
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 07:32 AM

Brian -

Man, you know I love you like a brother, but I definitley disagree with some of the points here.

I don't think it's useful for the right to point out anything about Rahm Emmanuel. Is he slimy? Probably. But the left can just as easily point at D1ck Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, etc. Probably best not to point fingers, as we'll all end up pointing at each other.

I do find it ironic that the far-right is ready to call quits on the current administration after less than 3 months (!!!), when we were implored to give time and more time to the policies of the last one.

I also find it somewhat hypocritical of the far-right to get so orthodox about the constitution, when *they* have tried to make MANY changes to it themselves. Remember flag-burning? Gay marriage? Abortion? Etc. Can't have it both ways, bro.

Time to come together as a country, and stop all the whining.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 08:51 AM

Hey Matt,

We don't have to agree on things, it's ok by me.

We are all entitled to our point of views.

I think one thing we can agree on is we don't need to tolerate the intolerant no matter what side they are on.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 09:20 AM

Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 10:37 AM

Chuck for President of the USA not just Texas, he'd definately kick Drugs out of America for good

Osu

Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/17/09 12:16 PM

Quote:

Chuck for President of the USA not just Texas, he'd definately kick Drugs out of America for good



The trouble is that Chuck Norris's Kick is so powerful, that the drugs would travel around the world, only to lose velocity right back in the USA. Truly a viscious circle.
Posted by: TheCrab

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/18/09 11:53 AM

I bought 2 chuck norris shirts today, one has a picture of a cheesegrater and says chuck norris toilet paper below it.
The other one has a picture of chuck norris and below it just says "go [censored] yourself"

truly epic humor
Posted by: JoelM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/18/09 02:21 PM

It's more stupid than funny to me. But apparently we have different senses of humor.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/18/09 03:15 PM

I think the cheese-grater thing is pretty funny, actually.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/18/09 05:04 PM

It is clear, but misguided. Here's why:

1) No religion? This just barely passes muster, but only because all religious claims are equally impossible to prove. How can one debate something for which no evidence exists?

2) No racism/sexism? This makes sense. Racist and sexist statements are meant to bully or provoke people. They add nothing of value to any debate.

3) No trolling. I am a little uneasy about this one because "trolling" is often in the eye of the beholder. That said, if you mean kicking out people with no other goal that to annoy others, I am all for it.

4) No poltics? This is just absurd. Talking politics is so basic to democratic discourse it is enshrined in the First Amendment. Are the moderators at fightingarts.com wiser than the founding fathers? I really doubt it.

The real issue here is a peculiar American obsession with avoiding conflict at all costs, even if doing so leaves critical issues unresolved. Unfortunately, when the general public becomes politically disengaged, that leaves an open field for elites and special interests to have their way. I hoped this website wanted to fight this trend, not capitulate to it. Guess I was wrong.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/18/09 05:30 PM

Quote:

4) No poltics? This is just absurd. Talking politics is so basic to democratic discourse it is enshrined in the First Amendment. Are the moderators at fightingarts.com wiser than the founding fathers? I really doubt it.



Political arguments are very similar to religious arguments, and history shows that politics and religion are inseparable. You see, for every person willing to holler about a certain political philosophy, there is a country, or a time in history, that shows that that philosophy didnt/doesnt work

Case in point, you want this forum to uphold your 1st amendment 'rights', yet this forum is not american, it is part of the world wide web, and other countries are no better, or worse off than you guys, by living by different rules. The recession is global, and is affecting everyone from the Right wing governments of France and Italy, through Communist China, to the land of the free.
What is to argue? None of the structures or systems that we have come up with are the answer.

Am I wiser than the founding fathers? I am less arrogant, as I dont think I can speak for a nation, but outside that, they were just people, and so I am neither superior, or inferior to them.

You dont need superior wisdom to get power, you just need to want power enough to get it.

Quote:

The real issue here is a peculiar American obsession with avoiding conflict at all costs



Can I mention your last 60 years again?

Quote:

Unfortunately, when the general public becomes politically disengaged, that leaves an open field for elites and special interests to have their way.



All political systems rely on courting the elite, while convincing the massess that they are doing otherwise.
The reason for the publics loss of interest today is that our media awareness and level of access to info is massive compared to the past, and we are no longer so easily fooled into believing the con.

Quote:

I hoped this website wanted to fight this trend, not capitulate to it. Guess I was wrong.



Has this thread been locked? Have your posts been edited or censored? Or are you just hearing opinions you disagree with?
Thats the price of freedom, or so I am told.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 12:24 AM

Cord, there are those for whom politics is religion. But they are the minority, I am not among them.

Unlike religious ideas, political statements, opinions, and policies are subject to fact checking and rational analysis. Political debates may not result in neat answers but they are still fruitful.

I am indeed familiar with the last 60 years of US history. However, I was not referring to national policy but a cultural trend that has gained ground in the US over the last generation or more. Americans today often feel keeping people happy is more important than telling them the truth.

Recently, British ex-pat Hugh Laurie was aksed what he missed most about life in the UK. His answer: "The buildings and the cruelty." His point was that in the UK, being nice was not the ultimate goal of all human interaction. If someone is being an ass, it is GOOD thing to say so, so long as you can back up your reasoning.

THis thread has not been locked down yet, but calls for it to be locked down have already sounded. I have seen many threads on here locked down prematurely (at least in my judgement) in order to prserve this idiotic niceness.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 03:32 AM

What were we talking about?

Crab,

I have several CN t-shirts.

One where he is doing a flying sidekick on a deer reads: Extreme hunting

One says "Chuck does all my stunts" with a character of him.

One says "If you can see CN, he can see you, if you cannor see him you may only be seconds away from death.

I can't remember the other three right now.

However, None of them are offensive to anyone including Cuck Norris. That's just wrong, period.
Posted by: JoelM

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 09:01 AM

Fileboy, you just don't get it. This forum has NOTHING to do with a democracy, America, or the First Amendment. This website is none of the above. It is a privately owned website. One of the rules of this private website is no politics. End of discussion.

No politics is a rule that has been in this forum for a long time and has been enforced up until recently. And now is seems only after an arguement has gotten way out of hand does a political thread get locked.

Quote:

The real issue here is a peculiar American obsession with avoiding conflict at all costs


No, the real issue at hand is the rules of the forum. Period. Get off of your American high horse and use your brain.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 11:06 AM

You do realise we are all b1tching on a thread that revolves around Chuck Norris declaring independance from the US, and starting the Kingdom of Chuckland.

That is the reason political discussion is largely frowned upon on here - because it ends up being humourless and dumb as a bag of hammers.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 01:33 PM

Well, I'll admit the idea of Chuck Norris leading a successful campaign to create Chuckand is far-fetched. But to say that means all political threads are a bad idea? Sorry, but that just doesn't follow.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 01:44 PM

Let me ask you this.

Based on the fact that our political beliefs tend to be ingrained at an early age through exposure to family opinion, and personal experience of the environment we grow up in; could any post, by me, or by anyone else on this forum, that contradicted your view of the world, make you re-think your whole idealogical system?

Or, no matter how in depth such arguments get, and no matter how eloquently the posts may be on both sides; are such threads merely, in essence, post after post saying 'NO, I AM RIGHT!'

Thats the reason such threads are on such a short leash - they lead to nothing but acrimony where there need be none.

Its not about being nice for nice's sake, its about not rowing over that which cannot be solved other than in agreeing to disagree.

We can all do that without the b1tching to get us to that point.
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 03:17 PM

What type of card will you get in Chuckland, the US have a Green Card will Chuckland have a Camo card
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 03:25 PM

Cord,

The short answer to your question is yes.

My political beliefs have changed a great deal over the course of my lifetime, from moderate right in my youth to far left today. These changes have come about as a result of my life experiences, my education, and my contact with others. Your (apparent) belief that political views are carved in stone is just wrong.

We've all met people who insist on being right at all costs. But these folks are unable to seperate their ideas from their identity. Their beliefs about religion, politics, gender relations, etc are so bound up with who they feel they are they regard all challenges to their beliefs as personal assults. This is pure idiocy, and letting people like this think whatever they like is the WORST possible strategy we can take. People die because of it--literally.

For example, the prevelance of bellicose, love-it-or-leave-it patriotism in the US has made it very, very easy for the US government to mete out horrific levels violence all over the world. You are well aware of this: you proved it when you asked me to review the last 60 years of US history. Please don't ask my to just keep my mouth shut.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/19/09 04:31 PM

Quote:

Cord,

The short answer to your question is yes.

My political beliefs have changed a great deal over the course of my lifetime, from moderate right in my youth to far left today. These changes have come about as a result of my life experiences, my education, and my contact with others. Your (apparent) belief that political views are carved in stone is just wrong.



I am not saying that they are carved in stone, I am saying that words on a screen, typed by someone you have no first had, real knowledge of, are unlikely to be the thing that triggers any change in your beliefs.

Now if you meet someone, and get to know them, and you come to respect them, then their opinions, then the 4 am 'put the world to rights' discussions may well carry more weight, and open your mind to a new perspective.

An internet forum is a largely anonymous thing- take me for example - over 9000 posts, a person of stromg opinion, who will gladly put them to the test. But hardly anyone on here knows what I look like, or has had any contact with me outside of this forum. I have spoken in person to Dereck, Joel is a facebook friend, and i have swapped emails with many more, but, to a greater extent, the many thousands of things that make me 'me' are a mystery to all on here.

With this in mind, why would I carry any influence with anyone on world views on here?

So you see, I believe that political discussion can be fruitful, I just dont think that political discussion on a martial arts forum can be anything other than an academic exercise in mutual frustration.

I have yet to see any political thread on here that has content to challenge my assertion.

Quote:

Please don't ask my to just keep my mouth shut.



Again, you have not been censored and this thread has been given room to run its course, but as it degenerates into purility, it will be locked, and the 'no politics' rules will be enforced.

At that point, feel free to invite those involved to take it to PM, or even join up to a forum expressley for political debate - just dont get upset if they lock your thread about kata
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/21/09 02:32 PM

Cord,

You make a good point: the internet being what it is, credibility is difficult to establish. I also agree forming (or changing) one's political perspective is a long, difficult prcoess, and few people are likely to be completely turned around by what they see posted on a chat board.

But so what? Changing a person's views in a single conversation, whether that conversation takes place face to face or online, is too ambitious and not really the goal. The goal is to plant seeds of doubt, to get people to question a little--in short, to help along the long, difficult process in some small way. A message board can serve that purpose.

I have no problem with those who avoid political discussions out of some kind of infrmal consensus. If no one brings it up, it will not be discussed. But to ban such discussions outright, to essentially put them in the same category as religious preaching or hate-mongering, is unfair.

And before I forget: thanks the moderators for letting thiss discussion go on.
Posted by: Kimo2007

Re: Chuck Norris for president......of Texas? - 03/21/09 03:42 PM

The more I read Cord's posts the smarter he gets. Make no mistake, you are still a jackass, you have just proven to be able to back it up

So to the point, you never know who you will influence and how on a forum like this, but I will say on more then one occasion I have been given a reason to pause, and think about things in a different light, directly because of something I have read on this forum.

It's why I am still here, and why I will lend my sage advice to those ready to understand it.

Politics is important, and it intersects all walks of life. I am glad the site has allowed the rules to be bent, lets face it there is not much on the MA subject not already covered. So lets allow this to be a diversion until a legit MA thread comes up.

On that note, I have just made a dramatic change in my training, something I will post soon and something that came to be directly because of Cord and John.

More to come~!