An out of TKD experience

Posted by: tkd_high_green

An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 01:14 PM

On Monday, I started teaching for the spring semester at my local community college. It's been almost a year since I've taught there because the fall class didn't run. As such, my only teaching experience, since I earned my black belt has been at my tkd school.

Anyway, at the end of class, as they were leaving, one of the students said "Have a good night Laura" and for some reason I instantly felt annoyed, but I couldn't figure out why.

Then when another student said the same thing, I realized what it was. One of the policies at our school is to use proper courtesy, Yes Sir/Ma'am and referring to instructors and black belts by their last name. As an assistant instructor, it is my responsibility to enforce that behavior. When the second student called me by my first name, I caught myself before instinctively going "Thats Ms...! 10 push-ups!"

For some reason, I don't think I'm allowed to make my college students do pushups...

Laura
Posted by: harlan

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 01:19 PM

'Flexibility' doesn't just apply to the body. The mind needs to stay that way as well to keep learning.

Funny. The first day I started MA, I had no clue what was proper...and asked my teacher, 'What do I call you?' I expected to hear 'sensei'.

He must have found it funny, because he smiled and said, 'Call me Bill. Not big on formality.'
Posted by: student_of_life

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 01:26 PM

In my expirence, punishing an adult with physical work isn't a good way to encourage them. Some people take it poorly and it may effect attendance (might, might not). It's your class so it's all up to you, but different people need to be presented material in different ways, and while i use push up's and squats and all sorts of demonic things to teach the children classes proper behaviour, i find i get a better response out of adults when you explain things so they can see.
Posted by: clmibb

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 02:04 PM

I think I'd just go over policies in the next class. You are their teacher. They wouldn't leave their biology class and say, "Bye Chris! See you Wednesday. Hey, can I get an extention for my homework? My grandmother's in the hospital and I'm having a hard time keeping my head on straight." No! He would have been refered to as Dr. Smith. Ask your instructor how he has handled similar situations in the past.

Casey
Posted by: Dereck

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 03:01 PM

I figure if no precedent was set up when they all came in as to what is expected then you cannot punish anybody for not knowing.

In our school we are formal but we use first names and it is followed by Ma'am or Sir; even the Instructor. If you don't know somebody's name then you just use the Ma'am or Sir; makes it easier then remember names let alone last names which can be much more difficult especially with some people's pronunciations.

Now the thing is, is this teaching formal? If it is then set a precedent immediately so that things are followed. If it is not so formal then I wouldn't get hung up on stuff like this. Just be careful, those people joining may not be in it for the formality and you have to take that into consideration. Review everything thoroughly and then make the decision and then stand by it and then enforce it.
Posted by: tkd_high_green

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 04:24 PM

It's true, there was no precedent set up. I didn't introduce myself as Ms ..., nor did I expect them to call me by my last name. Until a year ago, I'd never even had anyone refer to me by my last name.

I was just so surprised and confused by my initial reaction to an otherwise normal occurrence until I realized that I had been so conditioned by having to correct forgetful children all the time. I honestly couldn't figure out why I felt uncomfortable with one of my students saying "Have a good night Laura"

Like having someone say "hi" and instead of replying with another "hi" you drop into a fighting stance and ki-up.

Laura
Posted by: BrianS

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 05:18 PM

Sounds like a case of the "bighead" syndrome.

Knowing full well that some of your students could kick your ass, maybe you should show them proper "RESPECT!" blackbelt ma'am.
Posted by: tkd_high_green

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 06:06 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a case of the "bighead" syndrome.



Nope, Adult Medium. Although it could be swollen, haven't checked lately.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/30/08 06:16 PM

Posted by: BrianS

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 01:00 AM

I'm talking about the need for us to feel superior because of some belt around our waist. Wouldn't you feel foolish if a mere whitebelt whooped your ass infront of the whole class?

Better be sure of your abilities before you are sure you need titles.
As an instructor I don't need a title. I let the students call me what they are comfortable with as long as they are respectful about it and I show them the same respect.
BTW, my instructors never felt the need to be called sensei or master, infact, they called me Mr.Stone. Hmmmmm....
Posted by: trevek

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 04:38 AM

I think where it can be a problem is with junior grades/younger students not recognising the need for distance with an instructor/assistant. The familiarty could lead to a slight lapse of discipline at a time when it is needed.

Funny thing was that when I was a guest of one club (not even the same assoc) one of the red belts called me "Sir" from the outset and I wasn't even assisting... I was a Joe from the street! It felt weird.
Posted by: harlan

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 07:58 AM

Hasn't anyone ever been at the supermarket...and run across someone they know really well elsewhere...but for the life you...can't 'place the face' or 'find the name'? I have two jobs, and when answering the phone...have to take a minute to recall the proper greeting. Think about it...if you ran across one your teachers in the deli line...would you address him as 'sensei'?

It's all about context. As an anthropology student, I found it difficult to adjust to the informality of the instructors. It was 'just Ralph, please'...and with my old-fashioned German upbringing...I wanted to use a double address...like 'Herr Doctor'. I have to keep remembering...'hard soft'...be flexible; that 'uncomfortableness' thing is good...makes us look at our assumptions.
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 10:51 AM

Hello Laura:

Once upon a time when I was single, I took lots of night school classes, maybe 20-25 over time . For grins and giggles I once took a SD class with a ~highly regarded~ local instructor (according to the martial arts community). I was a.... brown belt at the time I guess...

We were all in sweats, myself, another man and many, many ladies looking for an interesting activity, wanting to explore self protection. The teacher was also dressed in casual sweats, gave a short talk, goals, experience, etc.

Then he became an obnoxious, ridicilously pompass jerk and DEMANDED that we call him SENSEI

Demanded we bow to him after using that word,
after leaving the room,
always stepping on the mat,
when he merely walked by...
and say osssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss (of course)


We were not there to learn his self-stimulation (sic. superflous) empty rituals. IMHO we need to be very, very careful how we present certain protocols. Done badly, and they become offensive, real turn offs. If he was not so earnest he would have been a great substitute for the "Napolean Dynamite" Rexkwando characture, or the Kreese characture of "Karate Kid" fame.

IMHV-fwiw, you missed your only chance on the first day. You want it formal, you'll have to be ultra formal regardless of what they do or do not... perhaps addressing them as Maam, and sir might rub off, but I would not count on it... Ms. Thomas, Mr. Johnson...

Jeff
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 11:19 AM

I assume you were teaching TKD at your local community college; it was not very clear at the beginning of your post.

Frankly, the idea of an adult ordering another adults to do push ups is pretty absurd, unless you happen to be in the army. I am paying MY hard earned money for instruction and YOU are going to order me to do push ups? Think again.
Posted by: tkd_high_green

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 11:45 AM

I'm glad to see at least one person got what happened. Thanks harlan!

The class I am teaching is a c++ computer programming course, so of course pushups would be completely inappropriate. In addition to the fact that I didn't request, require, or expect these students to call me by my last name.

At tkd, I primarily teach younger students (8 - 14 year olds) so for them, reinforcing proper behavior and courtesy is important and part of the package.

I was highly surprised that I would have any kind of reaction to my c++ students calling me by my first name, and then to have to catch myself so as to not give them the expected TKD response to that behavior.
Posted by: Spade

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 11:46 AM

When I was 14 I had just started taking Tae Kwon Doe.


My parents never raised me to say "Sir" or "Ma'am" and my mother in particular disagreed with me saying it at all.

So while I was in class, my instructor asked me something, I replied with "yes" and he correct me, his exact words being:

"You need to say Yes Sir, especially since your a teenager".

I was always a good kid, and this statement was just insulting. Later that same month I ended up getting knocked out during some military fellows black belt test where he slammed me on the ground.

I left that Dojo.


I currently take Yoshukai, my yoshukai instructor informed me "while talking to someone else in the dojo, use yes sir/ma'am, or osu, just show respect to everyone, they'll do the same for you"

His a real sensible guy, and I had no problems with this.


I'll go ahead and make a point though, even when I was a kid
life had already thrown some challenges my way, and to be belittled by someone because I fit a certain age bracket, or in your example, for you to want me to submit to you because you wear a darker colored belt, I just find to be asinine.

I'm sure you don't mean to be condescending, and like you already said it was just a conditioned response from your dojo, but these are adults, all the fellow did was wish you a good night
Posted by: Dereck

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 12:46 PM

I think Laura that people when reading your original post especially after reading in the title of the thread that you were teaching TKD at community college and not computer programming. Whole big difference and changes the context of the thread.

What you were talking about was a conditioning of a sort that you were used to due to your TKD teaching. In that case I don't think you care really much what they call you as a teacher and that you were only expressing something you felt and not what you expected. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 12:53 PM

Quote:

Hasn't anyone ever been at the supermarket...and run across someone they know really well elsewhere...but for the life you...can't 'place the face' or 'find the name'? I have two jobs, and when answering the phone...have to take a minute to recall the proper greeting. Think about it...if you ran across one your teachers in the deli line...would you address him as 'sensei'?



In public I do see many of the people that train at my school whether it be adults I train with or juniors or children that I don't but know who they are from being there frequently and as long. I am a very recognizable person in our school so a lot of people will see me and we are conditioned still in public to be respectful and I have bowed and called a person ma'am or sir and have had it done to me. I see my Instructor outside of our school in fact I motorbike with him and his wife (she's also an Instructor). I still refer to them as their first names followed by ma'am or sir; it is a conditioning thing and I get it from them as well.

The thing is we may be friends outside of the school but that friendship doesn't cross any big lines and the Instructor/Student still exists. However when I introduce him to others I only refer to them by his first name as they are not students and they shouldn't have to refer to him as anything else; and vise versa.
Posted by: harlan

Re: An out of TKD experience - 01/31/08 01:01 PM

Yes...you point out the conditioning aspect and the context. I once went to my teacher's house, and found myself automatically bowing to his wife as I came through the door. Very embarrassing.