Uniforms & Consequences

Posted by: JMWcorwin

Uniforms & Consequences - 08/24/07 06:12 PM

I’ve seen many posts here, heated arguments usually, on the topic of conflict avoidance. In reading some of them, I thought to post my thoughts on some of the preliminary things that can invite/discourage conflict; uniforms in particular.

We all wear them, whether we know it or not. My martial arts training as well as sociology classes in college have brought me to the simple conclusion that they all have consequences as well. What we wear, how we walk, the type of car we drive, and even the stickers we put on them all convey solid messages to others. They’re not always correctly interpreted, but they’re there nonetheless.

If you dress like a gangbanger, you will likely be treated as such by those around you. You will invite conflict, possibly what many here have labeled harassment from law enforcement, and even drive away people who might normally have given you help: job offers, ride to school, etc. Alternatively, if you honestly don’t want to have these conflicts, you can choose not to wear that uniform. The same thing goes with the way you carry yourself, the way you speak, the way you write on Internet forums, and even the type of car you drive. This works in all directions; I’m not trying to single out the hip hop/gangster rap style of dress, but it’s the simplest example I can think of.

Now, take a look at yourself. What do you see? If I’m walking down the street in your direction will I immediately be on my guard, want to say hi, maybe want to avoid you entirely? Because of my training and upbringing, I make a conscious effort to blend in to the scenery as much as possible. As a result, I tend to draw little conflict. And, due to my observational skills of others, I find that I have become very good at spotting trouble ahead of time,,, and avoiding those places and people. I’m not saying my observations are always right. They’re not. Just as others’ observations about me are not always right. But, if you bet the cliché, you’ll never be disappointed.

Everyone has the right to dress and speak and act however they want. (within reason) But, if you wear the uniform, be prepared to accept the consequences of that uniform.

- End sermon.
Posted by: Taison

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/24/07 10:06 PM

Stop talking about my jeans, ok?

I only wear them on Saturday and Sundays! I wear whatever bling bling I want on those two days. I am certified Calvin Klein suit wearer on weekdays!

Now STOP talking about my jeans!!

-Taison out
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/25/07 08:45 AM

Good post, JMW. There is a fine line between expressing yourself and over-doing it.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 03:38 PM

Thanks for the vent. You don't know how often I have to restrain myself from running over fat women bicyclists, clad in those skin-tight lycra outfits. LOL!
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 04:11 PM

I'll give you a funny story on that one:

I have a friend who's been wearing his pants around his thighs his whole life. ( you know what I'm talking about ) It has actually caused damage to his hips and back because he has had to walk with his knees pronated slightly all those years to keep his pants from falling off. I'm serious, this is not a joke. He actually has structural problems now from his 'gangsta lean' walk.

But yeah, sure, wear what u like peeps.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 04:23 PM

Nice post Corwin and I agree.

I have no idea what you would see in me because it isn't just about the uniform. It is how you hold yourself, how you take care of yourself (hair, clean cut, etc). It can also be about your facial features, clenched fists, speed you are walking, etc.

During business days I'm dress pants/shirt or wearing kakis and a nice shirt; both with black dress shoes. On my time I'm usually in jeans (no holes) and a shirt, preferably a tight T-Shirt to accentuate my muscles (I'm a weight lifter). I have a clean shaven head though come the middle or end of the week I may have some stubble due to laziness. My wife says I look mean sometimes ... and probably that day I was. I've been told I'm very approachable and it is true, especially by kids. So with that, some features make me stand out while it is not necessarily a fashion statement as some.

Now how would one see me riding my sports bike? Some young punk who likes to drive fast and live dangerously? Has no care in the world for other drivers? Spoiled? Then I take off my helmet and you see a bald 38 year old? Not what you thought right? (And don't say going through a mid life crisis )

You are right, we perceive people by their appearances and we have to accept that is how we are going to be perceived. It may be wrong and appearances can be deceiving, but that is a fact. If I'm standing over a body with a gun and blood on my hands then I'm am going to be suspect until proven otherwise ... however people are not going to take that time to discover this for appearance sake.

I know I've been proven wrong about some people's appearance but more times then not I've been right. When the odds are against you sometimes you don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
Posted by: Neko456

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 05:43 PM

This is the way the world is we sterotype and try to stop self expression if its different then our own. I know a group of motorcyclist they plan a trip annually. When on the road they look the part, they act the part, they dress the part, they even smell the part like beer and marijunana. They have their motorcycle Mama's and some are armed with guuns and knifes. This group of wild Rebels without a cause pull up on you 320-30 deepe, as the sun about to go down. Do you run to the car and lock yourself fearing for your life or leave the car and run for the hills. If you do you are runniung from a group of weekend warriors that could probbaly help you maybe buying you a set of tires. They are business men and women just expressing a wild side.

Women go through this a lot and some know how to work it. They tell me, If they want to dance all night they will wear their Vamp outfit. They dance & drink free all night, of course they are asked to go home with about 30 different guys. If they want a quite night they dress in business attire have a nice drink watch the crowd maybe dance once or twice and go home without a hassle. Some women know how to work the system or what men want to see. Is that fair, I don't think so.

Now there are some situations that you are to be warned about bald or hairy white men with 4 leaf clovers or Swastika or SS tatooted on their body or Black or Latino men in bandanas with teardrops tatooted in the corner of their eye. These are signs that you maybe in danger these are things that you don't take off these guys are living this life.

Hard as it is try not streotype. Know the signs of real danger, and alway be aware of your surroundings. We have enough to look out for without make stuff up. My 2 cent.

We have to sell ourselves everyday, but that shouldn't stop us for living and being all that we want to be on the weekend or private time.
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 06:19 PM

Quote:

Hard as it is try not streotype. Know the signs of real danger, and alway be aware of your surroundings. We have enough to look out for without make stuff up. My 2 cent.

We have to sell ourselves everyday, but that shouldn't stop us for living and being all that we want to be on the weekend or private time.




You're absolutely right. Thanks for the comments. Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating stereotyping or advising anyone to turn and run from people who look a certain way. I was speaking more on the subject that, like it or not, we are judged by how we look. Is it right? Probably not. But it is the way of the world. So, as I said before, everyone should be free to be what they want. I was merely advising people to be aware of the consequences those things might incur.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 06:25 PM

That is how I understood it Corwin.
Posted by: Bushi_no_ki

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 08:02 PM

I wear a uniform for my job. And the appearance of that uniform is of paramount importance. I am an expert and a professional, I will always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself. Now, off duty, I do tend to slum it a little, usually wearing just a T-shirt and jeans, and the jeans might have a couple of holes or ripped knees. However, when I'm going out, or in certain other situations, not just sitting in the barracks, I will wear better looking jeans, and an actual T-shirt, not one of my tan undershirts.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/27/07 09:13 PM

You know, it kind of depends on who you want to accept you. If you dress like a gangsta... guess where you'll "fit in". If you dress in "normal" clothes, you'll fit in most anywhere. If you dress "high style", you'll need to be seen at the opera houses and stage shows...

I try to dress well anytime, unless I'm hanging around the house working, but it's from growing up poor and having a relapse... I have boxes of clothes that I haven't even seen in years, so it's almost a fetish to dress well. Seriously, I have way too many clothes, but it's because I inherited a walk-in closet full from a cousin that was a clothing salesman... new suits, pants, you name it... I've got boxes of them that I haven't even opened... but I look good when I do...

Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 11:15 AM

Stereotypes exist for a reason. That reason is that they are usually based in reality. The problem comes when we can't see that stereotypes are not absolute and that some, even many, people can break the mold. Another problem is that we, fallible human beings, tend to exaggerate stereotypes to the extreme.

Now, before anyone tries to slay me, I'm not talking about racism, nationalism or any other-ism.

Stereotypes are why advertising campaigns exist, and why good ones are effective.

Stereotypes allow "social engineers" to take advantage of people that they understand better than the victims understand themselves.

Stereotypes and an understanding of their limits, allowed me to do my job in service of my country successfully for many years and continue to allow me to be successful in supporting the folks who continue where I left off.

The realization that stereotypes don't apply to everyone has allowed me to meet and befriend some really great folks.



Dress and / or act like a punk, thug, drug addict, police officer, service member, clergy, and that is what you are until you demonstrate otherwise.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 11:36 AM

I think all stereotypes should be smashed. Yes, they 'work'...like a 2-sided blade.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 12:02 PM

We sorta touched on baggy pants in an earlier post. Here is an interesting video on baggy clothes and dress codes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBz8pBr5mbM&search=baggy+pants+guns
Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 12:24 PM

Instituting intelligent security designs/policies (like metal detectors in all entrances) would be better than using 'dress code' violations as an excuse to profile people. Next thing you know, girls will be told they can't wear long skirts...you know...to hide assault rifles.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 12:34 PM

Quote:

Instituting intelligent security designs/policies (like metal detectors in all entrances) would be better than using 'dress code' violations as an excuse to profile people.




Metal detectors and such are a great (but prohibitively expensive) idea. They can also be fooled or just plain fail.

Quote:

Next thing you know, Muslem girls will be told they can't wear full length dresses...you know...to hide assault rifles.




That would be a shame.
Posted by: Bushi_no_ki

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 01:22 PM

A dress code in a government funded program is always a touchy subject, IE freedom of expression and speech and all that. But it's not a bad idea. I personally like the idea of a fairly lax uniform policy- Blue jeans with a school shirt, and optional shorts for summer/fall and spring. Removes all issues with a dress code, and you aren't requiring the student to wear anything stuffy.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 01:31 PM

Quote:

A dress code in a government funded program is always a touchy subject, IE freedom of expression and speech and all that. But it's not a bad idea. I personally like the idea of a fairly lax uniform policy- Blue jeans with a school shirt, and optional shorts for summer/fall and spring. Removes all issues with a dress code, and you aren't requiring the student to wear anything stuffy.




If only it were so simple How new or well worn can the jeans be in appearance? Holes allowed, and if so, where, how big etc? Shorts? Oh the heresy! How short? How much butt cheek can hang out the bottom? How many inches above the knee? The shorts I would wear in public (as blindingly pale as I am and all) would seem stuffy to many, maybe immodest to others.

I'm all behind freedom of expression and speech, but if once chooses to dress and express oneself like a hoodlum, well, if it looks and quacks like a duck. . .

As for baggy clothes that can conceal things, where do we draw the line? I don't have the answers. It all comes down to the freedom:security ratio.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 01:40 PM

I think that humans have struggled since the beginning to balance societal/tribal pressures to 'conform',with the individual need to express one's self via appearance. 'Us vs. them', based on appearance, has a long and bad history.

Personally, to take a lighter note, I do not 'conform' to standards. Just last week, a woman was surpised to learn that my favorite magazine was 'The Journal of Asian Martial Arts'. 'I would never have guessed!' was her comment. And upon discovering that I could not work an early shift because it would interfere with my weapons class, my boss said 'You don't seem the type.' Just a nice, innocuous, old lady.

BUT...tell me...how many times have you been warned not to trust strangers because they 'look nice'?
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 01:51 PM

I've always found that that "nice girls" were the ones to watch out for.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 02:19 PM

I am 6' 0" and 215 pounds of tattoo covered, shaved bald headed, goatee sporting Goth. I wear black, I dont walk around with a natural 'smile' as my stand by expression. I have a 49 inch chest and a 18.5 inch neck. I listen to music that ranges from depressing to outright violent. i play violent video games. I collect weapons. I watch horror and violence filled movies.
I am the guy who will run down the street to save your ass when I see you getting a beating, I am the guy who will step in and act as trained first aider/CPR at an accident. I am the guy who will make sure your kid gets to the customer service desk safely when he/she gets lost in the hyper market.
Appearances count for sh1t.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 02:22 PM

What strange bedfellows opinions can make...the fat old lady and big, 'bad' Goth.
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 02:30 PM

Quote:

Next thing you know, girls will be told they can't wear long skirts...you know...to hide assault rifles.




Yes. Absolutely. They should be outlawed. Crazy skirt wearing terrorists.

Posted by: harlan

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 02:36 PM

It's being treated lightly here, but I understand that in Europe this is being considered...due to some attacks by radicals, male and female, using 'traditional' female Moslem/Middle Eastern garb to hide explosives. Just pointing out that points of view on what is 'acceptable' change due to various social pressures.
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 02:46 PM

Yes. You're right. Perhaps I shouldn't have responded without considering that take on it. I wasn't thinking along those lines.

My reasons are completely selfish. I think women should be required to wear short skirts all the time. Then this problem would go a way entirely.

But being serious. I don't think anyone should be required to dress a certain way at all. And I did not mean to imply that with my original or subsequent posts.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 03:42 PM

Quote:

I am 6' 0" and 215 pounds of tattoo covered, shaved bald headed, goatee sporting Goth. I wear black, I dont walk around with a natural 'smile' as my stand by expression. I have a 49 inch chest and a 18.5 inch neck. I listen to music that ranges from depressing to outright violent. i play violent video games. I collect weapons. I watch horror and violence filled movies.
I am the guy who will run down the street to save your ass when I see you getting a beating, I am the guy who will step in and act as trained first aider/CPR at an accident. I am the guy who will make sure your kid gets to the customer service desk safely when he/she gets lost in the hyper market.
Appearances count for sh1t.





You forgot "and I love dogs!"

Appearances can absolutely be deceiving. There is an interrogation technique called "Fear Up" which can be characterized as mild or harsh. I liken the mild version to the mad scientist and the harsh version to the raving lunatic.

I teach a class that had a lot to do with knowing your own capabilities and such. I used to ask if the students in each class running thought I personally could pull off the fear up harsh approach and the result was almost always a unanimous "no way." I guess the thought I looked to nice. Then one day I shaved my head, and started wearing a goatee. From then on, the answer I got was almost always "yes." I suppose I looked meaner with my new look.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 03:52 PM

Quote:

I think women should be required to wear short skirts all the time.




except when they're wearing volleyball shorts!

Actually I realised I am a feminist when discussing female attire. A rather brash feminist was vocalising about how men kept looking at women's bodies. I commented that if someone didn't want to be looked at then they should reconsider wearing the kind of clothes which make people look. The reply was "they don't dress for you, they dress for themselves".

Well, I figured that as the way they dress for themselves is also the way I'd like them to dress for me then I must support their right to dress that way, therefore I must be a feminist.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 03:55 PM

On a more serious point, there has been a lot of discussion about Islamic dress-codes for women, especially since a male terrorist suspect manged to escape from UK whilst allegedly dressed in full female dress and burkha.

In schools many local authorities have allowed girls to wear trousers as part of the uniform, partly to avoid court cases over the right to wear trousers.
Posted by: Neko456

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 04:45 PM

Cords statement -
I am the guy who will run down the street to save your ass when I see you getting a beating, I am the guy who will step in and act as trained first aider/CPR at an accident.

Yeah but does the assailant and guy getting beat down take off running thinking your are gonna drink their blood!! Does the paramedic pull out crosses and check the CPR patience's neck for puntucture wounds!!

I bet thats a scarring sight, you wake up from CPR because of a near fatal heart attack and see YOU!!! Wiping your mouth!!!

With that dramatization JMWCorwin I see your point clearly now.

Here I go sterotyping but just wondering, if you ain't got time to rationalize you do go with your 1st thought, scream!! Damn, When you're strange, song of the, Lost Boys movies. I really liked that movie, cool vampires, Cord you fly thru the window, lights, camera, action.
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 06:21 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I wasn't really looking at the political aspect of this when I wrote it. And I wasn't intending to start a debate on who 'should' be allowed to do or wear what. I was looking at the sociology of, mainly, those people who whine to me about being treated a certain way when I see it as at least partly their fault. Sure, where whatever you like. We should be allowed to do it. But we all, yes all of us, judge people on first impression... even if we try not to or if we see past it later. So, if you wear a sign that says "kick me" everywhere you go, don't complain to me about how "I don't want to get kicked, but they keep doing it."

Can you walk through that worst part of town dressed all in red? That part of town where everyone wears all blue? Sure. But if you do it, I don't want to hear how you keep getting into fights that weren't provoked and you had no desire to get into. That's all. Or drive a bright red sports car and get tickets, or walk into a bar full of drunken men wearing only your panties and wonder why they hit on you, etc, etc, etc.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 06:23 PM

Quote:

I am 6' 0" and 215 pounds of tattoo covered, shaved bald headed, goatee sporting Goth. I wear black, I dont walk around with a natural 'smile' as my stand by expression. I have a 49 inch chest and a 18.5 inch neck. I listen to music that ranges from depressing to outright violent. i play violent video games. I collect weapons. I watch horror and violence filled movies.
I am the guy who will run down the street to save your ass when I see you getting a beating, I am the guy who will step in and act as trained first aider/CPR at an accident. I am the guy who will make sure your kid gets to the customer service desk safely when he/she gets lost in the hyper market.
Appearances count for sh1t.




You would scare the sh1t out of me!

You are absolutely right that it shouldn't and it doesn't but I am guilty of making judgments many times too quickly ... but not all of the time. My wife will tell you that I have a kind heart and I think that is my saving grace. I may look at somebody on the street and think one thing but if I were to at all be confronted or talk to that person I seem to immediately allow a blank slate and then make my impression from there.

I know most certainly from you description Cord and what I know of you, I don't see two different people but only one. I wish that I could honestly give everybody that same latitude ... and perhaps not knowing you and who you are about I would have been easily to jump to a conclusion ... that is until I spoke with you.
Posted by: Bushi_no_ki

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 09:09 PM

Cord, honestly, there was a time I would have been intimidated by the description you gave me. You are right about judging by appearances. I try to give everyone a chance, even if the outward appearance does make me fear for my life.

As for how a woman dresses, every woman should realize by about age fifteen how men are, including myself, and if you put what your momma gave you on display, I'm going to take a moment to appreciate that beauty. However, do feel free to dress how you wish, I'm not objectifying, I'm appreciating.
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/28/07 09:32 PM

Quote:

Appearances count for sh1t.




You too, are absolutely right. In the end, they don't mean anything. But it still does nothing to negate the fact that eveyone around us will still continue to make those judgements. You make them too. Like maybe when you see a guy wearing a pink polo shirt, with a yellow sweater tied around his neck, and driving a red porsche. If you would tell me that doesn't immediately bring a certain image to your head, I'd be inclined to say you're lying. Either to yourself or me but lying still.

Maybe you're just better than me and that too is entirely possible.
Posted by: Taison

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/29/07 02:23 AM

Quote:

I am 6' 0" and 215 pounds of tattoo covered, shaved bald headed, goatee sporting Goth. I wear black, I dont walk around with a natural 'smile' as my stand by expression. I have a 49 inch chest and a 18.5 inch neck. I listen to music that ranges from depressing to outright violent. i play violent video games. I collect weapons. I watch horror and violence filled movies.
I am the guy who will run down the street to save your ass when I see you getting a beating, I am the guy who will step in and act as trained first aider/CPR at an accident. I am the guy who will make sure your kid gets to the customer service desk safely when he/she gets lost in the hyper market.
Appearances count for sh1t.




I'm 5'7, around 187 lbs, I usually wear metal-looking jeans, lots of bling, black shirt, my head is red, I got a black goatee, my face is usually like Steven Segals i.e. emotionless. I walk with an air of superiority, heck, arrogance, wherever I go.

Most people auto-assumes I'm some poor punk that left school and is spending most of his days as a thug.

WRONG! I'm an overseas co-ordinator at a freight forwarder. I wear suit to work, and I make more international phone calls a day, then Ziladin Zidane can score goal in a season. I co-ordinate containers with some of the biggest liners out there like CMA CGM, MSC, MAERSK, KLINE, NYK, EMIRATES, UASC.

Now what punk does that these days?

Appearance counts for sh!t.

-Taison out
Posted by: Cord

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/29/07 03:16 AM

Quote:

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I wasn't really looking at the political aspect of this when I wrote it. And I wasn't intending to start a debate on who 'should' be allowed to do or wear what. I was looking at the sociology of, mainly, those people who whine to me about being treated a certain way when I see it as at least partly their fault. Sure, where whatever you like. We should be allowed to do it. But we all, yes all of us, judge people on first impression... even if we try not to or if we see past it later. So, if you wear a sign that says "kick me" everywhere you go, don't complain to me about how "I don't want to get kicked, but they keep doing it."

Can you walk through that worst part of town dressed all in red? That part of town where everyone wears all blue? Sure. But if you do it, I don't want to hear how you keep getting into fights that weren't provoked and you had no desire to get into. That's all. Or drive a bright red sports car and get tickets, or walk into a bar full of drunken men wearing only your panties and wonder why they hit on you, etc, etc, etc.




in the real world we will always make instinctive judgements based on appearance- we are animals. Its the same process we use to guage danger elsewhere- yellow/black stripes on a wasp, red marking on the spiders back etc all these are visual signals to avoid harm to ourselves.
When the Rabbit sees a fox, it does not stop and guess if the fox is or isnt hungry, the rabbit just runs. visual based judgement is a primal instinct.

Now the trick is to use experience and as Neko would put it, 'our god given brain' to step beyond the first stage reaction and understand that it can be wrong.

We must also remember that in the natural world their are harmless 'mimicks' of dangerous creatures that use their physical similarity as defence. Hence you get the hover fly that looks like a wasp, but has no sting.

in the human world our physical symbols and expression have become so diverse and so personalised that to attach risk, trust or moral stigma to certain attributes is no longer an instinct to be trusted.

A young goth woman and her boyfriend were attacked in a UK park last week. She died and he recieved a clot on the brain. The police attending could not determine any facial features they had been kicked in their heads so badly. 5 youths are in custody, the only reason given for the attack is the way the couple looked/dressed.On reading this article my thoughts started with 'f*cking hoodie scum' - but that makes me no different to the individuals who made the attack, who no doubt started with a thought similar to 'stupid goth c*ts'. Tribal instinct is a natural thing as well, and we all do it. We ae doing it now- we are a 'tribe' of MA'ists. Again, the trick is to recognise it for what it is, rationalise it, and move beyond it in our actions.

Appearance based judgement can be a terrible thing.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/29/07 10:59 AM

I think it is a matter of how open our minds are. I was once intimidated by the goth look and culture, but now I find it quite interesting and even in some cases attractive. I got over my "fear" when a friend introduced me to the "vampire" sub culture which has a HUGE goth component (imagine that). These weren't the pig blood drinking folks but more like a group that took goth a little farther than some on weekends and had a lot of fun. I was open enough to check it out and there are some really interesting people involved. Some you would never expect, others are more openly goth about their daily lives.

Heck, looking at me, you would probably get the wrong Ideas too.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/29/07 12:36 PM

No ... you are a schmuck. Just Kiddin'
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Uniforms & Consequences - 08/29/07 02:13 PM

I thought it was obvious that I wasn't asking anyone to make judgements based on appearance. If it seems that way I apologize, because that was not my intent. Just musing about the nature of how what we wear, do, how we talk, etc., projects outwardly to others. And, on this forum and in this thread, how it pertains to MA, SD and conflict avoidance.

The main thing that got my head going in this direction is I have a friend who's an ex-gang member. He's a great guy with a good heart and one of my best friends. Now, he doesn't actively participate in any of that anymore, but it's still always quite obvious what his background is. He makes the choice to wear the obvious gang uniform most days and makes the choice to walk through places where he knows that uniform will get him in trouble. Yet, he claims always to not want any of that conflict. If he took off at least he obvious gang flags that he wears and chose a different route to walk, it would prove to me that he truly does want to avoid the conflict. Just as not going to bars that everyone knows have blood on the floor evey night keeps me from having to defend myself in the bars I do go to.

So, yes you're right. It's an extremely terrible thing to judge people based on initial appearances. It's even worse when those judgements lead to violent acts and hate. I was commenting more on the concept of not swiming in shark infested waters when you're bleeding. If you know you're bleeding, don't go in. If you do. Don't wonder why you got bitten.