forarm + punch?

Posted by: Jer_sm

forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 05:16 PM

i was wondering if the forarm should be trained for a harder punch. im looking for arguments againts this.

seeing as power = mass * speed. if you put more mass on the forarms, it should reasonably increase the punch psi?
Posted by: MattJ

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 05:29 PM

Strength building can help with punching power. But more important is developing body weight transfer, core integration and proper joint alignment. Without these factors, all that extra muscle will fail to make it to impact.

There really is no 'one thing to work on'. You have to work on it ALL.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 05:39 PM

What???????? Are you being serious?

The arm, and by extension forearm, has minimal impact (pardon the expression) on the power generated during a punch.

Power is generated through explosive rotation of the legs/core/shoulder, transferred through the arm.
Speed x Mass does equal Force. But how on earth do you think forearm muscles are going to generate any sort of power? What explosive movement are those small muscles going to generate? What possible speed are they going create? In your scenario, having big forearms but weak legs, core, back and shoulders, would mean your equation would look like: Barely any speed x small mass developed in one of the smallest muscle groups of the body = pathethic power.

Bearing that in mind, even with stronger, bigger forearms, in proportion to your body won't help your power.

I have read your other thread here, and I know you are a newbie, but you need to get out of your head that having big arms will help you be a powerful puncher.


I am going to say this once more: Go find yourself a decent boxing coach. If you are serious about learning to punch, and truely want to learn about "the art of punching" you need to find a good coach to a) develop your punching capability and b) stop yourself from getting injured when trying to punch.
Posted by: Jer_sm

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 06:03 PM

i know those things.. bleh, its not really what i ment.

i was posting here for input.
im not trying to punch with my forearm.. nor am i just trying to delvelope my forearms...

i have pretty good power behind my punches, so ive been told by a pro that i sparred. i was just sorta asking lets say i added some muscle to the forarms, it should increase the impact. right?

i was just curious if forarms acutally play a important part in boxing and if they should be developed too...
Posted by: ExCon

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 06:11 PM

Quote:

i was just sorta asking lets say i added some muscle to the forarms, it should increase the impact. right?



Wrong!
Posted by: Jer_sm

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 06:21 PM

ugh i sorta fail see how adding mass to the equasion dosen't help...

so basicly forearms aren't important in the psi of someones punch? -.-
Posted by: MattJ

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 07:16 PM

Quote:

ugh i sorta fail see how adding mass to the equasion dosen't help...



Re-read PW's post. The amount of "mass" you are adding is so small as to be utterly negligible. Unless you are Popeye.

If anything, you would want to try to develop your lats or chest, etc. That would have *somewhat* more functional use for punching power than forearms. But again, without integrating the transfer of that muscular power, you won't get hardly any advantage.

Quote:

so basicly forearms aren't important in the psi of someones punch? -.-



Basically correct.
Posted by: Taison

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/09/07 11:29 PM

If you want more power to the punch by muscle mass, here are the areas to train;

Deltoids - shoulders twist when they deliver the punch
Abs - they have a small part in all type of movement. Strong core will help you.
Back - The back has some part, I guess.
Tricep - Is the muscle that moves the fist forward, not the bicep. Big bicep is like a brake.

But! The best thing is to rely on mechanic and precision, not power of the muscle. A good cross delivered from anyone has KO power, well, except MattJ cuz he slaps.

Quote:

so basicly forearms aren't important in the psi of someones punch?

Because the forearm doesn't do much work in delivering a punch.

Quote:

ugh i sorta fail see how adding mass to the equasion dosen't help


I've been training the forearm for quite a while, and even though they're harder they haven't added much mass and doesn't contribute much to heavier punch. But my shoulders and triceps have increased a bit in size, but this "a bit" is quite a lot more than the forearms ever can grow. Thus more mass into the equation.

The key to good power is velocity. If you're able to develop your muscle to increase velocity, you'll have KO power. And the mass you're transfering isn't your arm weight, it's your body weight. A punch is basically, your body weight transfered at a high velocity towards your target. That's how some people can punch up 200kg. Meh, my cross can only punch upto 135kg, sometimes 150kg so I suck.

-Taison out
Posted by: govt_issued

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/10/07 05:18 AM

I think what he is trying to say/ask is that he is wondering if the more weight/mass he has on his forearm the more momentum his punch will have. He's not asking about strength per-say but just the extra weight on his arm in general.

I would think it wouldn't have that much of an impact difference since it's really not that much weight. I mean think about how much the forearm probably weighs. If you were to put a pound of muscle on just one of your forearms it would so much bigger.

Like everyone else here is saying, if you're worried about punching power just concentrate on strengthening the necessary areas.
Posted by: Jer_sm

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/10/07 09:25 AM

ah ok, thanks guys, verry nice replies!
i guess i'll put some extra work on the triceps.

im just some annoying noob and still you guys are all so friendly. i love this forum.


hey, one more question prolly directed towards taison, since you know your punch. if i wanted to mesure my punch, how would i go abouts doing this? is it some machine?
Posted by: Ayub

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/10/07 08:36 PM

I think the back and legs will do you even better.
Posted by: Taison

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/11/07 01:29 AM

Yeah, it's a machine that they use in the national stadium. It's to measure the weight of your punch upon impact for amateur boxers.

I was playing around there and asked if I could try it, the coach was rather nice and let me.

But I used to weigh around 73kg around that time. I weigh like 85kg now so the force of my punch would be a bit higher now, plus my mechanics are a bit better than before.

Quote:

im just some annoying noob and still you guys are all so friendly

Don't worry, when I was a noob, I used to ask much much more than this. I'd actually irritate my master so much, he went "Go home and write down the questions, and give them to me tomorrow. I'll answer them later tomorrow night".

-Taison out
Posted by: Jer_sm

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/11/07 02:52 PM

HAHA, he didn't even wana answer anymore, thats pretty rough.

well, thx a lot dudes.
Posted by: Taison

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/12/07 12:16 AM

No problem, feel free to ask.

-Taison out
Posted by: alext

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/21/07 03:02 PM

lol P = mv XD
A.) this is martial arts, not physics :P although good thinking, buuut i would tend to think that the more mass you put on, the slower your hit will be (slower acceleration, and due to the fact that in a punch there is little space, you would increase the time taken to throw the punch and bring the arm back (I think).

prolly just best to work on technique, using body weight better and the muscle amount you will need will come from training

triceps are the main muscles in an MA called wing chun, which talks about the perfect punch coming from the extention due to the triceps ^_^ those people have LARGE triceps.
Although i dont know the machines name, im sure there is a machine out there that measures the force you exert on something. I would say a more practical method would be to get breaking boards (you can set them up at different critical breaking points, making it harder to break) and they seriously range
I could be wrong so listen to the pros on here more :P
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/21/07 03:14 PM

You dont build the arms for punching power. Shame to all of you who gave the incorrect answer!

If you want to increse punching power, and add mass, it would seem smart to me to work the largest muscle group that contributes to said punch. The legs. Since your feet are also responsible for speed, this is a no brainer. Work the legs and the footwork. The fist will follow!
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/21/07 03:17 PM

Quote:

lol P = mv XD
A.) this is martial arts, not physics :P although good thinking, buuut i would tend to think that the more mass you put on, the slower your hit will be (slower acceleration, and due to the fact that in a punch there is little space, you would increase the time taken to throw the punch and bring the arm back (I think).




Er... the laws of physics effect pretty much everything in the universe. Including punching.

I know what you are trying to get at though. But really, if a person has large muscles and a huge amount of develpoed twitch fibres from doing explosive weight training, that can only add to the accelartion of the persons movement, surely?

You touch upon a good point though: Having a large amount of body mass does not mean you are able to hit hard neccessarily. It depends on how fast you can move that mass... dang, there's that pesky physics again lol!
Posted by: Taison

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/22/07 04:45 AM

I've always adviced people to work their quads and core muscles. People keep ignoring me and say "if you punch with your arm, which is the logical muscle to train?? THE ARM! You stupid or something Taison?".

I don't know about them, but I think I can punch harder from doing squats and lunges than they can from lifting weights with their barbell biceps curls.

Core muscles and the legs! That's the key. Power comes from the ground!

-Taison out
Posted by: alext

Re: forarm + punch? - 03/22/07 05:23 AM

Quote:


Er... the laws of physics effect pretty much everything in the universe. Including punching.

I know what you are trying to get at though. But really, if a person has large muscles and a huge amount of develpoed twitch fibres from doing explosive weight training, that can only add to the accelartion of the persons movement, surely?

You touch upon a good point though: Having a large amount of body mass does not mean you are able to hit hard neccessarily. It depends on how fast you can move that mass... dang, there's that pesky physics again lol!



so what your saying is. E = MC squared! :P
yeah well physics DOES apply to everything :P my logic was that the bigger the mass the harder it is to accelerate, which is basic. (tbh im sure in a punch the difference is minimal) but then i would think it would be like training with 10 oz gloves, which are SO ANNOYING!.

yeah at the end of the day if you are hitting as hard as you can with your arm, the best thing to do is to build up your technique and whatnot so that you are moviung your hips with your punches perfectly etc. A friend of mine isnt at all built, but hes been training for 10 years and has an absolutely savage cross punch.