opinions on muhammad ali's style of boxing?

yeah he was great but kinda retired a little too late...

so do you think the way he fights would do good in the streets???

Believe it or not Mike L is not the only one of that opinion. The Ring Magazine in 2000 polled its readers to find out who were the best fighters of the 20th century (catergories like best pound for pound, best puncher etc..)

The winner of the most overrated category was ..... Muhammad Ali!!!

By the way, Muhammad Ali was a boxer, not a streetfighter. Sure he could beat George Foreman, but wouldn't do him much good when George's mate snuck up behind him and hit him with a bottle!

Besides which, who in their right mind would want to tackle a 6'3", 215 pound athelte?

Did anyone see that this thread was about BOXING style? His streetfighting ability is not important. WRT Boxing, he probably was the greatest. It is true he should hve retired earlier, might have made things easier for him now. Nevertheless he was still a great boxer, and a great man.

In terms of him being cocky and overrated, thats what boxers do, boxers talk. I think the image he created was a hugely damaging effect to his opponents, and lead to lots of his victories. I loved the way he labelled Fitz Floyd the rabbit and went to his gym before their fight and gave him some lettuce and carrots!

(For the record, a top professional boxer and someone who has a blackbelt in TKD under one of the greatest TKD masters of our time Jhoon Rhee, is likely to be very very good at fighting on the street.)

You know when I heard the fact that he was trained in taekwondo I started noticing similar things between the way in which he fought and taekwondo. Is it just me or did the way he stood look a lot like a taekwondo fighter?

Matt

Yeah he was a good fighter, but he was sooooooooo cocky, I still respect him I guess. No doubt he was one of the greatest fighters of all time, I suppose his cockyness was used as a mental strategy towards his opponents. As for him holding a black belt in TKD, I could see that in his foot work, not just leaning and dodging, but also sliding, and trapping can be seen. I have seen many of his old fights on ESPN classic, but I was born after his time. Also I used to live in Louisville KY, where he was born(then known as Casius Clay) so no one would ever shut up about him. In the end he was a great boxer, a good strategist, and a grade A smack talker. It work well for him though.

I think if Ali didn't smack talk....he would be on everybody's list as G.O.A.T. I notice too, that when an athlete gets to the level that he is dominating every opponent...almost to the point of embarassment...then too he will be percieved as "cocky". I personally think that to Ali the science of boxing was easy for him, like a math wiz in algebra "easy A's". As for his retiring "too late"; well I admire his fighting spirit more so than his boxing ability (Ali VS US Government, Ali VS Joe "twice", George,Larry holmes)...fighters of that calibur are rare now in the Heavy division.

Secondly: Ali nurtured his basic style from "street fighting", check out his Biographies. He was noticed during a street encounter "as a youth" but it counts. Handspeed and power blended harmoniously together was his bread and butter, and the mans' footwork was unrivaled. Ali was a superb strategist, ebber quick, smart mouthed..."and oh so pretty" legend. Muhammad Ali.

yeah he was a smart boxer,
but i don really get tha rope a dope thing,i know thats his strategy when he faught foreman..but is the rope a dope still allowed these days??

Ali was the greatest. From his pure boxing skill in outclassing Joe Louis, to his 'human punchbag' take all you have demoralisation of George Foreman.
You also have to put him in a wider context. He was articulate, and a vocal supporter of equality, yet unlike pure political icons (Malcome, Martin luther) he managed to not alienate the mainstream (white) society. Rather, he charmed them, and won their admiration, not fear.
He could have gone to war- he would have been put on showbiz detail, and would not have needed to see any danger, but he stood by his beliefs and gave up what he loved the most as a price for his conviction. From there he returned and won it all back on his own terms. I dont necessarily agree with his standpoint, but I admire his conviction in the matter.
He was more than a boxer. his skill and charisma spoke across cultures and languages. You could be a CO in an office, and have nothing in common with a kid in the slums of Brazil, but I guarantee that put you together and introduce Ali as a topic, and an animated and enthusiastic discussion will ensue. Thats true greatness.

could Tyson/Lewis/Hollyfield/ insert modern day champ here, have beaten him? maybe. His legend is not based on invulnerability, it is based on tenacity, a striving for the ultimate whilst never losing sight of your roots, and above all sharpness of wit, and poetry of motion. Losing a fight simply couldnt weaken him, as it was his fights, not the results, that define him.

adding to Cord's

he was the people's champ, and made boxing known to the masses of people outside of the boxing community and boxing fans. Hell I never really watch boxing but I do know who Ali is. He was more than just boxer but an icon, politician, family man, muslim, leader, entertainer, etc. His cockiness and words and loud mouth was not only the center of attention but it also was part of his strategy. Personality perfectly molded into his fights. And while he danced around his opponents with unrivaled footwork and speed, he also stood his ground and took an unhuman amount of poundings to his arm and sides with his rope-a-dope. He fully understood the sport of boxing and showed it numerous times just by declaring which rounds his opponents will fall. He knew the tricks, the rules, and the mentality and weaknesses of his opponents and used them to his full advantage. He is the greatest...

Yes! it is true! Muhhamed Ali was trained in TKD and i have read and seen many a biographies and documantaries stating that this is true.He has told his life storys on his expieriences on the streets and all his fights on the streets.His boxing stratigie was called the, Rope a dope"' he started doing this as he would mock his opponnents tiering them out staying on the defens euntil he desides toi attack like a predator. or ofcoarse i might be wrong.

Ali was a natural talent; prior to TKD. The defining characteristic being his "dancing around opponent" Check out the Ali vs Patterson bout. Secondly, a many seem to believe his defining style was "rope a dope"....wrong, that came only during the Foreman fight "which ironically can be percieved as his greatest bout." Personally , I dig the Frazier series. Ali may have used the rope a dope "late" in his career too, we know "now" that he was suffering from an illness that would only years later be formally diagnosed. Aging fighters have to do these things, they can't honestly expect to go punch for punch with a fighter 10+ years their junior. Prime example of this is B. Hop...here's a guy that's been champ and consistently winning fights for over a decade. How? He is not as aggressive, nor is fast as he once was, but he is master of clinch fighting "tired", master of dirty boxing "borderline illegal punches", and can still go twelve! Plenty people don't like to watch these fights, but true boxing enthusiasts can appreciate the methodology of a master.

I enjoy this conversationt but let's get back to his style, not Muhammad, unless you want to talk about the man more than his style.

His style is very similar to JKD, or should it be JKD is similar to him? I don't know, but I know that he's a genius when it comes to boxing.

His "rope-a-dope" was a famous technique but it's not his style of play. It wasn't used that much. Sting like a butterfly, run like a bee (Joke intended) was what made him a legend.

-Taison out

With respect Taison, everyone's style of JKD is different dependant on their skillset and what works for them, so saying Ali fought 'like a JKD practitioner' is only correct in the sense that he found, and was keenly aware of, his strengths, and developed his boxing style to maximise those strengths. In that sense, you can say every boxer fights 'JKD', after all, none of them go out of their way to use techniques and footwork that dont do them any favours.

He had great footwork and balance, fast hands, and was flamboyant and focussed in equal measure. He had a suspect jaw, but tenacity and willpower enough to get out of trouble more often than he should have.

His fighting style worked well enough for him to win the greatest prize on earth 3 times, and cement his achievements, in not just sporting history, but the history of the 20th century. i dont think, on that basis, any of us are in a position to be overly critical

Lots of people have commented that you can see him intercepting his opponent with his superior speed in boxing matches. He was boxing around the same time as Lee's JKD, perhaps he was fond of the ideas.

In regard to his style of boxing, Ali was of course utterly unique.

Many kids who have seen him (and grown men too) want to imitate him. This isn't such a great idea, as he had a very unconventional, yet utterly unique style (hands low, relying heavily on head movement to avoid punches, then rope-a-dope etc...)

No one like him since, though there have been many pretenders. Touching on the JKD theme, what worked for Ali won't necessarily work for everyone. In boxing its better to learn the conventional way first, then experiment. You learn the rules so you can break 'em later on.

Great boxer though.

As mentioned he was unique, his style of boxing takes mounds of stamina, fortitude and probably natural or un-natural abilities. He broke all the rules hands down, lean back and being as fast as he was hands and feet. He was a brillant tactican and technically sound though unorthodox.

Was he the greatest, by his own admission he admire Sugar Ray Robinson, who he and I think was the greatest. But as a heavyweight dispalying the sweet science he was a marvel. When young able to knock people out while going backwards.

I have to rate Ali in the top 5 or 10 HWs ever just by his skill, rein against top level competition, imagine playing while somebodies trying to murder you, he was able make good/great fighters look lame or normal. As he got older he was normal except for his understanding of boxing. W/o his footwork he started taking too many blows. I thought Foreman was gonna kill him. Thats made him greater, doing what most people thought was impossible after Foreman destroyed Norton and Frazier.


Bruce Lee use to marvel at how he used his footwork as a defense and still be able to strike. Lee was not easily impressed.

Have you tried to mimmick ALI's stlye with a Friend, I can't last 2 rounds its almost impossible for a HW to be that fit, fast, smooth and forget about playing. I can do 6 3 minutes rounds, easy normally. Imagine some one trying to really hurt you. Ali was a Bad Man from a technocail boxing stand point actually a phonomenon as HW.

Middleweights and welterweights fight like that not HWs.

The Con: I really wasn't that impress with his KO power, as he aged.

yea I would have to agree that his type of boxing isn't found in anybody else. He practically had his hands at his hips and dared you to punch him, and yet you couldnt. And even though his hands were so low he could catch you with a jab from a mile away.

His style was great and honestly I think it would only work for him since no one can match that kind of speed and reaction time. And not to mention his great stamina that kept him in the ring for so long without getting tired.

I'm not an Ali fan; in fact, I only did a bit of research on him because of this thread. (Hardly knew anything about him) But anyone who can dodge a jab by judging its range like this has to be good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9JyK6VmuM&search=muhammad%20ali

Insane! I've never even heard of someone doing that. I know how fast jabs come, I can't imagine personally dodging one from within jabbing range like that. He just shuffled back out of the way, looks like less than an inch from breaking his nose. That guy walks the finest line between being hit and dodging the punch completely. It seems like he's so good at reading his opponents it's almost as if he's pre-cognisant.

I imagine fighting him would be like you're trying your hardest and you're certain you should have hit but in fact you're hitting nothing but air. I suppose it's a combination of the fact that his upper body is so fast it's unreal, in combination with really good footwork and distancing. Takes a lot of guts to walk a line as fine as that.

Edit: I just saw him dodge 4-5 punches in succession just by moving his head. I didn't even think that was possible! I'd be shocked if I was his opponent and this happened, I imagine the first thing that would go through my head would be "why haven't I won yet?".

Wish I could learn how to do that. If you had reflexes like that, a lot of the knife disarms you see in MA could be made to work with much less risk of getting cut.

Nope

He was a you say cocky to draw the crowd.
Before he came along boxing wasnt as rich
He was an excellent boxer.
Depends who he would have fought in a steet fight.
But why let a million pound earner loose on a bunch of none earning street fighters?

Most of Ali's skills go way back to early boxing days.
Nothing new in leaning forward on to the front leg striking then sinking back out of range to describe one of his techniques(float like a butterfly sting like a bee)

Ali was always open to a left hook, one of his flaws used by Henry Cooper(floored Ali) and Joe Frazier.

Not to sure If JKD was around in the 1920's?

Sup Leo! Long time no see my next-door neighbour! Welcome to the boxing forum!

Yes, I agree. We boxers set out rules and theories such as, bobbing your head while the opponent gives a jab and to return with a cross. For us, it's just a bunch of theories that rarely worked, but for Ali, he made it his lunch. Everything we thought was impossible, he did and on daily basis.

The thing I was impressed with is that Ali is able to actually stare down a jab. That's a fine line he's walking on. He can see the punch coming, move his head back a little, then return the favor onto his opponent. That's some great technique.

-Taison out

I think Ali would have done his home work on a fighter before his matches so knowing what the fighter had and didnt have. I think that the top boxers study their art as well as training in their art. Namely from boxers past and present

maybe he could dodge easily because he could read his opponets emotions..since sum of them were so [censored] off at him ...... it was funny to hear sum of his comments he used to make names for all of his opponets ex "big ugly bear" "the mummy"

I think this might be a determining factor but it was mainly because of his skill. He had a good amateur (Olympic Champ) and childhood boxing career, he never taunted his opponents then (I assume).

no most of his talking came when he went professional and especially when he beat sunny liston. But his taunting is a great part of his strategy. Seems to me he not only knows how to work the ring and his techniques but also his opponent, meaning they are in his control. If he wants ot make them mad then they'll get mad, make them think they're winning? he can do that too. Make them drop to the ground, easy. He knew their stamina, their strength, and weaknesses. He combined everything in his knowledge into the fight.

Ali trashed talked the same reason all fighters still trash talk today : It sells tickets.

You know, I grew up watching him fight on TV. Even as a kid, I was impressed by him. Ali was a force, and I think that his actions and words contributed greatly to the times. He was especially interesting whenever that twerp Howard Cosell (sp?) was on his case.

I thought he was magnificent.

I always thought Ali was a tremendous fighter, and was overmatched by his mouth, and he let it get away from him on many occasions.

His greatest mistake was thinking that nobody was watching when Joe Frazier knocked him backward over his heels in one of their fights and he attributed it to "stumbling"... Frazier hit him so hard it made him straighten his legs until his knees locked, and then he fell backward over his heels, but he "stumbled"...

When he first started "snapping" his punches, he was training in TKD with Jhoon Rhee. The story was told, but unverified, that at one workout, Ali knocked Rhee out, and left for the dressing room. When he came to, Rhee followed him and called him back, and told him "Class not over", and proceeded to knock him out during the TKD class.

As for Ali's style of boxing, I think he pared it down to whoever his opponent was, and changed it accordingly. "Stand up" fighters that stayed in one place got the "dance"; those that were "bob and weave" type, got the straight in advance and retreat; those that moved around got hemmed up in the corners, so he took away whatever their strongest weapon was, and used his mouth to not only intimidate the fighters, but to make the public see something other than a fighter out there... it was either a hero or a pariah, depending on whether or not you liked him.

Here's a picture of Ali...

The footwork in that clip was amazing. Perfect to keep him out of range except when he wanted.

I remember an interview on BBC (I think) where an ordinary fan was out walking his little daughter when he met Ali on a training run. He introduced him to his daughter and told her, "This is the greatest boxer in the world". Ali got down next to the little girl and said, "I only say I'm the greatest because it sells tickets".

I always thought it was a sign of how Ali's trash-talking was not meant to be taken too seriously by the way he parodied himself in adverts on TV:

There was the burger one where he is ranting away "I'm so great I don't realise how great I am!" and his mother tells him to shut up and eat his burger "fills even the biggest mouths". Then there was the Unigate milk adverts with the Humphries (straws that drank your unigate milk)where he recited his poems... Brut aftershave etc.

Of course, his trash-talking didn't amuse Smoking Joe, who apparently still hasn't forgiven him.