MMA - A passing Fad

Posted by: Dobbersky

MMA - A passing Fad - 04/12/12 11:16 AM

Who would have believed all those years ago that MMA would still be around!

A lot of the Die Hard Traditionalists condemned it saying it wouldn't last etc. etc. that it was a passing fad and that it doesn't give a good basis for martial arts prowess

Well then, what happened, well MMA is still around, its student base is beginning to encroach on Traditional MA's. Karate, Judo and Japanese Jujitsu classes are getting smaller. The styles that are there are getting "softer" with the Ippon Kumite points sparring, sparring gear making them all look like Michelin men etc. wear as MMA is getting harder.

The Only styles that are anywhere near are the knockdown styles, Okinawan Styles, Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Other styles have come through such as Daido Juku /Kudo and others like Shoot boxing etc.

What are your thoughts etc?
Posted by: duanew

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/12/12 12:08 PM

MMA is the Rap music of martial arts. Appreciated by its' devotees, malingned by its' detractor. Like Rap it is here to stay for better or worse-you decide.
Posted by: colman fink

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/12/12 03:51 PM

I remember reading a little while back in some martial arts (MA) business blog that the market reach of a typical martial arts school is only about 1-3% of the population. Even though the popularity of MMA is increasing exponentially, the actual practice of MMA is still within this 1-3%. Now a lot of TMA (traditional MA) schools are actually jumping on this MMA bandwagon and junking the traditional stuff, so I'm not surprised about the decline in TMA schools. Lets face it, MMA is really about becoming a better fighter and all those TMA values are not something MMA fighters are concerned about. Check this article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/90547...ial-arts-values There is still a market for TMA schools especially for the kids of those parents who don't like violence and those who also believe that TMA values teaches you more about becoming a better person in society, a scholar warrior. For me, I practice and teach both empty hands and weapons in a traditional school setting and have no desire to become just a better empty hand fighter.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/12/12 06:07 PM

I don't know if it's hurting arts like Judo. In fact I'd say the reverse is true, Judo is getting a lot of credit in MMA circles and certainly in my Judo class there were people from BJJ/MMA who came along to Judo to help improve their takedown skills. I would say most modern Judo is closer to MMA than it is to TMA though due to it's training methods.

Getting back to the main point, MMA simply offers a faster way for a person to get better at fighting compared to the TMA approach, and most of the population think fighting = self-defence. I don't agree with this, but personally I think MMA sparring is the best sort of sparring a person can do if they want to prepare for physical confrontation outside of class.

One thing to note that as MMA has only really existed (in the modern sense) for the last 20 years it is hard to see how older MMA fighters will cope with the rigours of training. It could be that years or decades of hard training take their toll on older MMA fighters, and they may end up going back to TMA because they still want to train but can't handle the rigours of MMA.

As for MMA taking students from TMA classes, I think that a lot of TMA schools only have themselves to blame. For too long many TMA schools have been selling themselves as places where they can make a person in to a fighting machine. In the advent of MMA and the UFC, the public are a LOT more discerning about the hyperbole and marketing that many TMA schools use.
Posted by: choonbee

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/12/12 06:47 PM

If it weren't for "little dragons", there'd be a lot of empty strip mall space for lease.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/13/12 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By: choonbee
If it weren't for "little dragons", there'd be a lot of empty strip mall space for lease.


+ 1 on that!!
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/13/12 08:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Originally Posted By: choonbee
If it weren't for "little dragons", there'd be a lot of empty strip mall space for lease.


+ 1 on that!!


+ 2 ON THAT!!!!!!

I totally agree that without the Kids Classes it would be hard to survive but as long as the kids classes aren't turned into a cheaper babysitting service.
Johnny's mum to Instructor "Johnny come home with a bruise last week"
Instructor to Johnny's mum "Karate does involve a bit of contact and knocks and bumps are expected. Also, there's actually less chance of him getting seriously injured doing martial arts than there is on the Football field"
Johnny's Mum to Instructor "Oh, I want him to get his black belt before he's 10, can he do it without him having to get punched and kicked by the other students"
Instructor to Johnny's mum "There's a Gymnastics school 2 blocks down on you right you can take him to!"
Posted by: choonbee

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/13/12 03:25 PM

Yeah....parents tend to mess things up sometimes by throwing in their two cents worth.
But sometimes the kids will get the parents into it too. I've seen some parents start training because their kids are doing it, and it turns into a healthy family activity for them.
Kids tend to remember stuff like that as they get older, and they feel comfortable coming back when they get older. (If they don't stick around at first).
With the amount of head shots that MMA guys absorb, I'm curious as to what effect those shots will have on them as they age. (American football players and certain boxers come to mind).
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/13/12 07:26 PM

The Neveda State commission looked at the raw data and found pro boxers got hit in the head WAYYYYYY more than pro MMA fighters. In this sense MMA was judged to be a "safer" sport.

Here in the UK and Ireland amateur fights often use Class D MMA rules, which allow everything except strikes to the head either when standing or on the ground. Class D rules are 100 times safer than boxing and are used either for weekend warriors who want to do a bit of fighting or youngsters who want to get a bit more experience.
Posted by: choonbee

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/13/12 08:36 PM

Amateur boxers wear headgear, which does help somewhat.
But what you're saying makes sense since boxing is all about hitting someone else in the head repeatedly. (for the most part, anyway. body shots are useful too, when you can get some in).
I was more curious about the pros, where anything goes.
Absorbing head shots with the back of your head bouncing off of the ring surface has to take a toll in some way.
Posted by: colman fink

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/14/12 08:55 AM

Talk about getting hit to the head. Check this slo-mo video of a moderately hard hit to the head and then decide if you want this done a multiple times (never mind countless times in your fighting career) to your head - http://youtu.be/zYKpQuq4hsE. I think the issues really start surfacing when you're old and decrepit as we're starting to see with retired American football players - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/sports...&ref=health

Remember you're older for a lot longer than you're young.

Posted by: choonbee

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/14/12 11:27 AM

Originally Posted By: colman fink
Talk about getting hit to the head. Check this slo-mo video of a moderately hard hit to the head and then decide if you want this done a multiple times (never mind countless times in your fighting career) to your head - http://youtu.be/zYKpQuq4hsE. I think the issues really start surfacing when you're old and decrepit as we're starting to see with retired American football players


That's my point.
It has to take a toll somewhere down the road.
But the sport hasn't been around long enough in order to determine that yet.
Even my (former) karate instructors are all banged up from years of hard training.
Knees, hips, backs, shoulders, neck. You name it.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/15/12 08:56 PM

A cool video. A whole lot of movement for a pretty weak punch. Whre are those guys during the real fights? Anyone check out the taser video?
Posted by: colman fink

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/22/12 09:32 AM

Check this new study that just came out on when chronic traumatic encephalopathy or CTE starts showing up in combat sport athletes.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120418203528.htm
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 04/28/12 12:30 PM

I'll second Duane's position smile. Well said...

Jeff
Posted by: Tom2199

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 06/10/14 06:12 PM

I think you can get everything you can get out of TMA in MMA and much more.

things like discipline, respect, passion for life you can find in many MMA fighters mentality.

When people used to think of cagefighting they would think of brutes with tattoos all over them, nowadays MMA is for everyone especially as we are seeing it become ever more popular.

We are seeing more and more champions who are good role models with integrity and humble attitudes coming out of MMA (minus a few).

The sport is still evolving and im excited for its future.
Posted by: THEFOREVERMAN

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 06/12/14 11:58 AM

Martial arts isn't about getting hit in the head, nor fighting and hurting your enemy. If you have a enemy and you can subdue him with minimum effort, then do so without hesitation.
Posted by: cxt

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 06/16/14 12:40 PM

Went back and read some of the lengthy MMA vs TM debates on the site.

Amazing how many MMA schools have gone out of business since the debates started.

What it looks like it came down to was business model. I don't question the value, just the longer MMA was around the more stuff it had to cut/stop doing in order to keep customers.

Like Coleman pointed out.

A number of TM school had to do the same thing to keep their doors open.

Paraphrasing someone here:

"back in the day we had small classes of serious people--then we expanded and we had to water down we taught in order to keep the doors open--and pay for the small group of dedicated people. Could have just focused on the small group of dedicated people to start with."
Posted by: ALPHABET_SOUP

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 06/20/14 10:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter

I don't agree with this, but personally I think MMA sparring is the best sort of sparring a person can do if they want to prepare for physical confrontation outside of class.


That is just your opinion. There are many ways in which that type of sparring would be detrimental in preparing you for a physical confrontation outside of class. It is designed for sporting competitions and not for self defence and if someone was going to use it for that purpose then they had better know how to adapt their mindset.


Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
As for MMA taking students from TMA classes, I think that a lot of TMA schools only have themselves to blame. For too long many TMA schools have been selling themselves as places where they can make a person in to a fighting machine.


For some of the bad schools this may be true. On the other side of the coin many people seem to think that with a few months MMA training that they can beat any TMA master with decades of experience easily in a few seconds just because they saw a TMA fighter lose one or two fights in the Octagon.

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
In the advent of MMA and the UFC, the public are a LOT more discerning about the hyperbole and marketing that many TMA schools use.


True but people also seem to believe every thing they see on YouTube about MMA versus (insert art here)somehow 'proving' that TMA's are somehow ineffective/useless.
Posted by: JKogas

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 07/01/14 08:16 PM

Like anything else, there is truth to be found on either side of the argument here! One thing MMA does well, is that the training prepares an individual to handle pressure in way not often seen within many TMA schools. This isn't to say that TMA guys don't see or can't handle pressure however (trying not to make a blanket statement here).

What if/wouldn't it be great if, we could train MMA for the street? Wouldn't we have something interesting then? Well, we can, have, and do.

At the end of the day, it's ALL TMA to begin with. The only difference is how it's trained.

Hello again, CXT! Hope you're well!
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: MMA - A passing Fad - 07/10/14 07:35 AM

Well Since My original Post on this not only has MMA become more popular but UFC etc has opened up to Women's Fights with some excellent Fighters competing