Rare standing armbar MMA

Posted by: MattJ

Rare standing armbar MMA - 04/30/08 08:23 PM

Our friend BrianRVanCise posted this over at MartialTalk:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=968811#post968811

Pretty interesting. Don't see standing armbars done too often, although we used to do those in my Kenpo classes a lot. Tough to control!

Good find Brian!
Posted by: Cord

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 05:08 AM

In western MMA rules, would this count as small joint manipulation in any way? or would the speed of the technique having an intention to break as opposed to creating a submission be considered against the rules?

He really cranked on that! and it has always been my contention in the tired old 'MMA on the street' arguments that surface, that armbars, kimura's etc, are all applied gradualy in competition only to spare damage- if done to break, they are a very quick technique- you dont need to roll around for 40 seconds waiting for a tap.

this clip kind of brings that home IMO.
Posted by: JKogas

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 07:01 AM

Good points Cord. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would roll around, trying to get a 'tap' in a street fight. Such a person would have to be about as moronic as the people are who insinuate that this is the objective.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 07:24 AM

Quote:

In western MMA rules, would this count as small joint manipulation in any way?



Not sure, but I don't think so. It is an armbar, albeit a non-standard one. Although that is a good question of itself -

Are wristlocks allowed in MMA? I'm pretty sure that finger locks are not. Although I think toe holds are, and I know ankle locks are.

Seems odd to me that they wouldn't be allowed, since toes are analogous to fingers, and the ankle is analogous to the wrist, but....meh.

Anybody?
Posted by: shills11

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 07:48 AM

I would put that under unsporting conduct, I know that sounds a bit silly in an MMA match but I actually think that he was out of order here he did that FAST and it looks like he meant to do it i believe in a match you should at least give your opponent the oportunity to tap from a submission attempt,if he doesnt tap then thats down to them and they have to live with the consequencies If heel hooks (and other twisting knee locks) are begining to be banned in some promotions i think that variation of an armbar should definately not be aloud.

Also Imagine you put other submissions on that fast without allowing you're opponent to tap? Neck cranks anyone??
Posted by: Usenthemighty

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 10:44 AM

Well you kinda need to do it fast in-order for you to secure it on your opponent before he or she can counter, but I do understand what you mean tho. However, they can't just start banning so many locks. One grappler's will be at a great disadvantage, two that will open a can of worms. It just seems a little ludacris to say one can only armbar someone this way and no other variation, when that is what makes fighting fighting.
Posted by: Cord

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/01/08 10:56 AM

Quote:

Well you kinda need to do it fast in-order for you to secure it on your opponent before he or she can counter, but I do understand what you mean tho. However, they can't just start banning so many locks. One grappler's will be at a great disadvantage, two that will open a can of worms. It just seems a little ludacris to say one can only armbar someone this way and no other variation, when that is what makes fighting fighting.



I dont think the application of holds to force submission was created as a kindness to the fighters. Remember how long Sylvia was out after Mir Broke his forearm? promoters cant afford to have their fighters risk retirement injuries every time they fight. The concept of the tapout is to give a fighter a chance to say 'yeah, fair play, you got me'. If you start creating a culture of 'snap it before they can tap', then you are going to see the death of MMA as athletes simply wont compete for fear of life-altering injury.
Posted by: TheSandaPanda

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/05/08 03:56 AM

HOLY SH**!!!

Wow. Waki Gatame for the win... I guess. Man I cringe just looking at that.
Posted by: MattyChi

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/05/08 02:53 PM

i mean mma isn't fricken bloodsport, geez. There should be a level of sportsmanship.

Also I don't think the other guy necessarily intentionally broke the arm. I think he may have been trying to just swing the guy around by the lock real quick, but who knows.
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/08/08 11:41 PM

I don't have a problem with it. Part of the dangers of fighting. There is no rule that says you have to wait for the guy to tap, especially with a "zero" control move like that.

At the pro level, most fighters are going to blow through a lock and make the ref save the other guy. Holding back can be the difference between winning and losing. Not my thing, but that's the nature of the game.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Rare standing armbar MMA - 05/09/08 01:13 AM

If it was done on purpose I have a huge problem with it.

It's not good to just say, "oh well, he knew the risks." WTF? Get real!!

I could just see it ten years from now.

"Well, I have killed 14 people,but they all knew the risks."