The Underhook (Clinch)
Posted by: Fletch1
The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/09/05 02:33 PM
From a point that was discussed in the you against you thread.
When working standup clinch, how much emphasis do you put on trying to get a good underhook? I have worked with people who give up an underhook for a whizzer (overwrap) because they immediately go for a takedown/ throw. From a more conservative standpoint, I think that you have many more options from an underhook.
#1 As we talked about before, a duckunder can take you straight to the back where you can do a takedown, dominate position or disengage and transition.
#2 A tight underhook and head in the pocket can help you maintain an effective flank position and help prevent the guy from squaring up with you. This opens and maintains opportunities to strike from safety. It is difficult for him to punch effectively with his free arm while your head is jammed in his neck and if he elects to try to rabbit puch you with the near arm, he gives you a wide berth to take the back.
#3 From and underhook, it is easier to reach down with the underhooking arm to grab a high or low single leg on the near side.
Is it the magic bullet? Of course not. But anyone working clinch in my opinion, would be wise to spend a significant amout of time with this position.
***This is what I would like to see continue with this forum. If a good point is brought up, explore it.
Posted by: BigRod
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/09/05 03:16 PM
Excellent post.
Underhooks do give you a lot of options, no doubt. Definately spend time learning underhooks and the options they open up for you.
But it's probably more important to learn how to operate in the clinch using techniques that work off both over and underhooks, which is my philosophy.
Getting yourself focused on one set of options is very limited and you'll miss other opportunities, or worse, you won't recognize what your opponent is about to do to you.
But since we're talking about underhooks, here's another option. This was introduced to me as a body lock, although I know it has other names.
Once you get the underhooks, reach around your opponent, clasp your hands together right at his lower back, and pull him into you. This will distrupt his balance, and allow you to literally walk over him, taking him down and putting you in the mount. You can also wrap one of your legs around his to add a trip as you apply this move.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/09/05 04:00 PM
Body Lock
I have not heard that name before, but I was shown that move by one of my friends that did BJJ. Works very well with the leg trip as mentioned by BigRod.
Royce used that several times in the UFC.
Posted by: Fletch1
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/09/05 06:36 PM
Double underhooks into a body lock is a primary focus of the clinch for sure. Once you have contol of the center mass/ torso & hips, it is generally a lot easier to control so you can throw, takedown, etc.
The emphasis with double unders though, is on dumping them. If you can't, then you might be in trouble if the guy is squared up and has a good whizzer.
A game of initiative. One good reason not to try to make Greco training static.
Posted by: Ubermint
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/10/05 05:42 PM
People tend to forget that fighting for underhooks is almost as important on the ground. It can make the difference between being held under side control and escaping, and it's integral to the butterfly guard game.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/10/05 07:48 PM
The underhook works great for BJJ it opens up so many sweeps.
But I've been working on the wheelchair clinch for some time now and I discovered that underhooks could actually save lives. If your enemy gets close enough apply underhooks lock your hands force his/her shoulders together. Simulatineously, raise your locked hands(keep them locked and continue applying pressure w/ your elbows and forearms) then drive them into the back as if you were performing a hammerfist. This can jam shoulders, crack vertabres, and even cause paralysis if the strike is delivered to the correct area of the back. SO PLEASE BE CAREFUL WHEN PRACTICING THIS TECHNIQUE.
Posted by: BigRod
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/11/05 09:34 PM
Quote:
If your enemy gets close enough apply underhooks lock your hands force his/her shoulders together.
Where are you placing your hands that's going to force the opponents shoulders together? 
Quote:
Simulatineously, raise your locked hands(keep them locked and continue applying pressure w/ your elbows and forearms) then drive them into the back as if you were performing a hammerfist.
Raise the hands to where? From where? And what are your elbows and forearms applying pressure to?
Quote:
This can jam shoulders, crack vertabres, and even cause paralysis if the strike is delivered to the correct area of the back.
Huh?
I'm especially interested in how this is so deadly you can paralyze someone.
Posted by: kusojiji
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/11/05 09:54 PM
Quote:
Once you get the underhooks, reach around your opponent, clasp your hands together right at his lower back, and pull him into you. This will distrupt his balance, and allow you to literally walk over him, taking him down and putting you in the mount. You can also wrap one of your legs around his to add a trip as you apply this move.
True, true. But if you can get double unders on someone they...what's the French word for it?... Le Suck
Posted by: Fletch1
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/12/05 12:44 AM
LOL
Le Suck or they haven't trained the clinch.
Occasionally I will have students who have trained for 3-4 years come visit our school and get double underhooked all over the mat.
Posted by: kusojiji
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/12/05 01:17 AM
Quote:
Occasionally I will have students who have trained for 3-4 years come visit our school and get double underhooked all over the mat.
Whoa. Trained what for 3-4 years?
Posted by: Fletch1
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/12/05 02:54 AM
BJJ. All gi. Standup limited to shooting doubles from the outside.
See it all the time.
Posted by: kusojiji
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/12/05 11:09 AM
Quote:
BJJ. All gi. Standup limited to shooting doubles from the outside.
See it all the time.
Looks like them boys gotta work on their standup game.
Posted by: Fletch1
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/12/05 11:34 AM
You betcha.
Posted by: BigRod
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/13/05 05:37 AM
If you grapple often enough against good guys everybody eventually has someone get double underhooks on them.
Posted by: Mu Ryuk
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/14/05 02:26 AM
Single underhook at an angle is probably the position I work for most in the clinch, aside perhaps from the "Muay Thai" clinch (both hands clasped behind the neck). An excellent techinque from this position is a very simple takedown called the slide-by.
When you create an angle, your opponent is virtually forced to try to face you. There are a variety of takedowns that can be done during this transition, but this is my favorite.
As your opponent is turning towards you, bend your knees, drop your arms to the back of your opponent's knees, and pin their arm with your head. From there, drive laterally and take side control/side mount.
I hope someone is able to put this to good use!
Posted by: kusojiji
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/16/05 12:28 PM
Quote:
If you grapple often enough against good guys everybody eventually has someone get double underhooks on them.
In the practice room lots of things happen when training to exhaustion, but if you let someone get double unders on you..well...that's pretty poor
Posted by: BigRod
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/16/05 12:46 PM
Quote:
if you let someone get double unders on you..well...that's pretty poor
Come on man...
No one has ever gotten double underhooks on you? Even the pros sometimes get double underhooked. That's why you learn counters.
Maybe you aren't working with people good enough to give you a challenge.
Posted by: kusojiji
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/16/05 01:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
if you let someone get double unders on you..well...that's pretty poor
Come on man...
No one has ever gotten double underhooks on you?
Every embarrassingly unlikely thing you can think of has happened to me at some point in practice, but no one has gotten double unders on me in competition since Jr High School (which was about one million years ago). Now, I don't compete very much these days so who knows what indignities age is holding for me, but the fact remains that if someone gets double unders on you, you have done something very wrong.
Posted by: Mu Ryuk
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/17/05 02:05 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
if you let someone get double unders on you..well...that's pretty poor
Come on man...
No one has ever gotten double underhooks on you?
Every embarrassingly unlikely thing you can think of has happened to me at some point in practice, but no one has gotten double unders on me in competition since Jr High School (which was about one million years ago). Now, I don't compete very much these days so who knows what indignities age is holding for me, but the fact remains that if someone gets double unders on you, you have done something very wrong.
Let's try to remember, MMA and straight Wrestling are two immensely different things.
Posted by: Fletch1
Re: The Underhook (Clinch) - 07/17/05 10:38 AM
Absolutely.
When you grapple, there is a compromise as far as striking and vice versa. We see this when pure strikers are unable to avoid being clinched, or even great grapplers get taken down while trying to strike.