Young man doing Tai Chi?

Posted by: BeANumberOneMan

Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 10:04 AM

I've been considering doing karate, but I've thought about it and that's not really what I want. I'm not looking for a fighting art. In truth, I just want something to help me relax and unwind.

I was thinking tai chi is exactly what I'm looking for. I am hesitant though... I am a twenty-two year old male, and I fear that everyone in the class with me would be at least three times my age. Would it be weird for a college-aged amateur bodybuilder to be taking tai chi with a bunch of senior citizens?
Posted by: fyastarter

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 10:21 AM

i'm 25 my friends are 25 and 27 we've been doing taiji for about a year, we aren't the youngest members of our class by a long way.

Go take a look.
Posted by: ThomsonsPier

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 10:23 AM

Go for it. You won't look odd; tai chi is more challenging than it looks. Even if it did look weird, why should you care?
Posted by: cxt

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 10:25 AM

Be

No offense but I think its "weird" that you would allow worries that you might look out of place keep you from doing something you want to try.

Even "weirder" from my perspective is that you don't even know if your going to look out of place at all----you presumably have not checked out a bunch of Taji schools/class....but yet you assume that other then yourself it will all be "senior citizens."

Maybe they will---but:

1-You don't actually know, because you haven't looked---if had you would not have to guess----its entirely possible that the class you like is peopled with young athletic and muscular students----maybe even "body builders" like yourself that are ALSO looking for something to help them "relax and unwind"......if you think it will help you....why would not OTHER people?

2-So its full of "senior citizens"---you, yourself just said your wanting something to help you relax and unwind---so why should you care about the age of the other students.

3-You might find that being a "body builder" you will stand out ANYWHERE you want to train---so are you going to let that stop you?

Don't take advice from your "fears"---find something you enjoy and see value in practicing-----don't allow your "fears" keep you from what you want to try.

If the teacher and students don't have a problem with you doing the class with them------there should be no reason you should have a problem with them.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 10:53 AM

I first went to Tai Chi when I was 23. It was like you described, I was the youngest person there by a country mile.

The issue I had was that in this particular class was that a lot of the older people seemed to be at it for social reasons as much as health reasons. They chatted with each other while we were doing forms, kept their mobile phones switched on in class, and didn't pay much attention to the teacher at times.

The difficulty was that because people went their for health reasons/social reasons/relaxation, it put my nose out of joint a bit. I went there to learn Taijiquan, whereas not everyone else was as interested as me! Personally I found it anything but relaxing, as the class was so informal as to lack any structure.

That was my experience. That said, I have visited a great Taijiquan class were the teacher was from China, and he had a relaxed class but still took teaching Tai Chi seriously, so no chatting or mobile phones etc...

Something else worth considering is that to fully learn Tai Chi, a person should learn both the health and martial parts of the art. That was the opinion of the aforementioned teacher. I believe he said that if Tai Chi wasn't "Gung" (sp), which I took to mean martial, then it wasn't Tai Chi. So it is worth finding a good teacher, as most places don't teach Tai Chi as a martial system.

Personally, I think that as a beginner, if a Tai Chi teacher cannot demonstrate martial application of Tai Chi, then I would be wary of them.

If you want to relax, yoga is a good bet. Though again, it depends on the class and or teacher.

Other Internal Chinese arts might be worth looking at, such as Bagua or Xingyiquan.

Something else you might want to consider is Aikido. Hands down it was the most relaxing martial art I ever did. They utilize a lot of Moksu (sp?) i.e. deep breathing techniques. The differential relaxation in Aikido is similar to IMA, and the idea of using relaxation instead of tension (as they do in so called "external" systems) may be what you are looking for.

If you still want to learn Tai Chi (I'm not saying you shouldn't BTW!) then make sure it is a good school.

If you tell us where you can travel to to train, then we can find some places for you to check out. Or if you find some local places to train that have websites, post them here and people can tell you what you think of them.
Posted by: fileboy2002

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 11:16 AM

It would only be "weird" if you secretly dislike older people and want to avoid them. Think of it as an opportunity. So much of the time, we live our lives in virtual age ghettos--along with racial/ethnic ghettos, class ghettos, lifestyle ghettos, etc. Relish this chance to spend real time with people different than you.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 11:21 AM

I took Tai Chi for a short time when I was 18. I recall my teacher, an African-American, pointing past the rows of young/old, male/female, multi-ethnic group...to an absorbed woman younger than me...and stating...'She is my best student.'

Don't let your fears/preconceived notions stop you from trying something new.
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 12:12 PM

Hello:

First things first, any prayer we can get you to SIGN your posts, in some manner pretty please???

Of course it would be weird. The question is whether those folks will practice the larger art (Tai-Chi Ch'uan aka the Grand Ultimate Fist Art) or the health art "Tai Chi"...

As a young man, likely you might want to explore classes where the larger art is taught. Remember do not confuse moving slowly as being weakness... Do not think that slow in practice means slow in usage.

Small movements done slowly are exhaustive because you are trying to attend to many, many huge and small details. To start think of the movements as itty-bitty squats under a light-medium weight... except that you are now that weight.

Have you looked around at the available classes? Internet searches, campus flyers, groups at the local church, etc. etc. You'll want to chat with the respective teachers watch a class or two see if theirs is an approach you will learn best from...

Jeff
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 12:48 PM

Actually, a lot of schools have designated senior classes these days, so maybe check that out. A lot of community programs also teach taiji to the elderly, so many of them seek instruction through these types of establishments.
Older folk are surprising too - I trained in BJJ with a guy who was almost 70 and he could hold his own.
IMO taiji will also be very helpful for your bodybuilding. It's probably important to keep your limbs flexible and supple with all that strain you'll be putting on them.
Posted by: BeANumberOneMan

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/18/08 02:04 PM

Wow, I'm surprised at how many responses I've gotten.

Maybe it would be more helpful if I described what I'm looking to get out of it. I have no use for fighting skills, so any kind of martial application is a non-issue for me.

Thanks to the anonymity of the Internet, I will say that in perfect honesty, I want to be able to go to the park in the morning with my shirt off and do some kind of cool-looking kata-type movements. Think Patrick Swayze from Roadhouse. Yoga would be inappropriate for this because of its unusual positioning.

You may want to write me off as some vain young kid who ought to grow up and know better, but before you do, know that I suffer from chronic joint pain, and I figure that karate would be too strenuous. I got into bodybuilding to rebuild my health. I figure if tai chi is doable for the arthritic eldery, I can do it even with my joint pain.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/19/08 10:30 AM

Tai Chi may very well help your health then. Again, if you give us a clue to where you can travel to train, we may be able to find some schools for you ro check out and give advice on schools that look suspect.


That said, if you want something just for "show" then Tai Chi or internal arts maybe aren't the way to go. To quote Mike Patterson "Where IMA (Internal Martial Arts) are concerned, feeling is believing". In other words they are called internal arts for a reason. Its about whats happening on the inside rather than the outside.

You have to decide what is more appropriate to your training: your health or doing moves that other people will consider "cool".

IMA are about what is going on inside, external factors e.g. how it "looks" have nothing to do with IMA. Maybe Tai Chi wouldn't be appropriate for you if this is what you are looking for.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/19/08 01:22 PM

Never seen roadhouse.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/19/08 01:57 PM

Quote:

Thanks to the anonymity of the Internet, I will say that in perfect honesty, I want to be able to go to the park in the morning with my shirt off and do some kind of cool-looking kata-type movements. Think Patrick Swayze from Roadhouse. Yoga would be inappropriate for this because of its unusual positioning.

You may want to write me off as some vain young kid who ought to grow up and know better, but before you do, know that I suffer from chronic joint pain, and I figure that karate would be too strenuous. I got into bodybuilding to rebuild my health. I figure if tai chi is doable for the arthritic eldery, I can do it even with my joint pain.




I applaud your honesty. Try it out and see if you like it.
Posted by: ShaoLimper

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/19/08 05:23 PM

Depending on the style of tai chi. Taijiquan [Chen Style Tai Chi] is a fighting art, literally traslated as Ultimate Fist. Yang style is not a fighting art, but is just as good for your health in the unified body and mind and spirit idea.
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/19/08 07:40 PM

Hello

<<Wow, I'm surprised at how many responses I've gotten.

It is always interesting what draws someones attention to a given thread. You've gotten some interesting responses.

<<any kind of martial application is a non-issue for me.

I too have virtually no usage in my life for "martial skills" being a necessity. However that being said, the intensity of that martial art practice(s) produce experiences of great and obscenely practical value but whether they are a byproduct or intentional function is a different debate.

Hatha-Yoga, another art/practice which is not quite what it appears on the surface. However if your goal is ~dating~ etceteria then hatha-yoga would be an excellent practice

There are many activities which by their perceived nature
many people write-off, unfortunately. Is there a diagnosis for your joint pain? Certainly there are methods of karate which will be too strenous, but guarantee you that is not the case for all of us.

Depends almost entirely upon the teacher (as always).
See whats easily available to you, let us know...

Jeff

You may want to write me off as some vain young kid who ought to grow up and know better, before you do, know that I suffer from chronic joint pain, and I figure that karate would be too strenuous. I got into bodybuilding to rebuild my health. I figure if tai chi is doable for the arthritic eldery, I can do it even with my joint pain.


Posted by: dandjurdjevic

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/20/08 06:13 AM

Quote:

You may want to write me off as some vain young kid who ought to grow up and know better, but before you do, know that I suffer from chronic joint pain, and I figure that karate would be too strenuous. I got into bodybuilding to rebuild my health. I figure if tai chi is doable for the arthritic eldery, I can do it even with my joint pain.




Your honesty is commendable. Chronic pain is hard to live with. If you find something to make you feel better about yourself, then go for it.

I too suffer from chronic joint pain. I still do karate, however I suffer after each class! I feel no such effects from taiji.

Like gym work, I suspect it will be okay for your body (I do both and find them to be an excellent combination).

Before my arthritis was under control it got to a point that all I could do was light aqua-aerobics. I was in the pool with a bunch of 65 year old women. It didn't phase me, nor should this phase you. And you'll be surprised who else is doing taiji. Look around at different schools if you like - you might find one with a higher number of "younger" students.

Good luck.
Posted by: Gavin

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/25/08 05:59 AM

Quote:

Yang style is not a fighting art





Pray tell why???? Also could you tell that to my Sifu coz he hits bloody hard which I really don't think is good for my health!
Posted by: trevek

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/25/08 05:13 PM

Quote:

Yang style is not a fighting art,




Like Gavin, I know folk who could convince you otherwise. Funny a not-fighting art uses so many weapons.
Posted by: Fisherman

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/28/08 11:08 AM

Quote:

Depending on the style of tai chi. Taijiquan [Chen Style Tai Chi] is a fighting art, literally traslated as Ultimate Fist. Yang style is not a fighting art, but is just as good for your health in the unified body and mind and spirit idea.




This appears to me to be an uninformed blanket statement. What kind of validation do you have to back up your statement?
Posted by: ashe_higgs

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/28/08 11:53 AM

Quote:

Taijiquan [Chen Style Tai Chi] is a fighting art, literally traslated as Ultimate Fist.




bzzzzz! not quite.

while chen style is generally considered the original style of taijiquan, all the five major family styles are still considered to be taijiquan.

AND "ultimate fist" is not quite the lit. translation. it's impossible to do a lit. translation of most CMA names, since any given word can have several meaning depending on the context, so some lit. translations might be "grand ultimate fist", "huge extreme fist", but a lit. translation is no good anyway, since in chinese, when you combine two different words into a combination like say "taiji" it takes on a whole new meaning.

for instance, "tian" can mean "heavan" or simply "sky" and "xia" can mean "dropping/moving down" or "below/under", but when taken together become "the whole world" even though the lit. translation of "tian xia" is "under heavan/below the sky" which doesn't make a whole lot of sense in most cases.

so in this case "taiji" becomes shorthand for an entire set of principles and a philosophy dealing with the cycles of change in nature (i.e. the alternation of yin and yang). while "quan" lit. means fist, it has the sense of "boxing" or "martial art" in the same way that "muay" means for "muay thai" or "thai boxing".

so, all together and in context taijiquan means something like "the martial art based on the principles and philosophy of the alternation of yin and yang", which is a mouthful and might as well be left simply as "taijiquan".
Posted by: ShaoLimper

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/29/08 02:39 AM

Okay! I stand corrected. Granted, at that time, I was not entirely awake.

Chen VS Yang. I know two senior practitioners of each style, and they both tell me that Checn is the combat applicable art, as where Yang is merely a form of meditation and benaficial to your health.

I admit I am taking what they say for granted, but I know that Chen style does indeed hurt! Yang style, I will say openly that is what I was told, be it fact or fiction.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/29/08 03:10 AM

Probably cos that's how a lot of people learn it and how it's marketed to many. Yang is probably the most widespread of the senior styles. With Chen, it is pretty hard in parts and not as soft as Yang is made out to be.

Also "Taoist Tai Chi" is based on Yang so there might be some confusion there as Taoist is a non-combat style.
Posted by: ShaoLimper

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/29/08 05:24 AM

Well, that is interesting! Regardless, if 'Pure' Yang style has the same body connections as Chen, then they are both an amazingly deadly art.

Thanks!
Posted by: trevek

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 09/29/08 07:15 AM

you're welcome.

With rgards to OP wanting to look good in the park, TC is done slowly so the chicks will have more time to check out your pecs.

I think Chen would suit you.
Posted by: uhhuh

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/31/08 06:37 PM

New here and new to chinese martial arts [just took my first wushu class two days ago and LOVED it] people really might surprise you. I first observed the class that I am taking now and my initial reaction was "oh crap there's a 60+ year old lady in it" which threw me off a little but, then I wrote it off as "oh well she's in tai chi" because my teacher knows many chinese MA. well when I went in for my first class I found myself asking HER questions haha and she really is a cool lady. I would say find a school and check it out you can probably get a free lesson/observation out of them. [actually they usually automatically offer you a free lesson if you inquire about the class] but like I said you might be surprised how much fun you have even if they are elderly people. [that might not even be the case they could very well be the same age as you]. If you want to do it in public in my personal opinion tai chi looks very cool the movments flow into each other and are really sweet looking in my opinion. So I guess my advice is 1.)Don't care so much about the age of the people in the class, worry about their character and how good the teacher is 2.)watch some videos about tai chi on youtube or something to get an idea what the movements are like. 3.) call up a few schools and inquire about price and if you can try a lesson out to see if its for you
remember if they are willing to let you try a free class you have nothing to lose but, a little bit of your time!

good luck with it and I hope you find a martial art that suits you !
Posted by: riggerrob

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/26/09 09:25 AM

I start Yang Taiji at a Parks and Rec class for several reasons: 1) I needed to fill my time as I am unemployed, 2) the health benefits, I suffer joint aches from the waist down, 3) have always loved MA but never involved in them. My class is full of little old ladies. I find it fun in that they are more then happy to have a young guy around (47 I am).
As I have progressed my Sifu is starting to explain the applications of this practice, not so the old ladies or myself can use them in fighting but because it is what it is. A healthy, productive, fighting style. He is also helping me on the side as I barter some work at his place for instruction time.
I cringe at the fact that someone wants to look good while working out in the park or anywhere for that matter. I think the essence of the practice will be lost in need to feed ones Id.

Please try it for your inner self, not the ego.

Just my two cents.

Peace, Rob
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/27/09 03:34 PM

Hi Guys - just picked up on this.... here's a part of an article I've recently written about Yang Tai Chi as a 'skirmish' art that might help, I think the full article appears in next month's Martial Arts Illustrated...

Quote:

The founder of the Yang style, Yang Lu Chan, was the son of a farmer who loved the Martial Arts and had studied Shaolin Hung Quan with a local instructor before studying in the Chen family village under Chen style Master Chen Chang Xin. Yang Lu Chan was his most talented student and eventually returned to his home village at Yung Nien where he taught for a living. He was undefeated locally and in his travels where he won many matches utilising his soft and yielding art that as a result became known as ‘mien quan’ (cotton boxing) or hua quan (neutralising boxing). ‘Cotton boxing’ because for the opponent, it was like putting their hands into soft cotton and finding a needle in the middle!

By the time he was middle aged Yang taught at the Imperial Court and was tested by experts many times and never defeated, this earned him the title ‘Yang the Invincible’. He became the martial arts instructor to the Shen Ji Battalion and taught in the Royal Households earning the title .Ba Yeh’ (Eight Lords) because eight princes studied under him.

Teaching at the Imperial Court was a grave responsibility in that he was obliged to teach well or it would be considered treason with a probable death sentence! It also gave Yang the opportunity to meet with and compare his skills with the best in the land.

Yang was a hard taskmaster to his three sons with one dying early, one attempting suicide and one frequently running away and attempting to become a monk. Eventually both remaining sons became masters in their own right and both taught at the Imperial Court.

‘Cotton boxing’ is an interesting term because it indicates where the vital secret of Yang Tai Chi Chuan lies. In combat the mind tends to be coarse and responds only to harsh and sudden movement ignoring the soft and sensitive. The Tai Chi practitioner develops the skill of ‘four ounces to move a thousand pounds’ and when the opponents mind is going coarse, his becomes more sensitive and works on a subliminal level neutralizing the opponents force with light touches, sticking, following, redirecting and controlling with power connected from the feet and legs up through the core, manipulated by the waist and out through he hands. The ‘soft’ strikes carry that same connected power that although deceptively soft, carries the ‘kick’ of a donkey!

It becomes a ‘skirmish art’ because the body moves in that framed, posturally aligned and internally connected manner and is able to repel attackers from any direction at any time. I remember when I talked about ‘fa jin’ being ‘like a whip’ to Ma Lee Yang she thought about it for a moment and then said that it was more like a ‘pin ball machine’. This troubled me for ages, as I couldn’t see her point until I grasped the double helix and the ability to bounce or send power to any point of the body and in any direction in an instant. A whip has vulnerable points in its’ movement and is committed – the pinball isn’t.

It makes the martial aspect of Tai Chi very different to that of most other martial arts. I don’t think there is a ‘best’ art, only the best art for the character of each student. It’s never the art, but the person that practices it that makes it efficient.

Good Yang style Tai Chi as a ‘skirmish’ art certainly suits doormen, security personnel and law enforcement officers. I have taught all 3 categories successfully for over 3 decades. Sometimes you have to search for the right instructor and art and not be put off or be influenced by others or by the first instructors you meet. It can take as much time and effort to find the right instructor as the actual training itself! People have often said to me “I always knew it was there in Tai Chi, it was just not easy to find”…..


Posted by: riggerrob

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/27/09 10:47 PM

Hey Bossman,

Nice article. It is much in line with the info I have read on other sites. Maybe you could help me find some good links to sound info as there is a lot of crap on the net as well. My Sifu is teaching me out of the book "Tai Chi, Ten minutes to Health". It is good for working on posture and form but I am looking for the rest of the story. I know there is more to Tai Chi then just being healthy.

I would love to read the rest of your article.

Peace, Rob
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/28/09 05:06 AM

There's a mass of info and mine and Gavin's (from this forum) blogs at http://themartialarchive.com/ there's also a lot of good taiji info at http://www.itcca.it/peterlim/index.htm.

After publication the article will appear on the Martial Archive.
Posted by: james d hooper

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 10/29/09 03:02 PM

...i began the study of taijiquan after 15 yrs study of various styles..wado ryu karate..wing chun..shaolin.etc...taijiquan helped tremendously in improving my knowledge..learning how to intercept..yield..lead and issue fa jing through tui shou is a great tool for anyone..and can benefit any art..
Posted by: kenposan

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 02/27/10 09:01 AM

I think saying Yang style is not a fighting art is like calling all TKD not a fighting art. It really depends on the teacher and their focus.

I studied Chang tai chi for a bit. It was deeply rooted in Yang and my instructor could have destroyed me, even with my nidan in karate.
Posted by: David Lee

Re: Young man doing Tai Chi? - 04/12/10 09:47 AM

You can do Tai-Chi, Xing-Yi, Bagua, or Liu He Ba Fa. These four are pretty good internal Kungfu. You might think it's a good exercise for health, but gradually you'll be excited by the rich contents and their amazing applications in a real fight. The ultimate goal of these internal Kungfu is to help you reach "Dao" or "Tao".