Learning from a beginner?

Posted by: Xaith

Learning from a beginner? - 12/03/05 03:05 PM

I think this is the first time I've posted in this forum, and it's been quite a while since I've posted at all. While I really enjoy the Chinese martial arts, my opportunity to study them, apart from philosophically, has been limited.

Right now, I study TKD and Hapkido because they are the only things available to me. Recently, I began to study Tai Chi in a club format. My knowledge of Tai Chi itself is very limited apart from the basic history.

The person who leads the club knows one form, and no applications. All we do is the one form repeatedly for 30-45 minutes once a week. I perform it more often on my own throughout the week.

My question is, am I doing myself more help or harm by learning a primarily internal art form from someone who, as she puts it, "still very much a beginner," and says that later on, you incorporate breathing, but she doesn't know how.

I understand that, because of the nature of Tai Chi, one can be a beginner for their entire life, but surely there's a point at which someone shouldn't teach at all, and I don't want to learn all the basics wrong if I continue Tai Chi later in life.

If it makes a difference at all, my laoshi is Chinese, and she what Tai Chi she knows in China.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/03/05 05:48 PM

Seems strange she's teaching if she doesn't know the stuff.

However, my sifu does know his stuff and for the first few weeks all I did was form.

Another point is whether her style of Tai Chi is actually based on combat. some aren't.
Posted by: Xaith

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/03/05 05:53 PM

I'm not paying for it. It's a professor at my college who leads us. She teaches Tai Chi for health benefit and not for self defense or combat. I'm doing it as a supplement to the rest of my training, none of which is internal.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/04/05 06:07 AM

Ah, I did Taoist Tai Chi, which is fitness only, and they spent most of the first three months teaching form only. After you know the form they start correcting you in the moves etc.

I found it relaxing and interesting for learning to move my body in different ways. trouble was I got frustrated cos I wanted MA action, so eventually I took up Chen. The exercise was useful and I was already familiar with some moves.

I don't think it'll hurt you.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/04/05 06:32 PM

I agree with Trevek. If you are doing it for fitness reasons, and you are getting a workout, then I see no harm in it.
Posted by: AiKiDo_Eldar

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/05/05 09:36 AM

hi all, I kinda live in Israel , and maybie any of u know bout some Dojo in Israel (:
Right now i'm learning AiKiDo, but i realy wanted to try Kung-Fu.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/05/05 03:02 PM

Ah, Chen - fitness purposes aside (all tai chi should be good for fitness) i think this is the most beneficial form I have ever been exposed to. Wudang comes in as a close second.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/05/05 04:46 PM

Got to admit, I was aching like hell after my first session. Even after 10 years of TKD, the TC is showing me what a clodhopper I am and how stiff I am.

My sifu also teaches Yang and White Crane KF, so I get a bit more than exercise.
Posted by: BaguaMonk

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/07/05 06:34 PM

Just learn the form. I knew a lady at a community college who died recently. But she taught Tai chi for health, and basic push hands..but her focus was not martial arts, nor was she good at it. But the energy work we did was fabulous, and it helps greatly in ANY martial art.

It might not be the real deal, but the energy and health benefits are always worth it. Especially for free. Honestly, I'm considering going to another class that is more energy focused, because mine is too form/fight focused. (so I go to both at same time).
Posted by: kronin

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/22/05 01:33 PM

Quote:

I think this is the first time I've posted in this forum, and it's been quite a while since I've posted at all. While I really enjoy the Chinese martial arts, my opportunity to study them, apart from philosophically, has been limited.

Right now, I study TKD and Hapkido because they are the only things available to me. Recently, I began to study Tai Chi in a club format. My knowledge of Tai Chi itself is very limited apart from the basic history.

The person who leads the club knows one form, and no applications. All we do is the one form repeatedly for 30-45 minutes once a week. I perform it more often on my own throughout the week.

My question is, am I doing myself more help or harm by learning a primarily internal art form from someone who, as she puts it, "still very much a beginner," and says that later on, you incorporate breathing, but she doesn't know how.

I understand that, because of the nature of Tai Chi, one can be a beginner for their entire life, but surely there's a point at which someone shouldn't teach at all, and I don't want to learn all the basics wrong if I continue Tai Chi later in life.

If it makes a difference at all, my laoshi is Chinese, and she what Tai Chi she knows in China.



Doing the form over and over again is the most important thing. In many classes they donīt teach you the breathing, but it comes eventually. Thatīs why most teachers donīt worry about it while they are trying to get you to know the moves. I come from another school. I do Tai Chi for health and a lot of Chi Kung. I have done enough other arts to not really need to go the self defense route. During the Chi Kung one learns the breathing techniques that go along with Tai Chi. If you practice the chi kung in the class before doing the form, you will develop the breathing technique much faster. There is only one rule, that isnīt true all of the time, of course. Inhale for movements going up or out, exhale for those going down or moving in. The breathing, however, is much more subtle than that and can only be learned for yourself as you continue to do the exercises. In time you will discover that the breathing comes because it is the most efficient type of breathing to do during the form.
Posted by: kronin

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/22/05 01:38 PM

Quote:

Just learn the form. I knew a lady at a community college who died recently. But she taught Tai chi for health, and basic push hands..but her focus was not martial arts, nor was she good at it. But the energy work we did was fabulous, and it helps greatly in ANY martial art.

It might not be the real deal, but the energy and health benefits are always worth it. Especially for free. Honestly, I'm considering going to another class that is more energy focused, because mine is too form/fight focused. (so I go to both at same time).



The truth is that you really never perfect the form. I have been doing the Yang Short Form for almost 12 years, the Yang Sword Form for about 5 and a new form of Tai Chi called the Infinite Nine for 2 or 3 years, which I teach ever so often. You just keep going deeper and deeper into each form. You could do one form all your life and never get the full benefits. Chi Kung helps you know how to. Thatīs why I like doing it so much, especially Tai-Chi Ball Chi-Kung. It is chi-kung that includes all of the foundational movements of every Chinese based MA. I have never taught it though, because it is really difficult to find people who want to go that deep into the MAs nowadays.
Posted by: eyrie

Re: Learning from a beginner? - 12/22/05 07:43 PM

Just to throw a spanner in the works....

It's not the form, but what you do WITHIN the form that's the important (and usually missing) bit.

FWIW