Kungfu works

its down to the instructor or the student not the art

But with only ingenuity and creativity, a blunt stick of metal can still leaves booboos. or what was the definition of "work? "

Well it's a hard question to anwser because i think most people misunderstand how martial arts were ment to be used in combat. for instance i don't think that super low stances or pre-set movements were ment to be used in actual combat i personally think that those things were only created to learn and practice in a simple and practical way also i think things like that are mostly for conditioning the body not so much to be used in combat. i think probably in combat they used their technices but in a free form sort of fluid way like they should be used. people watch to many movies. and people pay to much attention to movies and what they hear instead of useing their common sense and logical reasoning. but of course these are how i believe things, so it's just my opinions but many opinions can be true. i look at things in a very realistic and logical way so i bring that same train of thought into the way i do martial arts. so what i am really saying is basiclly wushu works depending on the person and how they adapt their wushu to work in real life and not how they see it in movies and or forms. I myself consider the way i think to be of jeet kuen do logic. i learn something and adapt it to work how i need it to not how someone else thinks it should be. so in that way i'm a non traditionalist when it comes to martial arts. i believe things can and should always be improved not stay the same much like how some people blindly followe styles and they don't think for them selves. and when i say that i only mean to whom it applies so take no offence with what i say after all this is a place that opinions are surposed to be shared. anyway people can take things how they want to i just wish people would be more evolving and adaptive. so that's some of my opinion on this subject i hope it helped or contributed in some contructive way. ok ttyl and peace to all.

i think of it this way; if karate and kung fu didn't work, would you know about them?

You think about it that way and over look all logic of practical use just because they've been around so long people are blinded and believe the hype and the fiction that is traditional martial arts. no offence intended this is just how i see it because i look at things in a very realistic way. i think you should read over my last post as a whole and then the details then really try to consider and understand what i was saying but that's completely up to you. to me it's no secret that traditional martial arts are not that effective in real life in a self defence sort of way. now if you simplify these traditional martial arts down to the most basic and simple movements and idea's i believe they can work realisticly that way but not traditionally of course sometimes people can make them work in surtain conditions but i think 9 out of 10 times it will fail them in combat if used in a traditional manner. people are to attached emotionally and mental to their martial arts to see the truth and really understand. for instance and i am only talking about for self defence real life situations anyway for instance you take a two year pratitioner of tai chi, or let's say animal kung fu such as dragon, crane, snake, you know what i mean, anyways put this kung fu martial artist up against a two year kickboxer, i'm willing to bet that the kickboxer wins 8 or 9 out of 10 trys. the reason for this is that the kickboxer is useing the most basic and simple of technics and in martial arts we all know that simplicity equals effectiveness in combat. and if simplicity equals effectiveness in combat i would have to say that kickboxing or boxing would be the most effective tool for self defence of course you could add in some moves to give you more angles to work from but not many because all angles are basiclly the same anyway you either punch the person or you block it doesn't require much thought or you can always evade which isn't that easy in combat either so i go with aggressive offence, attack hard and fast before he does. and i am not at all for low stances their ok for building endurance but should never really be used in real life combat. i mean it's like this, yes you might could make some kung fu styles work ok if your good enough at them but even then their still unrealistic because they waste to much energy on useless technics. and i'm not saying that you can't win a street fight useing wushu but i am saying that it greatly lowers your chances. but it depends on the person your fighting to, if the person your fighting is ok at boxing then kung fu i don't think will be very effective on the streets but when i say kung fu i mean the traditional methods if you simplify your traditional martial arts and carve them in a way that makes them more suitable for the street then yes they can work effectively that way. and when i said all this i was talking about traditional kung fu. and i mean no offence but logically and realisticlly i've used such technics in real life in sparring and their not very effective a simple jab or hook would work much better. for instance you could take a traditional martial art and modify it and simplify it for self defence but you would need to costume modify it spesificly for self defence use then it could work well. things that do not change with time to adapt and reform should not remain they should be forgotten and something more pratical and more effective should be put in their place. but if you just practice tma for fun or you think they look cool by all means keep doing so but if you practice tma for self defence and nothing more then i believe that your causing a great injustice for yourself and for today's martial arts. because you must change with change. things that do not change with change become ineffective and useless. i do not have anything against tma's i love the tma movies and their fun to practice but for self defence reasons they are not good at all, unless you modify them for today's needs. the thing is on the streets if everyone used the same martial art you used to fight with they might would be effective but that's just not the case people don't use tma's on the streets. anywho i hope i didn't offend and i think if you realisticly and in a logical way try to understand everything i've said then i believe you would get my point. well peace to all and godspeed.

etaks,

Woah! Please put some capitals, clear sentences and some paragraph breaks in your posts.

Reading what you just wrote is like looking at the ingredients list on a bottle of cleaing solution.

-B

Yes it can work. As many of us have said, its all about the person it molds you into, and wether your able to react naturally in a fight-or flight (freeze) situation. Its not about the pre-set techniques embedded into your muscle memory, its about being natural and calm (being able to react).

perhaps you two just are not good readers. i had no problem reading it but that's just me. but it seems you used my bad writting as an excuse to pay no attention to the importantance of my post and well that's sad. so i wish you all the best and hope that tma's work for you.

Of course you could read it, you knew what was in it!

I thought it interesting but I too found it hard to read. I have to teach students to use paragraphs etc and one of the reasons is just that.

Don't forget, these are only small letters.

I don't understand why you have this idea that TMA never change. If you look at the continuing amount of 'new' styles in Karate, KF, TKD, JJ et al then it is obvious such things are evolving. Even if you look at old photos of things like Shotokan or Judo, you find that stances and positions have changed over 50 years.

Low stances have their uses but you need to know when to use them. If you have just thrown someone and his mate comes for you, you might find yourself needing to adopt a low based stance (for instance).

The thing is many of the arts we now practice have been stripped down and simplified and now people are trying to find out things that have been lost because of the stripping down. In many cases this is where cross-training comes in, trying to fill in gaps which a system may have once had.

Finally, it is not a case of tailoring an art for SD, it is about training in that art with SD in mind.

I've practiced both Gung-Fu/Kung-Fu/Gong-Fu (truthfully, I'm not sure how to spell it. So uhm... Whichever one! Heh.)and Karate.

I can honestly say both work equally well.

As my previous Sifu said. "A living thing must adapt and change, grow and shed dead cells. This is the same with martial arts."

A traditional martial art, Gung-Fu, Baqua, Tai-Qi, Karate... All of these things have evolved from one thing to another. They didn't just appear out of no where... Shira-Te and Naha-te are just two of the fighting stylings that created Karate... I don't know the background of the Chinese arts but I know they didn't just appear.

And I agree Etak, please break up the paragraph a little. Its helps to get your point across if you give it a professional or at least cleaner appearance. Makes it much easier for the person to read, and understand.

I think the people who say that TMA's don't work are the ones who don't understand the basis of their function isn't to suddenly become a fighting machine after 5 months... But, some people won't be happy with that.

Thats why there are McDojo's.

Syntrax

Many people in high school say all kinds of stupid and ignorant things.

Mainly because they are still in high school--not the most stable of times if memory serves.

Its as good a time as any however to decide to do things you enjoy despite what the crowd "says."

Does karate and kung fu work?

Of course they do--unless you run into someone better.

If they're better and they also do KF/Karate then can we say KF/Karate don't work?

i see what you're saying here but don't think that just because someone will practice a wide arcing movement with a flowery name will use it on the street. anyone with any common sense in a tma isn't going to do some large movements, they'll stick with the most trained basic blocks, punches and kicks they know best that are locked into muscle memory.

oh and kickboxing is based on karate i beleive, they just don't train the more complex moves in the kyu grades the way some karates might. i don't think i'm wrong in saying that wushu wasn't intended for the street but it can work as you said. tai chi is also very powerful, they may practise slowly but its prety well known that they move quickly when they need to, it just takes time to get there.

you need to remember that you have your whole life ahead of you.

I remember teaching some young people self defense moves. These were really deadly moves that could break people´s spines and things. Some of them said that the moves wouldn´t work because they would just pull away as I was about to break their neck. I commented that I wouldn´t be doing it in slow motion, I wouldn´t be telling them what move I was doing and I wouldn´t be doing it gently if I was really defending myself.

The truth is that these arts were designed to hurt and maim people. Someone who is trying to show off with Kung Fu sparring with a boxer or something is not really using the art in the correct way. Someone who is trying to street fight without just ending it by destroying their apponent is not using the art the right way.

The truth is that you don´t fight once you learn these things unless their is no other option. When that is the case you go for broke and hope you don´t end up in jail.

I notice that the most devastating techniques are really quite simple to do and don't require much skill. But it require a high level of skill from the martial artist to end a fight with a submission technique. I think submission techniques are the best way to go.

Guy

What do you do after the guy has submitted?

I let him go.

Guy

How far do you let him go before you turn your back on him?

Guy,

thanks, it was an interesting illustration. I have never (touchwood) been in that position, but I always wonder what I was supposed to do with someone once I got them in a hold if I didn't think they'd be nice when I let them go.

TREV:-)

I dunno what your schoolmates are trying to say here - Kung Fu and Karate are extremely general terms. Are they trying to say asians don't know how to fight? What's next, black people can't read? That's just as absurd a statement.

Just what do they think is effective in combat? Stuff they made up? Tell them most Kung Fu techniques were developed by the Chinese military, who, unlike them, are actually adults. Many nations(most nations if I'm not mistaken) teach fighting techniques very similar to Kung Fu and Karate, some are even derived from systems of Kung Fu and Karate.